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Well Trever @ MCS just called me and after discussing it he thinks it can be done with standard parts. I just need to send some pics and measurements to confirm. Will try to do this week, but it might be next weekend. Been meaning to do this for a long time and appreciate this thread for motivating me into action.
also, I studied a number of their valving curves and didn’t really see the issue you had mentioned previously about the changes between settings being too big?
Just to be 100% clear, I was suggesting the dual bleed shaft with the inverted setup as Guy has it. However, John V is absolutely correct in that the shock travel of that setup is already limited, so further reduction by moving the separator piston back into the shock body would be a non-starter.
While I do think Guy would be willing to put something together like that, you'd pay $$$ to do so.
With the short MX5 shock tower, yes. The taller RX8 mount is going to allow a longer body for that to fit. So whether they can provide the DB eyelet with the appropriate large heim is the only question. All the pics I saw of the DB eyelet were aluminum machined with the usual smaller shock heim bearing.
One thing to consider with using the taller RX8 mount on an inverted setup is the center of the hat is effectively more outboard than with the short MX5 one, so you may run into interference between the hat and shock body on compression. I'm not sure I've phrased that correctly, I'll draw a picture if needed... haha.
Has to be considered, but no issue on my setup. This was also the same/similar setup that was used later on for the Koni Challenge RX8s. I was the first to have them made by Koni NA in 2006.
Well Trever @ MCS just called me and after discussing it he thinks it can be done with standard parts. I just need to send some pics and measurements to confirm. Will try to do this week, but it might be next weekend. Been meaning to do this for a long time and appreciate this thread for motivating me into action.
also, I studied a number of their valving curves and didn’t really see the issue you had mentioned previously about the changes between settings being too big?
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that's awesome, would love to see what the final solution would be for MCS setup. i know a few guys that run them on BRZ and BMW but have been told they have the best customer service. only thing i dont like about them is not being able to independently adjust the ride height like ohlins TTX. are you looking to do inverted rear?
that's awesome, would love to see what the final solution would be for MCS setup. i know a few guys that run them on BRZ and BMW but have been told they have the best customer service. only thing i dont like about them is not being able to independently adjust the ride height like ohlins TTX. are you looking to do inverted rear?
Assuming you mean the ride height can be adjusted independent of preload, why would you want that?
i think you’re confused, you only need that feature to both have pre-load and be able to adjust ride height. It’s mostly for the Fast & Furious crowd. Real race cars/coil-over shocks don’t have that because it’s only really needed with longish, large diameter OE type springs rather than the usual coilover type. That’s what tender springs are for.
not sure why you would dismiss shocks with independent height adjustment as ricer shocks, as most of the ohlins shocks have that feature. i have used shocks that doesn't have that feature and require the use of helper springs, AST, KW V3. i just prefer to have that feature.
Maybe you should instead explain why it makes any difference when most race cars don’t have the springs preloaded?
Do you understand that pre-load is created by actually compressing the spring when the shock is off the car; “pre” loading a force on it? The shock shaft won’t move until that pre-load force is exceeded. That’s why an independent adjuster is needed for small changes. The corner balance is still changed unless you can adjust them accurately down to the thousandths of an inch; good luck. That pre-loaded spring force is holding up the car weight. So to overcome it the overall length has to be changed. Race cars typically use shorter springs with soft or zero force tender springs to accomplish the correct ride height.
Who else actually does it other than a bunch of ricer brands? You don’t think Koni, Penske, MCS, Moton, JRZ, AST, et al can’t do that? It’s just a basic mechanical engineering 101 feature, not rocket science. It’s also not like Ohlins is dominating every segment of auto racing. They jumped into mountain bike forks and shocks the last several years and quickly found out they didn’t have quite the grasp on the market as was probably anticipated. Not knocking them, but let’s not be less than honest either.
i feel that most motorsport shocks don't incorporate independent height adjustment for a couple reasons. mainly cost effectiveness and most of the shock bodies are designed for universal use with multiple applications. i rarely see purpose built race cars use shocks with helper springs. i'm not ohlins fan boy by any means. i'll use any shocks that's the best value for what I can afford. that's why i'm interested in the mcs at the moment. have heard a lot of good feed back from people who uses them at the track and i can get them at a very good price. ohlins are used on a few super cars, so they must be doing something right. i dont follow mountain bike tech, but there's a few established shock companies in that market already. i think they are doing well in the motorcycle market? anyways, we're getting a little out of topic.
