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{FREE} Buyers and sellers be smart!

Old 07-06-2011, 12:19 PM
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JP Buyers and sellers be smart!

Category: Accessories
Price: $0
Private or Vendor Listing: Private Listing
Part Fits (you may select multiples): Others, Series I, Series II
Location (US State/Canada/Int): TX
Item Condition: New

Okay guys,

People have been getting ripped off more and more lately. I have helped a few guys track people down and some have recovered their money and some have not. But after looking at how the transactions took place I can see that many of these situations could have been avoided.

First off, look at the itrader rating (little number next to their username) and the post count and length of time on the site of the person you are buying from. Then click on the username of the seller and review some of his posts and look for recent threads started by the user to get an idea of how they participate on the forums. Many of the scam artists have started multiple threads selling the same items and their stories don't add up.

If they are a new member ask if anyone can vouch for them on rx8club.com or if they have any rep points or a solid reputation on another board. Get what info you can out of them and Google them, a lot of scam artists tend to use the same email address and a quick Google of that address may link you to posts from other forums where the guy has ripped people off. If you are suspicious and cannot afford to lose the money, walk away.

Ask for current, up to date pictures of the items being sold, preferably with their username and the date on a piece of paper. Pictures of someone else item or pictures of how it looked three years ago when they installed it doesn't tell you anything. Ask for specific details on the product. Is it damaged at all? Is anything missing? Don't assume because they list an AEM intake for sale that all the screens, clamps, couplers, etc. are included. Research the product you are buying, read the DIY threads and get familiar with what the item comes with new.

If you are a seller, deliver the goods insured, and get proof of delivery and keep a copy of all of your communication with the buyer. And of course get payment up front. Try not to do anything verbally, I prefer to communicate VIA email or PM. If you are the buyer, ask for tracking and ask about possible arrangements to protect all parties, like half payment up front and the rest upon delivery, etc.

Lastly, use PayPal, or some other documented way of payment and use a credit card with fraud protection if possible. No payment method is guaranteed to protect everyone all of the time. PayPal will protect you some of the time but if it is not an Ebay transaction and they don't have money in the account they have associated with PayPal, you may not get your money back.

But honestly, if you deal with reputable vendors/people with good itrader ratings and forum history there is a little chance you will be ripped off.

If anyone has anything to add, please do. I wrote this in a hurry so I assume I missed some things. Hopefully this get stickied.

Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 09-16-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:26 PM
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The only problem I have is payment for half and the rest on delivery leaves a window for more issues of the buyer running off with the product for half price. But then again the flip side can happen to the buyer not receiving anything.

Ask for a picture of them and a drivers licensee, with a recent mail with their address as well that way you can call the local police if you run into issues.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:29 PM
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I used to work in asset/judgement recovery so i have seen people get burned big time. and over the years I have seen people get burned here and I hate to see it, especially when it's some young kid losing is hard earned mod money. I know they are hard life lessons learned when it happens but I think it helps the community overall if we fight against scammers and try and prevent it as much as we can.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:33 PM
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This is really good advice, but it doesn't tell the whole story. At least for me, I believe the items I purchased from BHR, MazdaManiac, the guy whole sold the t-shirts and the leather shift-boot (I can look up their names later), were all done prior to the iTrader scoring system (I think).

Further, other items I purchased had nothing to do with the RX8 forum or it's members other than getting advice on which vendor supplies what and if they're reliable.

My trader score is '0', but again, I've purchased items from members on this forum. Does that mean I should now go solict a favorable score from these members? I don't know, that would be embarassing. I've never attempted to sell anything on here until now, now that my '8 has been sold.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Race Roots View Post
The only problem I have is payment for half and the rest on delivery leaves a window for more issues of the buyer running off with the product for half price. But then again the flip side can happen to the buyer not receiving anything.

Ask for a picture of them and a drivers licensee, with a recent mail with their address as well that way you can call the local police if you run into issues.

Yeah that is a risk for the seller as well. For big ticket item person/person transactions it can get tricky. Sometimes people need to weigh the potential savings and pitfalls of purchasing a used item versus the peace of mind and insurance they get from purchasing from a reputable vendor.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jsjjr View Post
This is really good advice, but it doesn't tell the whole story. At least for me, I believe the items I purchased from BHR, MazdaManiac, the guy whole sold the t-shirts and the leather shift-boot (I can look up their names later), were all done prior to the iTrader scoring system (I think).

Further, other items I purchased had nothing to do with the RX8 forum or it's members other than getting advice on which vendor supplies what and if they're reliable.

