RX-8 vs R32
09-07-2003, 05:54 PM
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RX-8 vs R32
http://www.evo.co.uk/ (no direct link)
The Fast and the Curious
Our favourite superhatch, the four-wheel-drive Golf R32, has an unlikely new challenger - the quirky new, rotary-engined, pillarless Mazda RX-8
September 2003
Mazda RX-8 v VW Golf R32
ew new cars have laid it on the line as frankly as the Mazda RX-8. It's tempting to think of it as a cautious diffuser of ideas, meticulously smudging the lines between saloon and coupe, purist sports car and executive smoothie. Its pitch smacks of contrived ambiguity. But it might just be one of the great doubt-free zones of recent times. If you buy an RX-8 you're not buying some bogus genre-bender, the reasoning goes, but an alternative mindset. Leave the ludicrous attribute-fusing to the 'motro' and oh-so 'spafe' Nissan Micra, the RX-8 really is radical: aesthetically, conceptually and propulsively.
And that's a stroke of genius straight off. The RX-8 isn't just the world's only rotary-engined car, it has no direct rivals at all. Does this make it an outcast? In a sense it does. But it also means it will be gatecrashing some of the best parties in town. Few BMW 325i drivers can have given a thought to what it would take to get them inside a Mazda showroom. They will now. Audi TT owners, too. And aspiring Nissan 350Z pilots. Even the hardcore hot hatch brigade. The RX-8 isn't mucho-macho, but how can you ignore 228bhp at 8200rpm, a 9400rpm red-line, a shape that makes even the Alfa 147 GTA's look straight-laced, and backward opening rear doors with more kerbside theatre than a row of Merc SLs in hood stow mode? You can't. And, at £22,000 for this, the more powerful of the two models, you shouldn't.
As we hinted at end of our megahatch showdown back in March, there's so much going on with the RX-8 it will probably star in a cross-genre span of group tests after it goes on sale over here in October. But, for us, it's pretty obvious where you start: with VW's Golf R32. Not only is the R32 the megahatch we like the most but, as with the Mazda, so much more than a one-trick pony.
Four-wheel drive projects its appeal deep into Audi quattro territory (damagingly for Audi because it outhandles the S3), its Phaeton-sourced 3.2-litre V6 delivers senior exec smoothness and flexibility in addition to heavy-duty stonk. And, of course, being a Golf guarantees oodles of sensible stuff to lubricate the mechanics of everyday motoring. It might not be the fastest or hardest of its type, but it is the most deftly multi-faceted and multi-talented. And that, along with its highly competitive £22,340 price, makes it a potent foil for the do-it-all Mazda.
It's the contrasts as well as the similarities that fascinate. Where the two come closest is in headline power, claimed performance and price. The Mazda's tiny 1308cc normally-aspirated twin-rotor Renesis engine (shorthand for rotary re-genesis) trails the Golf's snugly shoehorned 3179cc, 24-valve, V6 by just 9bhp, but needs to have wound on another 2000 revs before it's realised. The svelter build is the 1394kg RX-8's, though, handing it a power/weight ratio advantage of 166bhp/ton to the 1512kg Golf's 159bhp/ton. Perhaps more tellingly, the updated Wankel engine is absolutely blitzed for torque by the German car, developing its modest 156lb ft at a frenzied 5500rpm whereas the R32's thumping 236lb ft is on call at just 2800rpm.
Both have six-speed gearboxes with sprint-orientated gearing - understandably so in the Mazda's case to compensate for the paucity of low-speed grunt but with the R32 the extra ratio seems designed more to massage the already punchy demeanour of the barrel-chested V6.
Given all of which, they're surprisingly close over the classic benchmark sprint. Mazda claims 0-62mph in 6.4sec for the RX-8 which, if confirmed, will more than match the 6.4sec 0-60mph time we recorded for the Golf, though this was in the wet. Call it a draw. It's probably just as well factory in-gear figures for the Mazda aren't available; we can't help thinking they'd be murdered by the Golf which, picking just one example, tears through the 50-70mph fourth gear increment in 5.8sec. Flat-out on the autobahn, too, the Mazda's driver would have to watch the Golf's chunky rump and quad exhausts gradually disappear over the horizon: 146 plays 154mph.
