09 Shocks... Side by side comparison to 04-08
 

So i had a chance to take the stock shocks off last night in order to compare them to the yellows that i have been waiting to install. In comparison to the yellows and to a set of oe 04 shocks, there is only one slight difference in the shocks and that is that the perch height is about a 1/4" higher on the 09 shocks than it is on the previous models. I have the stock ones out and am gonna have a spacer made for the spring. I was originally gonna have the shocks sent to koni, however the difference is so small that im just gonna get a spacer. All other dimensions including shaft length and body length are identical. I should be able to get pictures later tonight of the two shocks side by side.

Sacha

Base 09' or R3?

Pics would be great. +1 on Jason's question.

R3?

Let's see some pics.
Would a spacer make it BS legal?

09 sport, pics shortly

If all else is cool, yes. Similar thing had to be done on the early R pkg Miata, shim the rear perch.

From what I hear the R3 is different.

Picture. We have ours at a machine shop to right now which is C&C pieces to raise the height and duplicate the differing perch. :banghead:
We measure 1/2 inch diff in height.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2171/...b2c630dc_b.jpg

WOW. Looking at the ramp on there now it almost looks like an MX-5 rear. :squint:

Here are the pics that i took. I measured 15mm on the flat side and 10mm on the ramp side.

a) it better be the perfect thickness, too much or too little is a DSQ violation

b) adding it to a helical perch isn't as easy as you think

c) the helical angle and spring contact surface length also have to be a dead match to OE

the Miata application mentioned had a loose perch and the shock body had grooves that a c-clip fit into to locate the perch, so adding a flat shim of proper thickness was easy in comparison to what's being proposed here ...

well im sill thinking about sending the oe shocks and the yellows for modification as an option

Anyone know about how much it's going to cost to get the perch moved up.
And this might be a dumb question, but has anyone tried to get the rears externally adjustable?

I will probably send the oe ones and the yellows to koni next week and i had the same question about making the rear externally adjustable. will keep you posted

Getting the koni sports converted to double adjustable ran ~ $350/ea. So yes, it can be done. I would assume just converting to external rebound would be less.
FWIW, Truechoice Koni Racing Service had a better lead-time than Koni NA a couple months ago.

It doesn't cost that much more to get DA vs external rebound only, they still have to disassemble the shock in entirety and replace all the seals etc.

my recommendation is to have the perch relocated, it's actually very easy to do it yourself on a twin tube shock if you have the metal working skills/tools, the tricky part is locating it properly

Have you sent them out yet?
I plan on sending mine in next week. I have an event this weekend and then nothing till July. But its my DD so I can't send in my stockers. Hoping someone else sends in a set before me so they have the specs.

I would assume that this means that all aftermarket shocks for 04-08 RX8's will have a similar difference when applied to the 09's?

Provided they were built like the 04-08 shocks in the first place, some never matched up.

They are actually being shipped to Koni today.

Do you mind pming me you name so I can tell them who I want mine like.
Did you get the externally adjustable? Price?

Call Phil Harris @ Truechoice Koni Racing Services 1-888-566-4722

http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/


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It is true that it has turned out to be difficult to build a shim that match the Koni perch and moves a match of the 09 perch to the correct position. We have failed so far. So we got a 04-08 shock for comparison since the perch on the Koni appeared to be so different from the 09 perch. It turns out that the OEM perches from a 09 and 04-08 are identical except for position on the shock and differ from the Koni stock class legal design. See picture: Koni top, 04-08 OEM middle and 09 OEM bottom. The Koni perch is not an exact replica of the OEM perch for any year as the rate of rise is less in the Koni 180 degrees from these pictures. This results in a section of the Koni perch being > 1/8 lower than OEM from in the middle of the rise to top perch height. This was identical for 4 Koni rears.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/...4c2e8af6_o.jpg

So the question is: If the low point and high point of the perch is identical to OEM are we OK. This is true for the Koni’s used but the rate of rise in the perch between these 2 points differs on the Koni vs OEM. Where in the rule book is the requirement for perch dead match?

Mine are out at koni as we speak. More than likely i will have them converted to double/external since they have to be taken apart anyways. i will have an answer hopefully today. They have already sent the info and measurements they gathered from my stock 09 rears to holland to start producing an 09 specific rear fitment

I called them and they told me they could not convert them to external adjustabilty.

