marka

Howdy,

I've been reading and searching for the past couple days, but still have some questions and haven't really seen any "this is how you should setup your CS/BS car" threads. For you folks that have or had BS/CS cars, any chance you'd be willing to post up your setups?

Some particular questions / guesses... All of this will be for an '05 base model setup for RTR.

Alignment: From what I can tell, I want ~ -1.6 or so deg up front, max caster I can get with that, and a touch of toe out. Rear probably -1.5 or so and a touch of toe in.

Front bar: Sounds like most folks are running stock or slightly stiffer? Can I get stiff enough adding a hole to the stock front bar?

Wheels: I've not seen anything 18x8 in the 45 - 50 mm offset range that seems like a huge obvious win. OZ whatevers around 17 lbs for $400ish each, Enkei whatevers around 18 lbs for $300ish each, and tirerack's house brand around 20 lbs for $165ish each. Anything else I should look at?

Exhaust: Looks to be mostly about weight savings. Is there a goto single exit exhaust that isn't horrifically loud / droney / hateful for street use? I see the Racing Beat RX-8 Race Exhaust... Are there others I should be looking at?

Ignition: Its unclear to me if the BHR stuff has a performance benefit, new to new. Will I see an improvement compared to new OEM ignition?

Shocks: Is there a stock class legal option that doesn't suck and that has at least an adjuster I can get to in the rear without removing the spring? Remote adjuster would be even better. Lee @ Koni told me an external rebound addition only would be ~$200 and full DA conversion ~$500 each. What other options should I be looking at in the $350+ per corner range? Any issues with OTS koni valving?

Brakes: Any advantage to be gained playing with compounds front vs. rear? Any issues with ice mode or whatever for the ABS system that I need to know about? I tend to like fairly mild brake pads vs. super grabby stuff.

Tires: RTR specific obviously but in looking at the various options I see lots of manufacturers have a 255/35-18 that 25" OD (like the 285/30-18 A6) The 245/40-18 tires are 25.7" OD. I think the extra gearing is a step in the right direction for an RTR car, but I'm not sure if I'll give up grip (as compared to a 245/40-18 or 225/45-18) squeezing the tire on the rim. Stock class here, of course, so wider rims aren't an option.

Harnesses: You guys that use the "jerk the seatbelt, move the seat forward, sacrifice a chicken, make sure its tuesday" stuff can ignore this one... :-) Any issues with CG locks in these cars? Or failing that, is there anything that gets in the way or I need to care about for a stock-legal lap belt mounting? I think I saw some recommendations to drill / tap one of the seat mounts to 7/16-20 and use an eye bolt with clip in ends... That doesn't sound all that legal to me and I'd be worried about compromising the seat mount. I suppose I could make my own eyebolt though, if there's no plastic trim crap in the way? How have you folks that have done it, done it?

Appreciate any feedback. Really appreciate anyone that's willing to share their current setup.

Thanks!

Mark

edit: Oh yeah. Its been a hundred years since I've been on the Mazda motorsports program... Anything weird about it now? Or is it still "goto url that Google will find for you, follow instructions there" thing?

IHitCones

I'll take a stab at this, based on using 285 hoho's:

Alignment: From what I can tell, I want ~ -1.6 or so deg up front, max caster I can get with that, and a touch of toe out. Rear probably -1.5 or so and a touch of toe in.
You should be able to get 2 or closer to that in the front, yes on the max caster and toe out in the front is good but how much is up to you. This is with the Koni yellows, probably won't happen with the stock shocks. For the front toe out, I have run between an 1/8 and 1/4 total. Most run 0.5 degree less rear camber in the rear based on what you can get out the front and most do run a little toe in.

Front bar: Sounds like most folks are running stock or slightly stiffer? Can I get stiff enough adding a hole to the stock front bar? Yes, drill a hole, test and see what you like.

Wheels: I've not seen anything 18x8 in the 45 - 50 mm offset range that seems like a huge obvious win. OZ whatevers around 17 lbs for $400ish each, Enkei whatevers around 18 lbs for $300ish each, and tirerack's house brand around 20 lbs for $165ish each. Anything else I should look at? Those are the high points. Discontinued SSR that are +48 and 16lbs? can be found used for $$$.

Exhaust: Looks to be mostly about weight savings. Is there a goto single exit exhaust that isn't horrifically loud / droney / hateful for street use? I see the Racing Beat RX-8 Race Exhaust... Are there others I should be looking at? Can't help here, I built an Isley exhaust (search for it) not hateful, but I'm probably going deaf.

Ignition: Its unclear to me if the BHR stuff has a performance benefit, new to new. Will I see an improvement compared to new OEM ignition? I would just carry an extra set of Mazda coils if this worries you.

Shocks: Is there a stock class legal option that doesn't suck and that has at least an adjuster I can get to in the rear without removing the spring? Remote adjuster would be even better. Lee @ Koni told me an external rebound addition only would be ~$200 and full DA conversion ~$500 each. What other options should I be looking at in the $350+ per corner range? Any issues with OTS koni valving? For off the shelf adjustables you can go Koni, Tokico or go custom. Koni's have been the choice, some like the DA, others the OTS. Its more preference then anything else.

