cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Going to my first track day in a few weeks. Anyone else going to be there? I'm coming with a couple of friends - one just got a '86 NA 7 track toy (also his first day) and the other a new 5.0 that he has been tracking for a year or so.

Just put some Hawk HP+ on the car and ordering some 225/45/R18 Star Specs today (unless someone can convince me to get the 245 RS-3s...) or tomorrow. My impressions on the brakes are that they are loud, dusty, mushy compared to the OEMs (going to rebleed), best when hot, and extremely grippy.

I plan to max out the front camber (hoping to get ~-2.5°), put the rear around -1.75° and set the toe to zero. Will this get the car balanced or should I still expect some push? I do know how to use a pyrometer, but can't camber/toe on the fly so just looking for a good starting point.

As for the RARB - Understeer is pretty much my worst fear. There appears to be enough room to drill a second hole in the bar for a stiffer rear end, has anyone done this successfully? I imagine the bar was designed with a high enough safety factor to allow this and drilling closer to the pivot axis should not raise the stress near the endlink.

Thanks,
Chris

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Not sure if this is your first track day or just the first with this car but IMHO the HP+ is not a great track pad (put put it mildly). Mid Ohio is moderate on brakes but much harder than Mosport (very easy on the brakes) where they let me down big time and went in the garbage bin after two days. Having tried a few different pads I am normally run carbotech xp10 and xp8.

Have fun.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

First time on a road course. First time really driving the '8. I have been autocrossing street cars for ~4 years and done a lot of FSAE parking lot lapping . Stuck with the HP+'s for now. Are the Carbotechs streetable? I think I will be putting the OEMs back on after Mid Ohio. Going to leave the HP+s on for now until I get used to the feel. I prefer the quietness, cleanliness, cold-performance, and linearity of the OEM pads for street use. Did you notice any signs before the HP+'s failed on you? I still have time to run brake ducts...?

Thanks!

dmitrik4

iTrader: (5)

I don't think stiffening up the rear bar is a good idea, especially for a first track day. The RX-8 doesn't really understeer on the track unless you're badly overdriving coner entry. It's a whole different setting from autoX.

If you have time to run brake ducts, you have time to order better pads. Seriously; don't skimp on that part.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

I don't plan on changing the bar for the first day, just wanted to know if it was an option.

I researched the Hawks before purchasing. In retrospect, I do not find the very pleasant on the street and would have gone for a more aggressive track-only pad. That said, I have read accounts that the HP+ have performed fine for Mid-Ohio on similar weight/higher power cars and higher weight/higher power cars. Does anyone have experience with the HP+ at Mid Ohio on an '8? I would rather not throw away a brand new set of pads.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

I guess it will depend on how hard you push the car (I would routinely get into the abs braking for 7). Xp10 and Xp8 can be left for the summer if you use the car sensibly and it depends how many events you do. When I did 10 weekends a summer it made sense to leave them on.

Mid Ohio is a fantastic track not as ballsy as Mosport but allot of fun. Learn as much as you can and if you feel brake fade just take it easy for a lap. And make sure the pads are bedded in properly.

Here is a good thread from Eric Meyer on brakes, braking and track pads:

https://www.rx8club.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188727

And his practice lap of the track:


Man I miss the track

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Chris and anyone else going to NASA MidOhio. I'd like to welcome you and encourage you to stop by our paddock area.

Chris_Bangle Excellent post of Eric's material. He wrote the book on that stuff and it is excellent. I've read a number of your posts and you've got some good insight.

cwatson: Please come up and paddock with us. I am the Regional TT Champion and paddock with 2 time National Champ Bill Breeze. (I hate that guy! lol) We have several Mazda people in our group, love to talk cars and generally have a great time.

I will be pretty busy as I am double dipping TT and PT racing. But my crew would be a great help for you.

Before you modify the car, work on the nut behind the wheel. Your HP+ will probably get you by for your very first track day. You won't be going that hard, but as others said, they will fade on you as you get better. I run HP DTC60s. The Carbotechs are also good, and a good track day choice. I found them a little weak for racing though.

Also, be aware that instructors for an HPDE 1 may not give you the best lines for our car. I have found that you will learn something from everyone that sits in your car, but I've had some instructors give me some gosh awful lines. My buddy Tom Cabral (Machiavelli on the forum) will be with us. Tom runs Group 3. Talk with him. He loves that track and is very competent. He will give you some very pleasant lines and useful advice.

BTW I will also be there Friday tuning in.

kbrewmr2

hell some racers that have run Mid-O for a while still have god awful lines there... I like the writeup on Trackpedia for the Mid-O line, but I might be biased a little

My R3 gets by on stock pads for some of the TX tracks, not ideal but doable. A mild upgrade would certainly help. HP+ aren't really even a mild upgrade though.

for your first few DE events just plain drive. Don't mess with stuff, just work with what you have. Once you've got yourself in decent shape as a driver then work on getting the car to work with you better. If you mess with the car first you're wasting your time as you start out.

JeffH

Plenty of room for an additional hole on each side. Drilled them without a problem. Forget the bit size I used but it was a standard size and had to file it out slightly.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Registered and ordered the Star Specs today. I am going to leave the bar alone for the time being but it's good to know the option is there. I expect to see the tires on Monday; still debating whether to align myself or have a shop do it.

Mark, sent you a PM with my contact info. We would be happy to paddock with you guys. Very much excited for this event.

docgatorx8er

iTrader: (10)

Chris, watch this video. Excellent driving technique. Good stuff starts about 7:30
You won't relate to a lot of it at this stage, but listen and put it in the back of your mind.

Focus on the experience. Be careful in session 3. That's when people start feeling their oats and you will see cars go off. (That is the voice of experience BTW) You're gonna have an amazing day.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Watched the whole thing a few days ago. While I have not been on a road course, I have done a lot of lapping in FSAE during which I got advice and compared times to the F125 champ from a few years back and to the current SCCA nationals champ. Thus, I was able to relate to most of the video. I imagine I still have much to learn going from a high power/weight, huge grip car on a parking lot to a momentum car at 2X the speed.

cwatson

iTrader: (1)

Update:

New (used) transmission. Feels much better than previous; does not get hard to shift with heat. Synchros are quicker. Also, it does not heat up nearly as much as the old one. Old fluid was near black and very much metallic.

Brakes are more manageable, only scream when heated and used partially; just a little squeal during normal (cold) use.

Star specs are on car: Huge grip, harsher ride, and the yaw response of the tires is noticeably quicker than the roll response of the car (previous Goodyear RS-As felt well-matched). 3/4 tires balanced at 2-3oz and the imbalance has become evident but not bad. Noise level is slightly higher, not noticeably bad.

Starting alignment:
Corner: Camber, Toe, Caster
LF: -0.4°, 0.0°, ~6.5°
RF: -0.3°, 0.3°, ~6.5°
LR: -1.5°, 0.3°
RR: -1.5°, 0.0°

First adjustment:
Corner: Camber, Toe, Caster
LF: -0.4°, 0.0°, ~6.5°
RF: -0.3°, 0.3°, ~6.5°
LR: -1.5°, 0.0°
RR: -1.5°, 0.0°

Car tracks straight, steering wheel is way off center. Some evidence of heat on outside front. Front camber adjustment bolts are seized...got them to budge a little today, will continue working on them tomorrow. Don't see much promise, they are near maxed out as is.

Any recommendations for eccentric bushings?

-Chris