I have MCS 2 way adjustable with remote reservoirs. Love how 1 click can make all of the difference going from great to amazing. Access to the rear adjuster is kind of a pain.. but I was able to fab around it. Use swift springs and no preload.. saw you talking about it a bit but not sure what the conversation was about. Also use helper springs.. they just help get the wheel down for driveways.. Lex knows his stuff. You can even have him look in his records for a setup he built for me. PM me and I can jump on a call with you and MCS.
Side note, I love these shocks so much that I will be ordering another setup for a lot tamer of a spring setup for my fun/street rx8.
i’m talking to MCS direct initially, but if we get the fitment figured out on their side by using my Koni 2812 measurements my intention is to swing the actual order over to a shop that has done some considerable autocross RX8 setup work for the tuning work. I was planning on starting somewhere around 16kg/13kg spring rates initially, but still may need to refine that some.
This is pretty much what we need with an 18mm heim at the adjuster end and a 14mm stud on the other end for a 5/8” spherical on the shock tower top with tapered adapter spacers.
And a picture of my inverted Koni 2812 DA, the ABS cable is blocking a good view of the adjusters below the red spring hat ... full droop in this view with 6" x 2.25" spring and a zero helper spring at the bottom
Tender springs exist to ensure that in a suspension setup with adequate droop travel, an unloaded or lightly loaded wheel will still have a force exerted on it beyond just the unsprung weight (wheel / tire / uprights etc).
Those height-adjustable shocks basically limit you to nearly zero droop travel
Tender springs exist to ensure that in a suspension setup with adequate droop travel, an unloaded or lightly loaded wheel will still have a force exerted on it beyond just the unsprung weight (wheel / tire / uprights etc).
Those height-adjustable shocks basically limit you to nearly zero droop travel
100% correct. but you can still run tender springs if you want droop, by running shorter main springs. the height adjustable shocks basically just allow you to change the length of the mounting points (not the shock travel).
I have MCS 2 way adjustable with remote reservoirs. Love how 1 click can make all of the difference going from great to amazing. Access to the rear adjuster is kind of a pain.. but I was able to fab around it. Use swift springs and no preload.. saw you talking about it a bit but not sure what the conversation was about. Also use helper springs.. they just help get the wheel down for driveways.. Lex knows his stuff. You can even have him look in his records for a setup he built for me. PM me and I can jump on a call with you and MCS.
Side note, I love these shocks so much that I will be ordering another setup for a lot tamer of a spring setup for my fun/street rx8.
good to hear you have good feedback with MCS on rx8.
100% correct. but you can still run tender springs if you want droop, by running shorter main springs. the height adjustable shocks basically just allow you to change the length of the mounting points (not the shock travel).
If you want droop travel? Is there any reason to not want droop travel?
droop travel also depends on how big of a sway bar you're running (side to side)? unless both side is lifted, like jumping a crest.
Maybe this is pedantry, but droop -travel- is not affected by how big of an arb is on the car. How much droop you actually see in operation does depend on what bars are on the car and whether that bar's rate can be counteracted by the sprung weight plus the contribution of the tender.
But you didn't answer the question. Why would you not want droop travel in your suspension, in particular the rear?
I run Ohlin TTX's but I still wanted to put in a good word for Trevor at MCS. I've raced with him for years (he's fast) and he 'figuratively' grew up under a race car. He did setup for Dempsy among other pro teams. He is a great guy and will do anything he can to make the setup work for you. My car is about 5 miles from him if he needs to come over to get measurements.
Unless you're pre-loading the spring to the actual corner weight or higher it'll still be droop, but definitely less than a non-loaded setup.
What I'm getting at is those adjustable-length coilovers adjust the ride height by shortening the distance between the mounting points with the shock fully extended. You end up with a shock that is by design artificially limited in travel, particularly in droop. And unless you always run the assembly at its shortest length, you're sacrificing travel in both directions.
04-29-2019, 10:21 AM