Brakes: Any advantage to be gained playing with compounds front vs. rear? Any issues with ice mode or whatever for the ABS system that I need to know about? I tend to like fairly mild brake pads vs. super grabby stuff. Have not tested anything but have been very happy with HPS all around, the brakes on the RX-8 are excellent.

Tires: RTR specific obviously but in looking at the various options I see lots of manufacturers have a 255/35-18 that 25" OD (like the 285/30-18 A6) The 245/40-18 tires are 25.7" OD. I think the extra gearing is a step in the right direction for an RTR car, but I'm not sure if I'll give up grip (as compared to a 245/40-18 or 225/45-18) squeezing the tire on the rim. Stock class here, of course, so wider rims aren't an option. No help.

Harnesses: You guys that use the "jerk the seatbelt, move the seat forward, sacrifice a chicken, make sure its tuesday" stuff can ignore this one... :-) Any issues with CG locks in these cars? Or failing that, is there anything that gets in the way or I need to care about for a stock-legal lap belt mounting? I think I saw some recommendations to drill / tap one of the seat mounts to 7/16-20 and use an eye bolt with clip in ends... That doesn't sound all that legal to me and I'd be worried about compromising the seat mount. I suppose I could make my own eyebolt though, if there's no plastic trim crap in the way? How have you folks that have done it, done it? No help.


edit: Oh yeah. Its been a hundred years since I've been on the Mazda motorsports program... Anything weird about it now? Or is it still "goto url that Google will find for you, follow instructions there" thing? Nope just sign up and send results from two events and you are in.

Basically if you keep up on the maintenance items, get some shocks and get it aligned you should be good to go, there really isn't any special sauce, IMHO.

BRODA

iTrader: (7)

This is coming from an STX guy, so take this with a grain of salt... but I'd say keep the tires short for a gearing advantage. The Conti DW's and Michelin PSS are both available in 245/35/18, which might be the ideal size. Unfortunately, Star Specs, RS3's, R1R's, AD08's, etc are not available in that size, which leaves you with options that are either too tall or (potentially) too wide (for an 8" wheel).

Good luck, and welcome.

JByers

Welcome Mark! Whose RX8 are you looking at?

<---- imprttuner88 on the "other" board you would know me from

BigT4203

iTrader: (1)

I used a CG-Lock in my AutoX event today, seems to work pretty well compared to driving without it. I think it helps keep you attached to your seat as best as you can get without getting a full harness.

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

I am one of the weirdos who runs zero rear toe (this year), or even some toe out (previously...IIRC, 1/16" total).

I am very happy w/ my DA-converted Konis. One plus is that the rear rebound is now via the "standard" top adjuster, so I just need to drop the assembly (and not even all the way out) to get to it. That said, I set it at a TnT and have left it. I haven't looked seriously into building a remote adjuster for them, although I think it can be done.

No issues w/ brakes...none of that ice mode nonsense. I also have the HPS's and like them a lot. They are not as grabby as I would prefer, but they sound like the droid you're looking for.

I have a Scroth 4-point harness (mostly b/c it came with my codriver). I do like it, but the cloth seats hold you pretty well and it's probably not necessary. My codriver had leather seats and the harness was a must have.

I'm happy with my BHR coils, if only b/c it's one less thing to worry about. I didn't notice any performance improvement, but the "random misfire" I saw in late sessions at track days with the stock coils appears to be gone.

Lots of weight to be saved with the exhaust; if you want to run it on the street the Isley version might be a good bet.

marka

Howdy,

I'll post a WTB thing in the classifieds but...

I'm officially looking for stock class RX-8 parts if anyone has some or knows of some. Specifically:

Wheels (ideally OZ or other lightweight stock legal 18x8 wheels, but would probably buy another set of stock wheels if cheap)

Shocks (OTS Konis or even better DA converted Konis would be awesome)

Exhaust (something lighter and street liveable. I'll probably be doing an "Isley exhaust" otherwise, so if someone had a stock pre-muffler pipe laying around I'd love to get it too)

Misc other stuff:

CG Lock or other "easy to live with on the street" harness option.
Front bar... I'm planning on drilling another set of stiffer holes on the stock bar but if someone had one already done or whatever...

Thanks!

Mark

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I know of a set of SSRs ...

I have an OE front bar that was put in a press to further flatten the ends and then has two additional sets of stiffer end link position holes added in a drill press. Most people just hand drill one set of holes in fubar style.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

plenty of GM coils have failed too, it is not one less thing to worry about

Orthonormal

Check baautox.com and sccaforums.com, Aaron Breitbach had a set of Koni Sports for sale. Also, there have been a couple sets of OZs up for sale within the last couple months in the classisfieds here.

JByers

Mark,

Have you bought this car yet? If not, what are you waiting on? If so, where are the obligatory new car pics?



