Photos of my clutch disc - destroyed at 13k miles
09-24-2005, 03:12 PM
#1
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Photos of my clutch disc - destroyed at 13k miles
re:https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-trouble-shooting-95/clutch-broken-car-will-not-shift-while-engine-running-72243/
The pressure plate looks okay, I suppose - some heating...but hell, it's a sports car :D
hehe
The pressure plate looks okay, I suppose - some heating...but hell, it's a sports car :D
hehe
09-24-2005, 06:12 PM
#8
i'm not going to jump into any conclusions. but how in the world did the clutch get so hot, that it turned blue??? assuming DMP knows how to drive stick...and i'm sure he does.
the only logical answer is faulty component, which the dealership should replace on warranty.
the only logical answer is faulty component, which the dealership should replace on warranty.
09-24-2005, 06:23 PM
#10
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i have seen clutch discs fail like that in the past. its called high rpm clutch drops and flat shifting. happened in my 92 civic. i hate to say it, but i seriously doubt that mazda will cover that under warranty. sorry man.
09-24-2005, 06:59 PM
#12
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Im_DANomite
i'm not going to jump into any conclusions. but how in the world did the clutch get so hot, that it turned blue??? assuming DMP knows how to drive stick...and i'm sure he does.
the only logical answer is faulty component, which the dealership should replace on warranty.
the only logical answer is faulty component, which the dealership should replace on warranty.
The clutch disc are BLUE right from the box, when you buy one new. Dealer did replace- er, IS replacing it...but 'just this time' they say. If it happens again in another 13K miles, I'll make a big stink.
09-24-2005, 09:41 PM
#13
Bubblicious? DEF.
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i have seen clutch discs fail like that in the past. its called high rpm clutch drops and flat shifting. happened in my 92 civic. i hate to say it, but i seriously doubt that mazda will cover that under warranty. sorry man.
09-24-2005, 09:57 PM
#14
Rotary Powered Vermin
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Just an FYI for folks on clutch techniques in the 8.
Feather very quickly.
The parts and engine can take the stress up to about 5k delta RPM.
I have noticed that the OEM clutch material is subject to galling when allowed to get hot. Folks who have added weight to their 8 from add-ons have noticed this as well.
It doesnt take many times at all to burn up the stock clutch.
Its even worse in reverse due to gear ratios.
Feather very quickly.
The parts and engine can take the stress up to about 5k delta RPM.
I have noticed that the OEM clutch material is subject to galling when allowed to get hot. Folks who have added weight to their 8 from add-ons have noticed this as well.
It doesnt take many times at all to burn up the stock clutch.
Its even worse in reverse due to gear ratios.
09-25-2005, 10:49 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by LiL BenNy
whats flat shifting? never heard that before,,,
revving to desired shift point
pushing in clutch, leaving gas pedal depressed
shifting to next gear
releasing clutch
doing this allows for more inertia to be transferred to the drive train, but it is extremely, extremely hard on said drive train components, especially the clutch. the pictures of his clutch are exactly what the clutch in my civic looked like after i "discovered" flat shifting. it is fine if you are racing and trying to get the last bit of oomph out of your car, and you plan on rebuilding the drive train pretty often. but it is not something that you want to practice in your 8 unless you like doing clutches.
09-25-2005, 11:11 AM
#16
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by lurch519
flat shifting is:
revving to desired shift point
pushing in clutch, leaving gas pedal depressed
shifting to next gear
releasing clutch
doing this allows for more inertia to be transferred to the drive train, but it is extremely, extremely hard on said drive train components, especially the clutch. the pictures of his clutch are exactly what the clutch in my civic looked like after i "discovered" flat shifting. it is fine if you are racing and trying to get the last bit of oomph out of your car, and you plan on rebuilding the drive train pretty often. but it is not something that you want to practice in your 8 unless you like doing clutches.
revving to desired shift point
pushing in clutch, leaving gas pedal depressed
shifting to next gear
releasing clutch
doing this allows for more inertia to be transferred to the drive train, but it is extremely, extremely hard on said drive train components, especially the clutch. the pictures of his clutch are exactly what the clutch in my civic looked like after i "discovered" flat shifting. it is fine if you are racing and trying to get the last bit of oomph out of your car, and you plan on rebuilding the drive train pretty often. but it is not something that you want to practice in your 8 unless you like doing clutches.
that's 'speed shifting' to most people.
And it's something I've never had to do in the 8. It's something I did in my miata on occasion.
09-25-2005, 11:20 AM
#17
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yaaah! shifting like that is bad! It doesn't feel good anyways... makes the car jerk. So why do it? ^^
I've heard that stock clutches can go on for a VERY long time though... My friend's had this stock clutch on his Integra for 130k miles now. And.. he's not easy on that thing :p
I've heard that stock clutches can go on for a VERY long time though... My friend's had this stock clutch on his Integra for 130k miles now. And.. he's not easy on that thing :p
09-25-2005, 02:10 PM
#18
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Every clutch is a bit different so it is difficult to compare. The clutch is only as strong as it's weakest link. The photos don't show a lot of slippage (heat) but obviously the center couldn't handle something that was thrown at it. The stock disc uses Exedy's WAD (wide angle damper) design which does a better job dampening out noises than previous designs by allowing more rotation to the dampening so the springs can be made real soft. Exedy being the OEM for the 8 clutch is always looking for ways to quiet down torsional vibrations for the more "refined" car owners. This is is not exactly what you want for a performance application.