But, as we've discovered so often, test track acceleration stats and the real world aren't the same place. Nor should figures be the defining factor in this clash. The real value of these cars is first and foremost embedded in what they do for the driver's feelgood receptors and satisfaction glands.
On the way from Bologna airport to our hotel by the sea in Rimini, it becomes clear that in any case there's not much in it for straight-line pace. On the autostrada, the Golf's higher claimed top speed gives it no appreciable edge in the 100-130mph zone. And on country roads, the Mazda's anticipated performance deficit seems more modest still. Partly this is due to the perfect matching of engine characteristics and the ratios of its six-speed gearbox. First and second spin up enough turbine-smooth thrust to slingshot the RX-8 right into contention with the raucous R32, despite the all-drive Teuton's bludgeoning torque and from-rest traction advantage, while third, fourth and fifth sustain a seductively silky surge that reaches out for the far side of 130mph. Settled in sixth, the almost electric hum of engine note merging with the modest levels of wind rush and road roar, it makes a superbly chilled cruiser.
Supporting this is terrific straight-line stability and a special kind of finely-tuned suppleness that smooths away fatigue along with the bumps, dips and ruts. This is not unconnected with the Mazda's 50:50 weight distribution and the fact that its twin-rotor motor is set so far back in the engine bay, well behind the front axle. The Golf's good for the long haul, too, but its suspension's more fidgety than the Mazda's and its engine considerably more vocal. It's a more sonorous, power-drenched sound, too, but the Golf simply doesn't have the serene mien or extraordinary, arrow-like security of the Japanese car.
Both cars have great gearshifts, though: low effort, rigidly gated and precise. The RX-8's is marginally notchier and, because of the sheer necessity to hook up the rotary engine's top end charge and keep it flowing, it gets more grief when you're going for it. Wringing maximum effort out of the R32 is less physically interactive, but its big V6's vivid throttle response and fat mid-band performance still has more built-in excitement.
On the squirling hillside roads, fifty or so miles in from the coast, the grunt/grip equations are tellingly resolved. The Golf plants the larger acreage of sticky, ZR-rated rubber on the road, though both cars' tyres are the same 18in diameter. Super-stiff sidewalls, Haldex torque-apportioning four-wheel drive and sophisticated traction control systems breeze the responsibility of managing the power and torque on tap in the R32. In normal fast motoring, you never get even the whiff of an impression that the rear tyres are wrestling with those at the front over which should lead the way.
By and large, though, the Golf is outclassed when it comes to changing direction. Although the Mazda can't match the R32's remarkable grip and traction out of tight bends, it feels the more transparent, fluent and incisive car to drive through random twists, with crisper responses and a more intimate sense of control. The RX-8's power steering is lighter but even more direct than the VW's and brimming with feel, whereas the R32's can occasionally seem a little synthetic behind the reassuring weight at the rim. You really do get the impression that the Mazda's tyres aren't having to work so hard to contain the mass of its engine. It feels beautifully balanced and predictable.
Switch the traction controls off and the contrast between the two cars is intriguing. On extreme uphill hairpins like our photographic corner, the opportunity to generate some slip at the rear works to the RX-8's advantage, effectively neutralising what would be a tendency to understeer. The Golf will slide too, but it was more of a handful on the bumpy photographic bend, failing to settle into a consistent attitude as its four-wheel-drive system constantly scavenged for grip, aggressively shifting torque from one axle to the other. It felt better with the traction control left on. Both machines have impressively strong, progressive braking, though the Golf's ultimate stopping power and pedal feel shade the Mazda's.
Inside, the circular themes and soft, enveloping forms of the RX-8's cabin contrast strikingly with the R32's overtly angular architecture and the overall effect is altogether cosier and more cocooning. Which won't suit everyone, of course. The Golf is the pukka four-seater, the Mazda wings it. We can't imagine anyone wanting to do a long trip in the back of the RX-8 if the R32 was the alternative, no matter how novel the means of entry. That said, the Mazda's rear seats are actually more comfortable. As are its front seats which, while not as aggressively sculpted as the Golf's Recaros, offer just as much support and form part of a more relaxed driving position.