<--yes, I'm impatient.....

marka

Howdy,

Oh! Yeah, I bought it. '05 base model / no options. 77k miles. All stock except for SS brake lines that I need to remove.







I don't have any "good" pics. That middle one though is a pretty strong reason for why we went this way.

Mark

fossumja

iTrader: (4)

And the 3rd one is not!!!

JByers

Very nice Mark! I approve lol

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

Any part can (and eventually will) fail...of course. One less piece of "routine" maintenance; I'm not thinking about how I'll need to buy new coils in 20,000 (now 10,000) miles.

marka

Howdy,

So, ran the car today in the form I'll take it to Nationals, except that I still need to swap out the SS brake lines for stock.

Basic setup was:

Front: -1.6 deg, 0.1 deg toe out. ~ 7 deg caster (not entirely sure this was remeasured after the camber was adjusted, but also not sure if that matters). Hotchkis MX-5 adjustable front bar. Koni Sports

Rear: -1.1 deg, 0 toe, koni sports @ ~75% stiff.

Michelin PSS 245/35-18 tires

Clip in 3" lapbelt using standard forged eyebolts in the stock seat belt locations. Custom spacer on the buckle mount.

On a mostly non-transitional course on a lower grip asphalt lot, we ended up at 42 psi front, 38 psi rear, 1.5 turns from full soft on the front Konis, & full soft on the front bar.

The PSS's seemed to like heat... Grip went up noticeably between first and second run and we got them very hot without them falling off much if at all.

We tried pressures ranging from 32/28 all the way to 46/38. Settled back on 42/38 that we started with, but it seemed more about feel vs. anything detectable on the timer. The lower pressures felt a little more mushy.

Tried front shock settings of full soft, one turn from full soft, and 1.5 turns from full soft. Didn't make a hell of a lot of difference to either of us really, which maps to what I've felt before on non-c5 Koni sports where it seems like playing with the **** doesn't really do a hell of a lot.

Tried the bar in the middle and softest positions... At the middle position it seemed a little more pushy immediately after turn in. Full soft, the front tried to hang more immediately after turn in. Stability mid corner & exit was similar with both.

Overall, it didn't seem to do anything dumb, was fairly straightforward to drive, no big issues I saw. I'd love to be able to get more front camber as tire temps showed us to be working the outside edge pretty hard, but it doesn't seem like its there. I suppose I can try the "loosen it all, tension it, and tighten it all back up" thing, but I'm gonna need more motivation to want to screw with it.

So... We'll see what its like at Nationals on concrete. I'll be taking the stock bar with me, just in case the car tightens up more.

Also... I freaking hate the flat metal Koni adjuster for the front. Holy hell does that thing suck to use. Does anyone make something that doesn't suck / has a bigger diameter? I think I'm just going to start popping off the strut tower bar and using a regular Koni dial if not.

Mark

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

just set the tool in place and turn it with a small flat blade screwdriver using the outer slots, n00b

those tires are good in the rain, but you are giving up a bunch of performance in the dry compared to others

marka

Howdy,

Have you done any testing with them? The only comparison test I've seen was C&D, which put them just below the AD08 and ahead of the RS3 in the dry. Don't remember if the Dunlop was in the test or not.

The other thing is they come in this 245/35-18 size, which the others don't. But if the overtiring worries are true, maybe I'd do just as well with a 225/40-18?

Mark

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

on an 8" rim you are probably right about using a 225/40 instead

The Michelin PSS has some serious tread grooves; great for evacuating water, not so great for total contact patch area. I'm not buying them being better than the RS3 in the dry, unless it was cool and the tires aren't hot. The RS3 excels in high heat situations, but the Dunlop beats the RS3 in cooler temps. The RS3 needs a lot more camber to get the most out of it ...


.

marka

Howdy,

Looks like the test results are online now...

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...res-tested.pdf

Dunlop was in there too.

If the RS3's like camber, I dunno that they'd be a good choice. Tire temps seemed to show the car really would have liked more front camber, but we also weren't working on a skidpad or anything.

edit: I should note... I have absolutely NO clue if there was some flaw in the testing or whatever. IIRC it was done at and by Tirerack folks, which made me trust it a little more, but I don't trust it as much as an article done by GRM or Andy or whatever.

Mark

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

the details matter, people looking for simple answers can't be bothered with the details

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

scrubbed in my PSS rain tire set this weekend, not sure what they were smoking but I want some ...

Orthonormal

Mark, it seems like the Koni adjusters don't do much at the low end of the range. All the action seems to start at 1 turn from full stiff.

For what it's worth, I finally got mine on the car and it seems to ride just fine with all four set to full stiff. Noticeably stiffer than the stock shocks, but not any worse than the S2000.

tpdrx8

Looks like my DW's are still a good choice for a street/rain tire combo.

I sure like the way they work on the street!

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

IMO the PSS is a better choice, but my limited experience is that still doesn't grip as well as the best STX tire compounds in dry conditions on concrete

It does communicate it's dry grip level extremely well, which might make it faster for a less experienced driver or a vehicle with suspension limitations. This may be why it came out on top in the TR test.


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