My trader score is '0', but again, I've purchased items from members on this forum. Does that mean I should now go solict a favorable score from these members? I don't know, that would be embarassing. I've never attempted to sell anything on here until now, now that my '8 has been sold.
I would find those threads and submit/request positive feedback if you can. If not then do what you can to assure people that buy from you won't get ripped off. Having an open dialogue with potential buyers will help your sales. For me, if I see a low post count and a 0 itrader rating I just move along.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SPHINX144 View Post
good warning for the new members, I got scammed once here already. now I'm extremely careful.
Thanks, I was burned on a $900.00 engine purchase back in the day. I got my money back (thanks to threats of violence, paypal and the fact that it was an Ebay deal)and then some but it scared the **** out of me because i was young and broke at the time, I should have been more careful.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jsjjr View Post
This is really good advice, but it doesn't tell the whole story. At least for me, I believe the items I purchased from BHR, MazdaManiac, the guy whole sold the t-shirts and the leather shift-boot (I can look up their names later), were all done prior to the iTrader scoring system (I think).

Further, other items I purchased had nothing to do with the RX8 forum or it's members other than getting advice on which vendor supplies what and if they're reliable.

My trader score is '0', but again, I've purchased items from members on this forum. Does that mean I should now go solict a favorable score from these members? I don't know, that would be embarassing. I've never attempted to sell anything on here until now, now that my '8 has been sold.
I have solicited a Itrader report from the people I have purchaced items from. Two people were on their way out and didn't want to bother with it.
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Old 07-06-2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen View Post
I have solicited a Itrader report from the people I have purchaced items from. Two people were on their way out and didn't want to bother with it.

Yeah I have had quite a few transaction where I submitted positive ratings and they never submitted anything for me. But at this point I don't think I need them
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ShellDude View Post
I've bought and sold a number of big ticket items here -- turbos, wheels, rotors, etc and my trader score too is a zero.
I would submit an itrader rating for your B&B midpipe you bought eons ago but I have to link a thread so it then becomes a pita...lol

I really wish they did away with that portion.

If you ever need someone to vouch for you let me know, I know I wouldn't mind posting in a FS thread if a customer asked me and they have done business with me in the past.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ShellDude View Post
I've bought and sold a number of big ticket items here -- turbos, wheels, rotors, etc and my trader score too is a zero.
Yeah I know people don't always use the function but they should just to encourage it. I know if I see a couple of positive itrader ratings I wouldn't hesitate to buy. It's not a perfect system but it works.

Originally Posted by yale02 View Post
This is good advice to us all. I have bought and sold on this forum with no problems; perhaps I've been lucky? I don't understand why unlike many other forums, this one will let you sign up for an account and sell the very same day. Shouldn't there be a minimum number of posts or days membership?
I agree, make them work for the sale at least. It's common practice.

Originally Posted by Race Roots View Post
I would submit an itrader rating for your B&B midpipe you bought eons ago but I have to link a thread so it then becomes a pita...lol

I really wish they did away with that portion.

If you ever need someone to vouch for you let me know, I know I wouldn't mind posting in a FS thread if a customer asked me and they have done business with me in the past.
Yeah I have wanted to rate some good transactions that there were technically no threads for so I have had to make threads just so I could give them and get a good itrader rating. I made one today for a fuel pump I sold Dannobre when I saw his rating was 0.
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Old 07-07-2011, 12:48 AM
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Just as a data point:

PayPal favors the buyer. Google Checkout favors the seller.

So, use the appropriate tool for your situation.
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:14 AM
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I'm pretty sure anyone can use Google.
They are just much more stringent on the buyer's CC info and, if a complaint is lodged by a buyer, all the seller needs to do is prove that the item was shipped and they will brush the buyer back.
Contrast that with PayPal where, if a buyer challenges a transaction, the seller is immediately docked the transaction amount and virtually no proof is good enough to stop the reversal.

I've had a buyer receive merchandise and then immediately demand a charge-back through PayPal. After PayPal gave them their money back (after taking it from me plus a hefty "charge-back fee", despite my showing proof of shipment AND signature proof of delivery through UPS), they buyer actually sent me pics of the merchandise in their hands along with a "FU" letter and a pic of them flipping me off.
I went back to PayPal with this and they said "Too bad. Too late.".
That was the last time I allowed myself to get burned by PayPal. Now I don't use it for seller transactions.
Last year was the final tipping point where I actually broke even after having lost so much in the 4 years before to fraud through PayPal.
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:07 AM
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Also when using paypal NEVER SEND MONEY AS MONEY OWED OR GIFT!

If your paying fees just add 4% to the price. When you pay with gift or money owed its hard for a claim to be opened against the person.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by yale02 View Post
This is good advice to us all. I have bought and sold on this forum with no problems; perhaps I've been lucky? I don't understand why unlike many other forums, this one will let you sign up for an account and sell the very same day. Shouldn't there be a minimum number of posts or days membership?
Not hard to setup an account and then just wait and post random items over time through the forum there are ways around everything, only way I can think of to be full proof is the DL/Mail idea.

I know if I was planning on scamming someone I would not be sending my DL/or address out so that would scare away 99.9% of scammers.

But there is no way for the forum to enforce that, the end user needs to do that.

