chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Link: http://scca.com/documents/Fastrack/0...k-feb-solo.pdf

This class proposal seems better structured than the previous one. The real "losers" here are the BS/CS crowd, but these classes are so close in performance that combining them makes sense imho.

With a change of venue to Lincoln, NE and a possible return to faster, higher speed courses the RX-8 could fare well in this "new" CS (if it happens in 2010 yada yada).

tomsn16

Other than reducing the number of classes by one WHAT IS THE PURPOSE of this proposal?

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I don't see a reduction... We get a new, faster AS to replace what becomes BS. Still the same number of classes. It seems clear to me by the big numbers in SS/AS that people want to go fast, another class in that range could be very popular.

I know my short list of cars for 2010 would include a 996 911 for the new AS.

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

Exactly - same number of classes, but with three faster stock class at the top.

PedalFaster

993 Turbo would make mincemeat out of a 996, but I can't see that part of the proposal seeing the light of day. I wrote to the SAC suggesting that the 993 Turbo go into the current Super Stock, but that was rejected, so it wouldn't make sense to create a slower class then put the car there.

tomsn16

Thanks,now I understand.Somehow I missed the NEW AS part.
Who knows it might work but it looks like a long shot to me at the expense of two healthy classes,BS&CS. Not sure which would be best car for NEW AS....maybe the good ole RX7?

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

...or the '09+ Cayman S. Has a limited slip, slight bump in hp and some wide Carrera wheels as factory options.

tomsn16

Lots of high dollar choices that would all be fun but they rarely show up in big enough numbers to support a class.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I hear the PSM/TC/WhateverNanny does not like much slip angle, and will turn back on when driven in anger.

tomsn16

If true the new Cayman S is toast for autoX.

SilverSurfer

Is that new? Because the 986S doesn't do that-I've spun my brother's numerous times.

mwood

Jim, I think the C5 will easily run with any of the higher dollar cars and C5's are, well, RX8 type money

Zoom4Three

And where does the 370Z fit into this puzzle ?

balefire

iTrader: (2)

I would love to as well, but the exploding engine worries me.

+1. How does the 993 Turbo make sense for AS? It's rare, costs a fortune to buy (its the last air cooled turbo), costs a fortune to maintain, and would crush the 996 C2 non turbo.

Otherwise, I'm in full agreement with the proposal.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Those were the reports I heard from Donnie Barnes and his co-driver when they ran one a few years back.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I run with PCA on a regular basis here, and have not heard these stories. Even if it were true, that would just make it more like an RX-8.

balefire

iTrader: (2)

At least with the RX8, you can pretty much avoid engine catastrophy by getting a manual and redlining it frequently.

The 996 3.4 and even the 3.6 probably have at least a 5% engine failure rate ... at least thats the best guess on rennlist. Conversely, the 996 is very very cheap now due at least in part to the RMS/IMS 3.4L engine failures. 25k for a 996 3.4/3.6 + 10k gamble for an engine replacement.

tomsn16

After a little study I think you may be correct,the C5 could easily be the choice for the top drivers should the NEW AS happen in 2010.

mwood

I asked that question, also, on the sccaforums board...no real answer...yet...

Maybe it'll be the first two seat FS car?

shipdriver

Are they even considering keeping FDs in SS? The SS class has passed them by with Lotuses and GT3 Cups and C6 Z06s. FDs aren't competitive until they are modded out to SM2 these days (well maybe they can be with a superior driver at local events). They should move down to AS just to be somewhat competitive and at AS they still won't be world-beaters.

EDIT: I wrote this thinking more autocross vice racing.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

At least try to be accurate when you are painting your picture of doom and gloom. The 996 GT3 is not a cup car, and not even the current generation GT3. The C6 Z06 has shown to be no better than the C5 Z06.

I hope you are not talking about moving the FD down to the current AS we have today? Moving the RX-7 down to the current AS you simply turn the clock back to Pre-Z06 days, when the RX-7 had its way with the C4 and every other car in what was SS.

I am fine with tossing the FD a bone and including it in the 2010 proposal, but screw messing up a good class (current AS) otherwise.

shipdriver

That's just it. How many 15 year old cars are on the SS list today? Few. FDs are competing with newer cars with much more contact patch, newer suspensions, and more power/torque (especially at low rpms in those hairpins). My basis for saying this is personal observations at events (albeit local) and more importantly with results published in Sportscar magazine over the last few years. In 1995, they cleaned up but they haven't been successful in a while. If you are looking for a car today to win the SS class, you don't get an FD. I can see an FD beating Lotuses and Z06s with inferior drivers, but equal driver vs. equal driver the Lotuses and Z06s will have the advantage. SM2 is a different story- that might as well be the Spec FD class, just as BS is sometimes seen as a Spec RX-8 class. Believe me, I don't say this lightly because I am a former FD owner (and autocrosser) and I dearly love those cars.

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

I have had four C4s and an FD, spent many years in the old SS and AS classes. If you put the FD with the C4, S2K, etc in the current AS, the class will be done. The FD was, and still is faster than the cars in there now - that is why it would be a good fit IF this 2010 change happened.

btw the FD was not hot stuff in just 95'. The FD won AS 92-94 and was then moved to SS, where it won (over the C4 & C5) 95-99. It was still in the running in 00' as well.

shipdriver

EDITED: Double Post

shipdriver

I think then that we are actually on the same page. In the proposed change, I would definitely move it down to AS with the Cayman S's et al. Under current rules, I see it as a tweener car betw. SS and AS (which is not a good place to be in class-based competition). If putting it in AS rekindles some of its past glory, I have no problems with that. Of course, if you do standard reliability mods on an FD (which one probably should for such an 'experienced' car), it's in at least ASP anyways (even if power gains are negligible at best- the downpipe in place of the pre-cat will do that off the bat- and that's not even mentioning such massive power-adders like aluminum radiators).
In the end, sanctioning body rules have rarely been the friend of rotary-engined cars (cough) rev limits on Grand-Am GT RX-8s (cough).