Yeah, I should know you got a 04 with 6spd manual.:dunno:

Ok, time to fire this thread up again.

I got my 8 realingned this week, and it was off bad.

I thought the camber was at -1.6 f and 1.9 r, but the front left was -.9 ,left rear -2.1, and right rear -2.3. WTF?

Maybe it was the counter clockwise 360 spin at 30 mph I put on it with undersize tires on the front for one track day.

So it's now the most I could get in the front -1.0 left, -1.7 right, and the least I could get in the right rear -1.65, and left rear to match at -1.65.

Anyway, I set out to even all camber at -1.5, but I'll settle for mostly -1.65 except for the front left.

We even lowered the left caster to 5 deg from 6 or 7, but the left wouldn't go back to the -1.55 that I had last spring.

So the front is barely toed out with left camber -1.0, left caster 5 deg, and right camber -1.7, and right caster 6 deg.

It now drives perfectly straight, feels good, and the annoying rear suspension bump is gone.

The stock rear springs tend to sag which starts them giving excessive camber early.

I sat in the car while the rear camber was set at -1.65 which straightened the rear up from the splay it had so the shock movement is not binding anymore.

^ you might double check for suspension wear/damage, that's quite a camber dif left-right.

in reality the alignment settings have a much more minor handling impact than springs/bars/shocks, so being off a ways here or there will show up more as tire scrub/wear patterns than anything else

On a non-adjustable spring position suspension the LF will typically come up several tenths less camber the RF. For that amount of difference you may have some suspension pre-load in one or more corner assuming you haven't bent or twisted anything

Are you sure the camber adjuster was moving freely? They have a tendency to seize up.....????

I aligned just 8 months ago on the same machine, and same guy.

He barely understands the machine or math, but he let me help and sit in the car, so it was my call.

On the last alignment he said that he had put the front left camber at its max of -1.55 so I matched the front right at -1.6 approx.

Had I realized before I took it this time that it was under -1.0 I could have been ready to get him to turn or loosen the top left suspension arm, and push in at top.

Anyway, it handles better than ever so we'll see on the track in March.

I aligned now to save the new tires I just put on, and that front left seems to wear too much on the inside anyway, so this alignment will work ok for awhile.

Many people here have said that they could only get -.9 on the front left , but -1.7 on the front right, and when I tried to match the rears lower to the front the right rear would on go down to as low as -1.65.

So I'm elated that I got about -1.7 on three wheels, and it'll be a staggered alignment for a counter clockwise track at least;)

I haven't looked at the top left arm much, but can it be loosened and pushed in some now without rechecking toe on that side?

hi guys, i got an '07 with RB springs, progress sways, on 17x9.5 +38 rpf1's with 275/40 azenis.

going in for an alignment soon, and here are the numbers i'm trying to achieve:
-rear camber: -0.75 degree
-rear toe: 0.13 degree left, 0.13 degree right for a total of 0.26 toe-in or 0.28

-front camber target: -0.50 left, -0.50 right
-front caster targets: 7 degree, or 6.6 degree or higher evenly on both sides
-front toe-in targets: 0.09 left, 0.09 right for a total toe-in value of 0.18

had few track events at HTM prior to getting the progress sways, and i get an outside rear 3/4 inch section that does not see much tire wear as opposed to the front, where it rubs end-to-end. the rears overheats and kick out, while the fronts still holds up nice, so i'm not sure if its entirely the azenis compound to blame...

what do you guys think of these numbers? my goal is to have only enough rear camber to get the WHOLE rear planted under hard braking and corner exiting.

keep in mind i plan to use these numbers with the progress sways and staying 275/40 width tires.

thx

I've seen you around the forum, and since you're from Movieland, I guess you like a story with a happy ending.

I went the stock route with alignment, and about -1.7 camber all around, but with all that stiffness and rubber you've bolted on, I think you need to try for about -2.0 camber all around if you can get the fronts that much, or maybe about -1.6 to keep the ass straight like you asked.

The rears can get there pretty easy, but I couldn't get less than -1.65 on the right rear(like you're asking to get -.75 ), and you need about -1.9 anyway.

So to recap, get all the front camber you can to around -1.6, and about the same or up to -1.9 in the rears.

Your idea of -.5front/-.75rear seems like the right ratio if you want to plant the ass, but it just seems like too little on any grippy tire that will force weight over onto the sidewall of tire.

The toe is tricky to get exact numbers in the rear, so just settle for zero toe (it'll most likely end up slightly negative or positive anyway), and I like slight toe out in front or zero (another probably can't get exact anyway).

Ok, I do remember that I got about .04 or .05 toe out on both sides front.

After running the car for awhile with 3 psi less air hot in rears, try to decide if its still jumping out or not, then, if you need the rear to rotate more realign it with less negative camber on the rear like -1.8 or so.

good Luck!

^^^ I agree, max negative in the front and similar for the rear or maybe half a degree less. I don't think you can get below -1.2 neg in the rear.