Just got of the phone with Paul at koni. They are ordering the rods to convert my rears to external adjustment and also reweld the perch to the correct specs. cost is 296 per shock plus shipping. They said it would take about 2 weeks to get the rods and about another week to get them done. Will post up when i get them back. if anyone needs it Pauls extension is 324

Allright, just got off the phone with Paul. Shipping out tomorow. External and relocation, about 4 weeks turnaround. It's too hot to race anyway.

Mine are now in line right behind yours. The external rebound adjustment does not seem to be worth the expense as you still cannot get to it without shock removal.

Paul told me I would be able to adjust them while they are on the car.

Maybe I misunderstood what Paul said. I thought he said the external adjusters would be just like the fronts in which case they would still not be accessible through the trunk. I may have that wrong.:dunno:

What did the tell the conekiller 2?

Allright, just got off the phone again. He said that it would be adjustable on the top of the strut shaft, which sucks balls. Said he is going to talk to someone about the shock and for me to call him back later to see if this is the best that can be done.

Also said its about $200 per just to get the pearch relocated.
How long till they come out with the 09 specific shock. Probably cost less and be able to sell the old konis.

Lee Grimes said they just sent the measurements to Holland today so I would not expect a 09 specific version soon.

I wonder if this was a production run change... Cut down on inventory by using a perch from another application - I still say this looks like the MX-5 Koni perch.

I don't recall my original set, that were right off the boat from Holland, being any different than OE.

To be honest i never even asked about the adjustment and where it would be, DOH! i do recall however that when we took the oe ones off and put the 04-08 oe ones on the rear that there is enough room if you peel the trunk carpet away to get to the top of the strut

He told me it would be at the top of the strut shaft.

it's been that way since forever, Search is your friend ...

i you want the adjustments at the bottom you'll need a custom monotube shock such as the Koni 2812, which then has it's own complications plus considerably higher cost

So I'm going to contribute a little to this thread now that I know that I fall into the same category after speaking with Koni - Apparently the change in rear suspension does not just apply to the '09's but also at least some '08's. I have a 40th Anniversary Edition, and it may be that it only happened for this limited production model with the Bilstein's but upon installing my Koni yellows the back end does indeed sit lower than the front. Koni reps have confirmed this possibility and may actually get me to send them my measurements and pictures of my Bilstein shocks (the perch looks almost identical to the pictures at the top of this thread). So, I can send them back to Koni and put the Bilstein's back on and run B Stock locally on street tires or I can buy the Mazdaspeed front springs and run in STX like I have been. I'm leaning towards the Mazdaspeed springs as the front is an easier swap than the rear and I like the adjustability of the Koni's. I've got a Racing Beat front and rear bar, but I had taken the rear bar off to try to run in B Stock again. With it set like it is, even with an alignment trying to compensate for the situation, the car still understeers - the lower ride height in the rear along with the big front bar and stock rear makes for NO movement in the back end at all - just plowing like a tractor. Anyway, opinions welcome and more than anything I wanted to share info so everyone else would know that this problem is not limited only to '09 models but at least some '08 models as well.

By the way, does anyone have a link to a page or know off hand what the spring rates are on the stock springs vs the mazdaspeed - I want to make sure that the spring rate isn't stiffer or I'll just be creating another problem.

FYI... For those of you that have your rears at koni. Just got a call from Paul and mine are being shipped back to me today. He said there are 4 more sets in line waiting to get worked on

Sacha

Got mine back Friday. Haven't had a chance to put them on yet.

quick dumb question. considering getting an 09 RX8 base or 09 RX8 R3 to replace my 05 since the deals are amazing right now. can i use my koni SA from my '05 on either the 09 base or R3?

You won't be Stock legal, but they'll bolt on

so does koni sell shocks for the 09 base or R3 that fit without modification to be legal for BS?

I am looking at a deal right now. The price for a brand new 2009 base model right now is about 21k. The R3's are really tempting at about 26k. If anyone knows of where they are cheaper, please let me know. I am seriously considering a newer one.

I don't think Koni has the right shocks yet. Different question is whether the Bilsteins on the R3 are legal for the base models. At least you could get the Bilsteins revalved and use the konis in front.

How would that make more sense than having them modify the rear Koni shocks?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were... In '09 the transmissions and diffs are the same, no? Seems like they were combining as much as possible to save costs.

Does anyone expect Koni to release a specific rear shock for the 09's, or should I go ahead and buy a used set when a good deal comes up? It will still cost more by the time I have the perches moved then it would buying an 09 specific set new, but if new is never available, then I guess there's no other choice.

Good thread. So the 09'+ rear shcosk/springs are not swappable to the 04-08? But the fronts are?