In the end it's a close call. The sophisticated face of superhatchdom as represented by the Golf R32 is a potent force at just over £22K. Too good for Audi's S3, too good for Ford's hardcore Focus RS and too good for Alfa's charismatic 147 GTA. It has real breadth of talent and convincing answers for every road, all weather conditions and a driver's fickle moods. It's powered by a truly muscular powerplant with a musical exhaust note and heavy-hitting delivery. You'd buy this car for the noise its engine makes, the grip and cut of its chassis, the tactile pleasures of its build and finish. It's still the most capable and desirable fast hatch on the planet.
But the RX-8 is sexier. Better looking. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. Almost as fast. Better balanced. More fun to drive down a truly demanding road. And, perhaps because of all of that, more interesting. No, it doesn't have the Golf's macho bark. Nor its grip and instantly accessible grunt. If you're in a hot hatch frame of mind, it just won't do. But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy.
Words/Pictures: David Vivian/Andy Morgan
The Fast and the Curious
Our favourite superhatch, the four-wheel-drive Golf R32, has an unlikely new challenger - the quirky new, rotary-engined, pillarless Mazda RX-8
September 2003
Mazda RX-8 v VW Golf R32
ew new cars have laid it on the line as frankly as the Mazda RX-8. It's tempting to think of it as a cautious diffuser of ideas, meticulously smudging the lines between saloon and coupe, purist sports car and executive smoothie. Its pitch smacks of contrived ambiguity. But it might just be one of the great doubt-free zones of recent times. If you buy an RX-8 you're not buying some bogus genre-bender, the reasoning goes, but an alternative mindset. Leave the ludicrous attribute-fusing to the 'motro' and oh-so 'spafe' Nissan Micra, the RX-8 really is radical: aesthetically, conceptually and propulsively.
And that's a stroke of genius straight off. The RX-8 isn't just the world's only rotary-engined car, it has no direct rivals at all. Does this make it an outcast? In a sense it does. But it also means it will be gatecrashing some of the best parties in town. Few BMW 325i drivers can have given a thought to what it would take to get them inside a Mazda showroom. They will now. Audi TT owners, too. And aspiring Nissan 350Z pilots. Even the hardcore hot hatch brigade. The RX-8 isn't mucho-macho, but how can you ignore 228bhp at 8200rpm, a 9400rpm red-line, a shape that makes even the Alfa 147 GTA's look straight-laced, and backward opening rear doors with more kerbside theatre than a row of Merc SLs in hood stow mode? You can't. And, at £22,000 for this, the more powerful of the two models, you shouldn't.
As we hinted at end of our megahatch showdown back in March, there's so much going on with the RX-8 it will probably star in a cross-genre span of group tests after it goes on sale over here in October. But, for us, it's pretty obvious where you start: with VW's Golf R32. Not only is the R32 the megahatch we like the most but, as with the Mazda, so much more than a one-trick pony.
Four-wheel drive projects its appeal deep into Audi quattro territory (damagingly for Audi because it outhandles the S3), its Phaeton-sourced 3.2-litre V6 delivers senior exec smoothness and flexibility in addition to heavy-duty stonk. And, of course, being a Golf guarantees oodles of sensible stuff to lubricate the mechanics of everyday motoring. It might not be the fastest or hardest of its type, but it is the most deftly multi-faceted and multi-talented. And that, along with its highly competitive £22,340 price, makes it a potent foil for the do-it-all Mazda.
It's the contrasts as well as the similarities that fascinate. Where the two come closest is in headline power, claimed performance and price. The Mazda's tiny 1308cc normally-aspirated twin-rotor Renesis engine (shorthand for rotary re-genesis) trails the Golf's snugly shoehorned 3179cc, 24-valve, V6 by just 9bhp, but needs to have wound on another 2000 revs before it's realised. The svelter build is the 1394kg RX-8's, though, handing it a power/weight ratio advantage of 166bhp/ton to the 1512kg Golf's 159bhp/ton. Perhaps more tellingly, the updated Wankel engine is absolutely blitzed for torque by the German car, developing its modest 156lb ft at a frenzied 5500rpm whereas the R32's thumping 236lb ft is on call at just 2800rpm.