Use your tire pressure for fine tuning at the track, but if it is super loose go with a softer rear bar setting and or stiffer in the front. You have adjustable bars for a reason, use them.

thx 40, i sure am hoping for a happy ending, but its never easy.

your reply was very helpful as i was hoping to see if my numbers will be heading the right direction, and ultimately a happy ending.

the thing with those nice negative camber u listed is that i think it may work great for narrower tires.

other numbers like toe... i actually like the opposite as i'm trying to retain an understeer characteristic and more stability on high speed turns and straights. i should've listed my preference in my post, my bad.
the reason i'm going with higher caster numbers so i can get more negative camber when the wheels are turned up front.

these symptoms are before i have the progress sways on stock setting. and of course, i'd use them to stiffen things up so i don't over-roll on the outer tread blocks rear.

getting some opinions towards my numbers to see if i will get them "planted" and not overshooting it was just what i was looking for. which u also pointed out.

about achieving those numbers... it is a rather conservative setting very similar to the OP's. and i've also compared with the manual prior with some studying.

but more towards my driving preference and numbers... i can use some criticism on what may be a good number on caster to help bias front to rear camber. and toe-in as well...

hmmm... no happy ending, yet.

i hate to disagree without good reason. but would mentioning i have good tire grip and proper wear end to end on the fronts be enough to say dialing in negative camber just to have some would not improve upon what i'm after?

please re-read my post if it seems like i'm coming off the wrong way...

My understanding is the caster will have very little effect on handling but more caster will improve driver feedback and increase the tendancy for the wheel to self center. The important part about caster is that it is nearly equal from left to right. If you are more then .5 deg difference the car will tend to pull to once side or another.

I've been following your posts and I'd like to just put a couple c's worth in and ask you read some of the numerous threads that are avail. re:alignment on the board. My opinion, if you're trying to improve your handling esp. on track, is to think again about what you think you are going to get for an alignment. Your number are very conservative as you say, and although they'll work, they won't give you much help improving anything. In some of it I'd say you are thinking in the wrong direction about the best setup.

To my knowledge, caster is really a throw away while you aim for more -camber, it's nothing to go after by itself. Be careful wishing for toe as well. Toe can have adverse effects on the basic neutrality of the car, you really don't want to dial in understeer I wouldn't think, or get one end to planted relative to the other...but aim for balancing the car... then adjust to suit with sway bars or tire pressure.

I realize it's very difficult to know what's right, so my suggestion for you in your situation is find a race shop that knows what works and what doesn't, and ideally has Mazda experience or at least neutral handling car experience to work from. They will talk to you, ask what you are looking to do... street...track...etc and can expalin in detail what they are going to do and why, and what to expect from it.

There are so many differing opinions here about "best", but the thing to remember is that everyone is speaking about their car and the way it's setup. That means there are many many right answers (and a bunch or wrong ones too), but they don't necessarily apply to your car, your swaybars, your wheels, your tires, your intended use. You really want a knowledgable sports car alignment guy standing there looking at your car and asking the right questions first to do that for your specific setup.

Good luck!

Almost every RX8 race team and series HPDE driver sets their car up with 2-3 deg neg camber in the front. The rear varies depending on driver preference, track and other suspension factors. I hardly doubt your car is the only one that does need more negative camber.

I dont think you came off the wrong way, and I hope I dont come off the wrong way either.

My personal opinion is that you think you have plenty of grip, but what is happening is you are pushing the car until it oversteers (back end loose) so you dont go faster. The end result is that you have even tire wear on the front. If however you increased your neg camber both front and rear you would be able to go faster and still use all your tire contact patch.

What are your sway bar settings? If the front is too soft or the back is too firm, you will get oversteer. Try the middle setting in the front, soft in the rear with max neg camber in the front and the same neg camber in the rear. Adjust your sway bars to adjust for over and understeer.

You said you just installed the progress bars? If you came from stock bars on 275 tires, it is possible you were hitting the bumop stops in the rear which would cause immediate oversteer. The bigger bars in the front and rear should help that alot.

I run 275 hoosiers on all 4 corners and progress tech sways. Currently the front is on the middle setting and the rear is on soft. I have kw V3 coilovers which have a spring rate of 455/285 (progressive). Camber is 2.2/2.6 and 1.8/2.1

And just as an example, these are my setting and they work well for me. Pretty far away from yours...

Front:
caster 6.73L 6.75R
camber 2.03L 2.04R
toe .08 total

Rear:
camber 2.14L 2.13R
toe .00 total

At one point I did have Enkei 18x9.5s with 275/35s, but they slowed me down to much.

i totally agree, and thats the thing.

in reality, i don't know where the numbers sit at as it is right now. and from just eyeing the rear tire wear, i may only need very small camber reductions at the rear.

for the toe, i'm okay with its stability and being toe-in. so maybe i'll just work on getting it even on both sides.

i know what i'm looking to achieve, but just from all the helpful inputs you guys gave, i'm considering going to the further shop and paying twice the amount so i can share what they think about my numbers.

spin: thats actually where i want the caster to be around.