In this case I don't think the clutch failed from high rpms from the looks of it, but that is just based from the photos. The only real failure I can see is that the rivets sheared off what hold the disc together. Generally, rivets don't shear from high rpm, but from torsional impact or torque. I have seen very good results from using the original 3rd gen turbo RX7 disc, but Exedy has recently changed the design on those and I don't have as much experience with the new design.
In this case I don't think the clutch failed from high rpms from the looks of it, but that is just based from the photos. The only real failure I can see is that the rivets sheared off what hold the disc together. Generally, rivets don't shear from high rpm, but from torsional impact or torque. I have seen very good results from using the original 3rd gen turbo RX7 disc, but Exedy has recently changed the design on those and I don't have as much experience with the new design.
Last edited by ACTman; 09-25-2005 at 02:14 PM.
09-25-2005, 06:39 PM
#19
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ACTman
Every clutch is a bit different so it is difficult to compare. The clutch is only as strong as it's weakest link. The photos don't show a lot of slippage (heat) but obviously the center couldn't handle something that was thrown at it. The stock disc uses Exedy's WAD (wide angle damper) design which does a better job dampening out noises than previous designs by allowing more rotation to the dampening so the springs can be made real soft. Exedy being the OEM for the 8 clutch is always looking for ways to quiet down torsional vibrations for the more "refined" car owners. This is is not exactly what you want for a performance application.
In this case I don't think the clutch failed from high rpms from the looks of it, but that is just based from the photos. The only real failure I can see is that the rivets sheared off what hold the disc together. Generally, rivets don't shear from high rpm, but from torsional impact or torque. I have seen very good results from using the original 3rd gen turbo RX7 disc, but Exedy has recently changed the design on those and I don't have as much experience with the new design.
In this case I don't think the clutch failed from high rpms from the looks of it, but that is just based from the photos. The only real failure I can see is that the rivets sheared off what hold the disc together. Generally, rivets don't shear from high rpm, but from torsional impact or torque. I have seen very good results from using the original 3rd gen turbo RX7 disc, but Exedy has recently changed the design on those and I don't have as much experience with the new design.
I really appreciate your input Dirk - there's no way you could remember me, but I met you several years ago at Seattle International Raceway during an Import Drag event - from our conversation then, as well as past experience with your product I'm a huge fan.
09-26-2005, 09:44 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by dmp
I really appreciate your input Dirk - there's no way you could remember me, but I met you several years ago at Seattle International Raceway during an Import Drag event - from our conversation then, as well as past experience with your product I'm a huge fan.
Seriously though, thanks for the props!
09-26-2005, 10:12 AM
#22
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ACTman
Oh yeah, you were the guy with the cute girlfriend. Don't worry I won't tell your wife!
Seriously though, thanks for the props!
Seriously though, thanks for the props!
lol :D
Next time my clutch goes out, I'll bite the bullet and call ACT. As-is, I wasn't in a position to afford the labor costs; The dealership made it clear they are doing a 'favour' to me by installed an other than OEM flywheel.
09-26-2005, 08:29 PM
#23
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
I got the car back this evening...
Definately has the flywheel installed, as the car behaves differently...Frankly, Not impressed so far - but I didn't have the chance to go WOT in 1st or 2nd gear - the only two gears I think it'd help enough to be picked up on a butt-dyno. I'll report back after a week.
One thing I noticed - there is NO clutch pedal feel anymore...and it BLOWS...the pedal is so light as though it's not hooked up. I suspect PART of that feeling is due to a week driving a 2002 F150...still.
Definately has the flywheel installed, as the car behaves differently...Frankly, Not impressed so far - but I didn't have the chance to go WOT in 1st or 2nd gear - the only two gears I think it'd help enough to be picked up on a butt-dyno. I'll report back after a week.
One thing I noticed - there is NO clutch pedal feel anymore...and it BLOWS...the pedal is so light as though it's not hooked up.
I suspect PART of that feeling is due to a week driving a 2002 F150...still.
Last edited by dmp; 09-26-2005 at 08:31 PM.
09-27-2005, 02:44 AM
#24
Nice car - sweet daughter.
Glad you have your ride back, Darin. That F150 has definitely a big part in the light pedal feel. It will get better in a couple of days.
Personally, I really like light clutches - call me a wimp or what you will :p
That's one reason I wouldn't go with a heavier than stock clutch.
Glad you have your ride back, Darin. That F150 has definitely a big part in the light pedal feel. It will get better in a couple of days.
Personally, I really like light clutches - call me a wimp or what you will :p
That's one reason I wouldn't go with a heavier than stock clutch.
