RX-8 Sales numbers for April are out (and they hurl)
 

I guess the good news is discount and incentives will HAVE to come now - they can't sell them without. I wish I knew how many of the 1,001 they sold were 2004 models.....

Dennis



Mazda North American Operations - April 2005

Month-To-Date Year-To-Date

April April % April April %
2005 2004 Change 2005 2004 Change

RX8 1,001 2,207 -54.6% 5,918 8,234 -28.1%

Oh well, less on the road = more unique car.

yeah....down 54.6% is pretty damn bad

they didnt have any to sell- fire

That is BOGUS!

Every dealer I talked to has tons of 05s just sitting on the lot and most have several 04s as well.

Mazda and the dealers are lucky they had the plant fire, or they would have had to stop production - or the dealers would be swimming in 8s (and they are already).


Dennis

350z sales are off too (but still 2.8x more sold):

Apr 05 Apr 04 YTD 05 YTD 04
350Z 2,883 3,123 -11.1% 9,477 11,266 -15.9%


G35 coupe numbers (2.5x sold):

G35 Coupe 2,556 2,532 -2.8% 8,637 9,551 -9.6%


Honda has not released the S2000 numbers yet, but I bet the 8 out sold it.

Dennis

I think I'm going to join a lawn-bowling league.

Well, 241 more 8s sold than S2000s...

S2000 760 856 -14.5% 2,276 2,687 -15.3%

Dennis

did they tell what their allocations were and how many of the allocation they actuallyt got? they got stuck with whatever was here with nothing new coming. whatever options were on cars in their areas is what they had to sell period. less choices for the customer=less sales

^true true. i'm not too worried didn't the rx-8 out sell teh 350z 2:1 last year?

^ in Canada

more unique sounds fine to me

I'd definitely be inclined to agree with the fire affecting sales to some extent. I doubt it's accountable for even half the decline though.

Out of 6 local dealers, many of which are some of the biggest Mazda dealers in the nation, there's only 90 RX-8s; just a couple weeks ago it was less than 50. Less than half are MTXs. And now, even with a bunch more coming in, not a single one are equipped how I want mine to be equipped, they're almost all either Base or Loaded. Not much of an option. Makes me a little uneasy about getting one that I want later this summer on clearance too.

In Puerto Rico too

The car looks great, so the only thing I can think of is that either people think it is too expensive, or they are scared away by it's quirks and issues. If I had not test driven a car, and I heard from someone (or came on this forum), and read that it had issues with flooding, oil, horsepower, torque, and fuel economy, I would probably never give it a second thought. I am glad that I test drove one before I got too heavily involved in this forum though. I don't think most people are open minded enough to give it a chance, especially with the sticker price nearing or exceeding $30K (before the incentives obviously). And I think gas prices and the threat of even higher prices are making people think long and hard about their car choices. Will this effect future RX-8 releases? Is our resale going to take another hit?

The S2000 is a super car, and has been since it was introduced. Good gas mileage and not many "issues". The 8 out sold it last year and will this year too. Just not that big a market for $30k and up convertibles. The issue with both cars is lack of torque and low end power - most folks just don't "get" these cars and those that do not all can afford them. Pretty unique cars require unique owners, I guess. The Z/G35 are more "mainstream" so they sell a lot more. For those that put a premium on handling and a "tossable" car - they "Get" it.

Dennis

The main reason why the RX-8s numbers are down? MUSTANG GT. The Mustang is cheaper, has way more power than the 8. Even if it's not as good a handler or doesn't look as good, it will outsell the 8 and I bet if half of the people interested in the 8 would drive one they probably buy one. Also, there's the new Cobalt SS, Pontiac Solstice, The prices have come down on the GTO, etc. There are too many cars out there that are direct competitors to the 8. The RX8 needs more power.

i agree with the new mustang statement, but not so much w/ the cobalt, solstice, or GTO statement.

I think the front end on the new Mustangs is great. Whenever I see one in my rearview, I always have to stare. But I think the rear end is absolutely hideous. Plus, I think I would have to describe the interior as spartan. I've never driven one, but I don't imagine it handles as nicely or accelerates as smoothly as the RX-8. I'm not so sure the people who would be interested by the 8 would be the same people who would buy a Mustang. One is raw power, the other is refined performance.

The US sales of the Prius are up 196% :eek: ...to 11435 in April . That's more than the S2000, RX-8, 350Z and G35 coupe combined.

April RX-8.............1001
April G35 coupe....2556
April 350Z.............2883
April S2000...........760

Gomez.

sheesh, those numbers are pathetic. i'm starting to worry now. I sure hope this car is not a flop.

Looks like the oil price are having an effect. Wonder how it will take for Mazda to come out with the hybid rotary engine sport car?

March 2005 sales figures were up on March 2004.