Both have six-speed gearboxes with sprint-orientated gearing - understandably so in the Mazda's case to compensate for the paucity of low-speed grunt but with the R32 the extra ratio seems designed more to massage the already punchy demeanour of the barrel-chested V6.
Given all of which, they're surprisingly close over the classic benchmark sprint. Mazda claims 0-62mph in 6.4sec for the RX-8 which, if confirmed, will more than match the 6.4sec 0-60mph time we recorded for the Golf, though this was in the wet. Call it a draw. It's probably just as well factory in-gear figures for the Mazda aren't available; we can't help thinking they'd be murdered by the Golf which, picking just one example, tears through the 50-70mph fourth gear increment in 5.8sec. Flat-out on the autobahn, too, the Mazda's driver would have to watch the Golf's chunky rump and quad exhausts gradually disappear over the horizon: 146 plays 154mph.
But, as we've discovered so often, test track acceleration stats and the real world aren't the same place. Nor should figures be the defining factor in this clash. The real value of these cars is first and foremost embedded in what they do for the driver's feelgood receptors and satisfaction glands.
On the way from Bologna airport to our hotel by the sea in Rimini, it becomes clear that in any case there's not much in it for straight-line pace. On the autostrada, the Golf's higher claimed top speed gives it no appreciable edge in the 100-130mph zone. And on country roads, the Mazda's anticipated performance deficit seems more modest still. Partly this is due to the perfect matching of engine characteristics and the ratios of its six-speed gearbox. First and second spin up enough turbine-smooth thrust to slingshot the RX-8 right into contention with the raucous R32, despite the all-drive Teuton's bludgeoning torque and from-rest traction advantage, while third, fourth and fifth sustain a seductively silky surge that reaches out for the far side of 130mph. Settled in sixth, the almost electric hum of engine note merging with the modest levels of wind rush and road roar, it makes a superbly chilled cruiser.
Supporting this is terrific straight-line stability and a special kind of finely-tuned suppleness that smooths away fatigue along with the bumps, dips and ruts. This is not unconnected with the Mazda's 50:50 weight distribution and the fact that its twin-rotor motor is set so far back in the engine bay, well behind the front axle. The Golf's good for the long haul, too, but its suspension's more fidgety than the Mazda's and its engine considerably more vocal. It's a more sonorous, power-drenched sound, too, but the Golf simply doesn't have the serene mien or extraordinary, arrow-like security of the Japanese car.
Both cars have great gearshifts, though: low effort, rigidly gated and precise. The RX-8's is marginally notchier and, because of the sheer necessity to hook up the rotary engine's top end charge and keep it flowing, it gets more grief when you're going for it. Wringing maximum effort out of the R32 is less physically interactive, but its big V6's vivid throttle response and fat mid-band performance still has more built-in excitement.
On the squirling hillside roads, fifty or so miles in from the coast, the grunt/grip equations are tellingly resolved. The Golf plants the larger acreage of sticky, ZR-rated rubber on the road, though both cars' tyres are the same 18in diameter. Super-stiff sidewalls, Haldex torque-apportioning four-wheel drive and sophisticated traction control systems breeze the responsibility of managing the power and torque on tap in the R32. In normal fast motoring, you never get even the whiff of an impression that the rear tyres are wrestling with those at the front over which should lead the way.
By and large, though, the Golf is outclassed when it comes to changing direction. Although the Mazda can't match the R32's remarkable grip and traction out of tight bends, it feels the more transparent, fluent and incisive car to drive through random twists, with crisper responses and a more intimate sense of control. The RX-8's power steering is lighter but even more direct than the VW's and brimming with feel, whereas the R32's can occasionally seem a little synthetic behind the reassuring weight at the rim. You really do get the impression that the Mazda's tyres aren't having to work so hard to contain the mass of its engine. It feels beautifully balanced and predictable.
