devious12

I don't know if you can read the ad from the picture I posted but it says "The new Pro Formula Mazda race car is starting a revolution in racing, because it's powered by the same revolutionary RENESIS rotary engine that power the 2004 Mazda RX-8. Same high-rev rotors. Same 6-port induction system. Same virtually everything. No wonder it was named International Engine of the Year 2003." yata yata yata

Now I know this is a gimick to sell RX-8s, but 0-60 in 2.9 seconds... what are they doing that we or anyone else isn't?

Can someone please explain, if it was true 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, how they are getting those numbers. Now I know there is no dyno chart, or hard fact behind their claim in the ad, but those cars are extremely quicker than our stock 8's. Is it the ECU tuning? It says same port induction system, does that imply that they haven't modified the internals?

Thanks for any info

Mugatu

iTrader: (1)

that car has a different tranny, and is probably 1/3 as heavy as the RX8. Lighter car means quicker 0-60. Try gutting your RX8 and I bet you'd be faster...

devious12

Yeah I don't know why I didn't thinnk of that, lost in space today! You really think 0-60 in 2.9 seconds with just weight and a tranny? I'm no doubting you, but just trying to understand the extreme effects of those two differences that you mentioned.

Thanks

mysql101

The mazda star car weighs around 1000 lbs.

It's the same rx8 motor, but it's actually been detuned, the redline is lower in order to prevent the car from having more power than the others on the track.

Charles Cope

A formula ford I drove had a 100hp Ford Pinto 1600cc engine, but weighed 900 lbs. It was faster than the C5 Corvette with 305hp, but weighed about 4K.

devious12

Thanks guys, that really cleared up everything. I totally get it now.

rotarygod

Here it is off of their website:


"Engine: 240 HP Mazda “Renesis” rotary engine with encrypted ECU including rev limiter, pit speed limiter, traction control, fuel trim."


How is 240hp detuned?


The car also only weighs in a 1090 lbs. With 240 hp that is a 4.54:1 hp to weight ratio. 0-60 that fast seems quite reasonable.

Ike

I'd guess they aren't too worried about emissions on those cars as well...

mysql101

In the Star Mazda Series, every racer receives the same race vehicle which insures that race results are based heavily on the driver’s skill. The Formula Mazda is a Carbon fiber composite, 1090 lbs., 240 horsepower, open wheel race car. The engine is a 13b "Renesis" rotary engine that is rev limited to 6,800 rpm and equipped with a rev limiter, traction control, and a pit speed limiter. A driver has the opportunity to adjust his car's shocks (two way), anti-sway bars, wing angles, and brake bias (cockpit controlled).

The story is correct; they are artifically rev limited to 6,800 rpm, as a means to de-tune them. Why? Because the racing class must "fit" in the overall scheme of things. Formula Mazda's cannot, politically, be permitted to lap faster than the "higher" (bigger $$$) racing classes, like Toyota Atlantic. Either they rev limit them, add a bunch of weight, take away the wings or whatever. I imagine they went with the rev limiter so that they could remain light, aerodynamic, high-downforce cars -- better to train good drivers in. I think they made the right decision. All the cars are "spec", so the racing comes down to driver skill.

http://rotarynews.com/?q=node/view/390

rotarygod

If they can get 240 hp at only 6800 rpm, it really makes you wonder about the potential at 9000 rpm such as in the RX-8.

BlueEyes

no no no, I don't think you do.

You see, Force = Mass * Accerleration

Rearranging

Acceleration = Force / Mass

so you can see, given constant force, a higher mass will result in lower acceleration

:p :p

haha, sorry, I am just being a douche bag!

BlueEyes

I guess the guys who race these cars are like horse jockeys. They are probably all on low carb diets. At 185 Lbs I have no hope in hell!!

shelleys_man_06

I don't know. Lschiavo I think races in the Star Mazda Series, not to say he's a chunky or anything...:o

therm8

Hey, if you really want one....
http://www.formulacarseast.com/
wonder how much they cost? :p

futureownr4sure

you can bet that there's a racing exhaust on those beasts.

RobDickinson

This is how the Lotus elise with only 118bhp get sto 60mph in under 6 seconds.

Or the Caterham r500evo does 0-100-0 in under 11 seconds, it weighs almost nothing.

Chapman - "add lightness".

Weight is always your enemy with performance cars. Sure you can add heavy high HP engines to keep the same BHP/ton - but you have to stop that weight, and corner with it too.

BOOSTD 7

Sorry Jason, but that's not true at all. The only reason they rev-limit them is so they'll hold together. You can say they want it to hold together to keep racing costs down, that's one explination. But I think they want them to hold together so Mazda can make PR claims about how their race engines hold together for an entire season without needing a rebuild.

The cars can be as fast as they want, and in fact the newest generation of Star Mazda's are some of the fastest cars going today. Look at some of the lap times around specific tracks and see how they compare, it's quite impressive.

I've actually considered buying a used Star car as a lapping day play-toy. They're so light, you could tow one with anything. They're bulletproof and cheap, and they're quite fast. And of course it has a rotary, which is a pre-requisite for me

bern

Actually, I will have to disagree a little with my distinguished colleague here...

The main reason for limiting the revs in the PRO Mazda and the original STAR Mazda formula cars, is durability with the intent to cut down racing cost. This has always been one of the dictates of the STAR Mazda series, with engines running up to 3 seasons in the STAR series. The STAR series was conceived as a lower cost alternative to the existing formula classes of the day, and this continues today with PRO series. The STAR series, cars came out of the original Russell Racing formula school, were chassis (Hayashi) and engine (Rotary) durability were of prime concern.

On the deal with the Toyota Atlantic series, it is somewhat true that there was a concern. When the original testing was being performed on the PRO cars, it was obvious that a fully developed and fully tuned PRO car was as fast, or faster, than the ATLANTIC cars, at about a 1/3rd the price. There was some internal/industry discussions on this, but I’m not sure what the actual outcome or final effect was on the final version of the PRO car… in my opinion there was some compromise.

I will agree that buying a used STAR Mazda car would be a blast for lapping days!

-Bern

xSxxKxxYx

WEIGHT is a HUGE factor in both Speed and handling!!!
plus... they never said anything about "added" parts.. just using the same engine....
could have heavy mods done to it!!
plus... F1 cars are just designed SOOO much BETTER!!!

Icemastr

No the engine does not have heavy mods to it. Its pretty much the same exact engine in your RX-8 except a different exhaust, intake, and ECU all of which dont have much of an affet on performance as the differences are all to suit the chassis and race specifications.

Lschiavo

I don't know where you guys keep reading that the New Pro Formula Mazda is limited to 6,800 RPM.. That is the old formula mazda that used the RX7 engine. The new FM with the renesis engine is limited to 8,300 RPM and only weighs 1300 lbs (driver included)... That is why it really goes 0-60 in about 3 seconds. We also have different gears, engine mapping and flywheel. Speed channel is broadcasting the last race today at 4 am (eastern time)... Don't miss the action!
Look for the red car #1, that's me! :D

For info www.starmazda.com

LS

Charles Cope

Congratulations on your win!

DOMINION

This just in F1 out runs F18!!!



http://aserverjustfor.us/videos/Car%...truns_F18.mpeg

BlueEyes

thats not even f1, its indy. Although, I don't know how they compare in straight lines.

rotarygod

Let's see the Indy car outrun the F-18 off of a carrier deck! Ignore the sharp drop off and the water. He wouldn't beat the catapult. It also wouldn't take the F-18 very long to catch up. I'll bet his top speed is slightly higher. The Indy car may have been moving pretty fast at the end of that race but the F-18 was flyin'.