March 2005 RX-8 sales in the US.....2489 units. Same time last year there were 2373 RX-8's sold.

I'm sure this is just due to the factory fire and reduced supply. Sales are not going to drop from 2489 to 1001 in one month without some exceptional reason.

Gomez.

While I do agree reduced supply plays a large part (as noted in my earlier post), it is possible to get that kind of sales loss, not from one exceptional reason, but from a variety of them both big and all.

In March, not only was the supply from Japan still trickling in, there were also considerably more '04s to be found than in April. With the prices of '04s and the amount of them in inventory, they definitely ballooned sales figures beyond what a non-incentived RX-8 inventory could maintain.

So, yes, March of '04 looks pretty decent compared to March of '03 -- but there weren't thousands of previous-year models on the lots for $8000 off sticker in '03 either. Remove '04s from March's sales and I bet you find a large difference somewhat comparable to the distinct decline we're seeing in last month's sales.

And then there's a variety of other reasons -- a general decline in the market for sport-coupes, increased competition from other sources (namely the new Mustang), and a rather significant increase in gas prices (over last year) and matching drop of overall consumer confidence in the short and long-term oil market, amongst some other reasons, all lead to a decline in sales.

Mazda has already sold more than 100,000 worldwide, so it can't be considered a flop, not yet anyway. However, whether it's the fire, gas prices, or just the changing tastes of trendy sporty car buyers remains to be seen. Regardless, Mazda needs to inject something new, "ehemm power boost", for the 2006 model year. An EVO killer Mazdaspeed version would surely spark up more interest as well.

If they don't do something and sales are worse in '06, that can't be good news for fans who want to see the rotary succeed. It could even cause senior Mazda brass to axe any plans for a 4th gen RX-7.

Or they can be really ballzie and be the first to come out with production Hybrid Rotary sport car. Cash in on the hybrid bandwagon and make a pretty kick ass performance vehicle.

Mustang 19,559 15,538 25.9 61,820 51,877 19.2

The Mustang GT is an "inexpensive" performance car and the new version looks nice, but I would say that that is about a 180 degree opposite of the 8. I think the problem is most folks (the great unwashed?) don't care about light, great handling cars. Having a big v-8 (or large V-6) under foot is much more important to them.

Dennis

And if you are like me... you'd never buy an american car. :D

Yeah, I am done with American cars, especially Ford.

The Mustang is super popular. They sold 17926 in March (an increase of 13.5% on same time last year). April's sales figures are 9% higher than that again, at 19,559 as stated above. The Mustang is now Fords third biggest seller. Sales are up 19% for the year to date. They're ramping up production too.

Number one in sales, the F-Series have dropped 6.6% for the year to date, and the number two Explorer has dropped 22.5%. Mustang will probably be Ford's number two by years end.

The new Mustang is a major hit for Ford.

Gomez.

i agree, a car that is made by ton, has lots of power and doesnt cost much is hard to beat. the 8 does take a special kind of person and this hurts the car.

the "most folks" comment reminds when i was at the dealership a few months ago talking to the service guy and he said do you want to watch me unflood a 8 (in under 5 minutes :cool: ? i said sure and followed him to the car. the car was super dirty inside and out and to make a long story short the car was so flooded he never could get it start (auto). about a week later i saw the same 8 at dealership across the street. btw way it was female owner (not knocking women im know there alot of ignorant car owning males too). point of that story is people want something they can drive into the ground w/o thought and the 8 is not that car. so once again the 8 does take a special kind of person and this hurts the car

I too have to agree about the Mustang stealing sales from the RX-8. The numbers show the 350z and other sports cars down as well. I haven't made my final decission yet but the RX-8 and the 05 Mustang are my leading two. The RX-8 has a lot of class, style and finess. But on the other hand the Mustang looks good, is cheap, and unlike most people a Ford appeals to me. I grew up maintaining my Mom's 63 Ford Galaxie and my Dad's 72 Ford Ranchero. The RX draws me in because it's different, the Mustang because it's familiar.

I think alot of people have that familiarity feeling when it comes to the retro styling of the new Mustang. And people like cheaper cars. :)

Is there such a thing as an "American" car anymore?

I will admit that I had lots of problems with my C5 'vette convertible (made in KY) and did have some problems with my Ford SVT (made in MO) - but I am not sure what is "American" in most cases.

Aren't most GMs made in Canada and Mexico now? Totoya in KY, Nissan in TN and AL, Honda in OH, Subaru in IN, etc. Mazda is now part of Ford as is Volvo and some of the cars share a platform across all the car platforms and some of the "Japanese" brand Mazdas are made here in a Ford plant.

So you can say you want to avoid an American BRANDED car or you could say you want avoid an American BUILT car or you could say you want to avoid an American DESIGNED car. I would guess it is getting harder to avoid all three, though.