Switch the traction controls off and the contrast between the two cars is intriguing. On extreme uphill hairpins like our photographic corner, the opportunity to generate some slip at the rear works to the RX-8's advantage, effectively neutralising what would be a tendency to understeer. The Golf will slide too, but it was more of a handful on the bumpy photographic bend, failing to settle into a consistent attitude as its four-wheel-drive system constantly scavenged for grip, aggressively shifting torque from one axle to the other. It felt better with the traction control left on. Both machines have impressively strong, progressive braking, though the Golf's ultimate stopping power and pedal feel shade the Mazda's.
Inside, the circular themes and soft, enveloping forms of the RX-8's cabin contrast strikingly with the R32's overtly angular architecture and the overall effect is altogether cosier and more cocooning. Which won't suit everyone, of course. The Golf is the pukka four-seater, the Mazda wings it. We can't imagine anyone wanting to do a long trip in the back of the RX-8 if the R32 was the alternative, no matter how novel the means of entry. That said, the Mazda's rear seats are actually more comfortable. As are its front seats which, while not as aggressively sculpted as the Golf's Recaros, offer just as much support and form part of a more relaxed driving position.
In the end it's a close call. The sophisticated face of superhatchdom as represented by the Golf R32 is a potent force at just over £22K. Too good for Audi's S3, too good for Ford's hardcore Focus RS and too good for Alfa's charismatic 147 GTA. It has real breadth of talent and convincing answers for every road, all weather conditions and a driver's fickle moods. It's powered by a truly muscular powerplant with a musical exhaust note and heavy-hitting delivery. You'd buy this car for the noise its engine makes, the grip and cut of its chassis, the tactile pleasures of its build and finish. It's still the most capable and desirable fast hatch on the planet.
But the RX-8 is sexier. Better looking. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. Almost as fast. Better balanced. More fun to drive down a truly demanding road. And, perhaps because of all of that, more interesting. No, it doesn't have the Golf's macho bark. Nor its grip and instantly accessible grunt. If you're in a hot hatch frame of mind, it just won't do. But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy.
Words/Pictures: David Vivian/Andy Morgan
09-09-2003, 02:02 PM
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The interesting thing about the comparison is that there isn't much difference between the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of the RX-8 and the R32.
I would think that the R32 should have an good edge on the 0-60. The 4-motion AWD should give the R32 more traction off the line and the low end torque should make the launches very easy.
The writer's comparison of 236 ft-lbs R32 and 156 ft-lbs Euro RX-8 makes it look like the RX-8 is "absolutely blitzed" in the torque department but the 0-60 results are suggesting that the Euro 156 ft-lb RX-8 may be putting out similar wheel torque to the 236 ft-lb R32.
It is amazing that so many people are unaware that engine torque figures by themselves are absolutely meaningless.
It would be interesting to know the gearing ratios on the R32.
Brian
I would think that the R32 should have an good edge on the 0-60. The 4-motion AWD should give the R32 more traction off the line and the low end torque should make the launches very easy.
The writer's comparison of 236 ft-lbs R32 and 156 ft-lbs Euro RX-8 makes it look like the RX-8 is "absolutely blitzed" in the torque department but the 0-60 results are suggesting that the Euro 156 ft-lb RX-8 may be putting out similar wheel torque to the 236 ft-lb R32.
It is amazing that so many people are unaware that engine torque figures by themselves are absolutely meaningless.
It would be interesting to know the gearing ratios on the R32.
Brian
09-22-2003, 07:39 AM
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I really like this statement:
"But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy."
Reading these forums is making it harder for me to wait on the 8.
"But if you believe that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the quickest, but those that blend dynamics and performance so seamlessly and cohesively that the driving experience is a powerful singularity rather than a collection of dazzling party tricks, the RX-8 hits the sweet spot with uncanny accuracy."
Reading these forums is making it harder for me to wait on the 8.
09-22-2003, 07:51 AM
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If you want to see the web page with pics etc, the actual link to the story is the first link on this thread below....
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9921
Cheers
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9921
Cheers
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