The progress tech bars vs stock are going to significantly change the handling. You will need to make changes at the track to both the bars and tire pressures.

A stock rx8 will understeer, the racing beat springs won't change that. With 275 tires I think there was a strong chance your oversteer (rear end kicks out) was from hitting the rear bump stops. The new bars should help a lot but I think 275's might just be too much tire for your suspension.

Man, I'm your one stop shop!

When I aligned the guy could barely use the machine, and he'd been on it at least a year, but he couldn't get the front left much above -.9, and he got it to -1.55 a year before.

So I told him to fiddle with the left caster to get more neg camber so he did. After aligning, I can tell that my front camber is more neg than the rears, so I have about -1.7 fronts, and -1.6 rears.

Anyway, the left caster ended up at about 4.5 and the right about 6.5-7.0, and I said to stop there knowing it might steer funny.

Well, it's the best handling car I've ever steered, and the less caster on the left does allow it to tend to drift to left, but overall it steers straight, and especially on high crown roads.

When I stand on the brakes hard, it can want to track left slightly, but I can turn right easily, and I used to slip the right rear taking off on a right turn, which doesn't happen anymore.

If you can imagine putting cardboard under one leg of a four leg table to steady, by lowering the left caster a few degrees, it picked up the left front some which would also pressure the opposite right rear corner.

It's probably better to get even front caster, but not anything to fret about.

hwy: its not bump stops, trust me. i'm not always on power when it steps out, as it can occur on braking.

40w: thanx bro, i'm considering your feedback as well

well gents, as of now with no alignment numbers, i took measurements and here's what i got.
and trust me... i took some of y'all opinions and all of it helped. my figures in my head were going the direction i wanted... although its TOO conservative and too much.

here it is:
-front: 369mm left, 370mm right
-rear: 356mm left, 356mm right
this number is as is with 1/2 tank, so all the numbers may drop 1-2mm with me+full tank of gas.

so the manual's spec's (or allowable recommendations) are
front: 361-370= -0.45 +/-1 degrees camber
front caster: 364-373= 6.28
rear: 354-363= -1.44 +/- 1degree camber

going off of what i just got off my car's ride height, i may have been looking at something a bit TOO conservative for myself as also from gathered opinions. i can always ask for a bit more and still be fine when i do actual aligning.

i'll consider a new set from there, but i'll keep the good advice to retain some more camber.
it won't be far off... and you guys will probably know the direction i'll head with it, but it'll at least be better than if i went in today already and got set up with those numbers.

i'll try to update with #'s as soon as i find something comfortable. stay tuned

thanks for all u guys help
TM

^I see you like to stay close to specs, and your heighth is about mine, but notice the specs say -1.0 more camber in the rears which would be for most drivers so that no noobs are out there spinning out; I see this strategy on every car sold (it's so much your eyeball can see it).

You've put massive tires and stiffness on your 8, and you'll need to find out how to balance what you got with either turning down the pressure on your rear bar or adjusting rear camber relative to the front camber.

I tricked a RX3 out with really stiff bars since camber adjustment would have been hard to do, and some times you can get so stiff that the weight transfer isn't enough to get the tires to stick.

After all, it always comes down to the tire in the end, and some tires will like different setups.

Steps out on braking? Straight line or are you trail braking? If the back end gets lite or loose on braking thats most likely too soft of springs and/or technique.

Track Data:

2004 RX-8 MT
Tein H-Tech Springs, D-Spec Shocks (set on 2), Progress Tech Bars, soft front, medium back.
Hankook V-12 Tires
Track Temps in 60's and 70's
Camber: -1.8 in Front, -1.3 in Rear (that is the most the front will take, rear can go another degree)
Roebling Road Raceway, February 2011

Observations:
1. Sways on full soft cause understeer, a lot of it. I exited Turn 9 at 85 or so 6 feet to the left of the rumble strips, pointed at the timing tower.
2. The exit of turn 9 was a great topic for the green track walk. I was congratulated on my exit multiple times. Car was wonderfully stable going across the grass.
3. Car was best with a 3 psi stagger front to back, higher in front.
4. Best runs were with hot pressures, after cool down lap, of 42 front, 39 rear. Wear was well above the tip of the little triangle on the sidewall front and back.
5. Temps were even across left side, progressive across right (hot inside, cooler outside), that is just this track.
6. If you listen, V-12 will tell you when sliding, even with full face helmet. They just do not howl like old tires did.
7. Car is now wearing front and rear the same, no reason to switch anything.


If I had it to do over, and the plan for next time:
1. A little less air pressure in the rear. Or a very small fraction more negative camber. Not much though. Car has a SLIGHT tendency to over-rotate just past the apex of 3. Very slight, but you are hauling ass when it happens.
2. MM Calibration is done, going to be fun.

04Green,

I'm a Ventus V12 fan, so what wheel and tire size do you have?

stock 8x18 offset +50, with 225/45r18?