Jeff is correct about Google checkout, I once had a customer buy something 26 times, Google denied it every time. The last time it went through and called Google they confirmed everything was good. On the flip side I have had PayPal deny buyers and them to be authentic purchasers. PayPal really needs to revise their policies so that it is fair for sellers and buyers.
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:32 AM
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Anybody who pays more than $300 for a used Cobb AP is not well informed. Tuning one yourself is not a straightforward deal. The free Stage 1 tuning map has never been known to work well on any RX8. You can get a new Cobb AP With tuning service through Mazdamaniac for $594. The tuning service as a stand-alone purchase is $299. That means you paid less than $300 for the new Cobb AP. Most people will not accomplish much if anything tuning it on their own without taking the MM tuning webinar for $175. Even then it will require a lot of time and effort to accomplish.

If you are selling a Cobb AP the reality is that there is an extremely limited market for self tuning buyers. Pricing it for more than $300 means you are not in any hurry to sell it. Just like the people who gwt scammed, sooner or later someone who doesn't know any better may pay more than this. But if you want it gone quickly you need to price it accordingly.
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Old 09-03-2011, 08:35 PM
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Something to consider if you are very cautious about buying or selling from anyone (like me), the best option by far is local pickup. A 3, 6, 10 hour drive might be worth it if you're dealing with an expensive item. So far all my deals minus one was local pickup, they don't show up with the goods, you don't hand over the cash, plain and simple.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen View Post
I have solicited a Itrader report from the people I have purchaced items from. Two people were on their way out and didn't want to bother with it.
Is there a post that gives instructions on this? How does this work? Any help would be appreciated. I have bought 10+ items from members here and have a trader score of 0.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jewagr007 View Post
Is there a post that gives instructions on this? How does this work? Any help would be appreciated. I have bought 10+ items from members here and have a trader score of 0.
You just click on the little number next to the users name and then you can submit a rating. You just need the link to the for sale thread to do so. I have had a few people not respond or give a return rating but for the most part people do. It's a great feature in my book.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:48 PM
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Stickied, and bumps ironed out.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:49 PM
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Excellent. Thanks.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:27 PM
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Does this "trader score" thing come into play with group buys? For instance the powertrix coilover group buy that is up right now? Upon receiving them am I expected to give a score and will a score be given to me?
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:02 PM
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I would say that you should get a score for it but I dont think tilt should get 10+ scores
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:28 AM
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If itz free itz must beez of zero value ....
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Race Roots View Post
The only problem I have is payment for half and the rest on delivery leaves a window for more issues of the buyer running off with the product for half price. But then again the flip side can happen to the buyer not receiving anything.

Ask for a picture of them and a drivers licensee, with a recent mail with their address as well that way you can call the local police if you run into issues.
Unfortunately even the license doesn't guarantee anything either sadly enough. May be their's may not be, who knows? but it's still hard to pursue in any case.

I tried to buy a car from a supposedly reputable dealership last month (licensed at least) and they twisted all the numbers on the deal originally agreed to and confirmed by email, so much so that it wasn't anything close to the deal that was discussed previously but did so only after the deal was agreed to & I paid a substantial down payment by credit card.

I was out of the country at the time but moving back and required a car immediately and this one was low mileage and the Carfax confirmed this and a package I believed was worth the risk in terms of what was the cars mechanical condition and since it was supposedly a reputable dealer I went with it.

Once they tried to scam me on the deal, I contacted an attorney and retained her to get them to adhere to the original terms discussed (which I also had confirmation of in emails BTW) but even the attorney I retained scammed me and I'm still in the process of going after her but too many things on my plate at the mo with me and my sons relocating here after 10 years abroad.. When that happened I requested my money back and backed out of the deal altogether and they refused me a refund even though no contract was signed and it went on from there.

Being an out of country bank it was quite complicated but finally after a face to face confrontation with the dealership when I got back in country (why it always has to come down to that is beyond me) I got info and found out the dealership in question was not trusted buy the credit card company either and put my money in escrow on hold instead so they had it and that was somewhat a relief since we only had to file a dispute to get our money back in a few days, which finally happened a few days ago after a months worth of hassle.

Being in transition, with limited funds around the holidays, the timing couldn't have been worse it's screwed up everything I've tried to accomplish and now instead of being ahead I'm seriously behind..

I'd like to name and shame this dealership but not sure if that'd be allowed if not seriously deserved. I think everyone should know to stay away though, the sales manager is especially a crook that needs a serious attitude adjustment and brought down to reality. I couldn't believe his brash attitude and arrogance thinking he'd somehow get away with this deception in any way. From the point I backed out of the crooked deal it was all vindictiveness on his part from that point on..

Now I'm veeery leery of doing business on the net at this point and that's a shame for everyone..

JFYI Sadly even Ebay and PayPal have their own scammers who know how to get around the system..
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