Dennis

Then I guess I would say that after owning a "foreign" car, I don't think I will ever buy another vehicle with Ford, GM or Chrysler on it. I just think the quality, craftsmanship and value are in the "foreign" vehicles.

Well....I'm one of the new Mustang fans and ended up buying the 8 (and very glad I did!). Once I got over the fact that I really didn't need over 300hp, a cheap looking interior, and literally no back seat, the choice was easy. Also looking at the two cars side by side, the 8 certainly has it in the styling department (I also dislike that rear of the new stang).

I'm absolutely certain that the Mustang will outsell the 8 by miles and will also take away potential buyers (more so now with the recent intro of the convertible stang).
The 'general' public knows and absolutely recognizes the Mustang nameplate and that alone with sell thousands of vehicles (and it should with over 40 years of production). The RX8 is basically an unknown in the whole scheme of cars......it is not recognized (just think about how many people have asked you 'what kind of car is that?). It is truly a unknown jewel.....actually, I've had many people look at the car and not realize that there were back-seats (and plenty of room for a full sized adult). Maybe that is part of the issue with sales. People look at this car as a 2 seat 'exotic' sportscar. Marketing/Publicity on Mazda'a part may also be partly at fault here.
Anyway, I'm glad that I can drive down the road and not see 3-4-5 or more 8's on my way to the store.....the uniqueness of owning this car is great!

You're right. Becoming much more difficult to discern.

Just look at the Mazda 6 versus the Mazda 3. I'll be kind and just say the 6 has some "issues" quality - wise. The 6 has a fair degree of "Ford input" and is made in the "Mazda plant" in Michigan. (BTW, Ford owns 33% of Mazda.) The 3 on the other hand is almost pure Mazda (except for being stuck with a variant of a Ford engine). To me, the 3 is almost jewel-like while the 6 has a rough edge.

There are many other examples.

The Pontiac Vibe is a high quality Toyota design made in California by Toyota. The Pontiac G6... well, I just won't say.

The Mazda SUV and pickup are Fords with different badging. The small Volvo is a Mazda 3 under the skin. The Saab 9-2 is a Subaru WRX. The new Saab SUV is a Chevy built in Canada by a joint venture of GM and Suzuki.

Isuzu pickups and SUV's are Chevies with badges. Used to be (many years ago) the small Chevy pickup was an Isuzu.

BMW Z4 is made in SC and Mercedes SUV in Alabama.

VW Touareg is made in Slovakia. (Would a potential owner even ponder the fact that it comes from a country that was behind the iron curtain not too many years ago?) The Porsche Cayenne is a Touareg not made in Slovakia. The GTO comes from Australia.

Many cars made in USA have a very high proportion of parts from Taiwan, Singapore, Philippines, etc. OEMs get around the USA content labeling issue (that thing on the sticker that states how much content from what countries) by using clever packaging arrangements. Hence a stereo system containing all internal parts (electronics) from the Far East becomes 100% North American sourced if the box wrapped around it is done in say, a Mexican Maquilladora plant.

just a quick question.

The sales numbers posted in the beginning, is that how many cars Mazda sold to dealers,
or is it how many cars the dealers sold to us end users?

If it where the first, then the plant fire may play a role.

As someone who owns both, I've gotta say that the difference isn't that great. My 6s hasn't had a single iota of an issue. Not even a squeek or rattle. While there are people with problems on 6Club, few are major, and there is no more complaining than there is on 3Club. And, while I give overall interior quality (both material and fit) to the Mazda3, when you consider that my Mazda3s cost more than my Mazda6s out-the-door, despite being smaller with a smaller engine, not having Bose, Leather, SideAirbags, Climate Control and a number of other features, I'd certainly hope that I'd at least get a nice quality interior out of the deal.

The problem will be weight. The charms of the 8 are its light weight and responsive handling, putting electric motors and batteries would likely increase the weight and dull the nimbleness of the car.

As for why sales are down, I think Mazda overestimated the market for the car and sales will settle into numbers significantly lower than the first year. The first year the car is fresh and attracting a new audience, also, it satisfied the long time cravings of rotary fans for a new car. The car is no longer first year fresh, and a large portion of the rotary crowd that will by an 8 now has an 8. Additionally, the market for sports cars has become more competative, as others have mentioned. Finally, this is more of an enthusiats car than most of its competition, it takes a little more to care for the 8 than most of its competition and it gets real world gas milage like a mid-sized SUV during a time of high gas prices.

I think the solution to the problem of having too many 8s on the lots is to re-think the sales targets and lower sales expectations in the US.

At this time of year car sales are usually down anyway. But like mikeb said less is more [for me].

By the way, the motors available in the 3 are not variants of a Ford motor. Some of the Fords are using variants of these Mazda motors.

Similar example is the Audi TT that is made in Hungary.

yeah from where im from the car is too expensive for anyone and the fact that the gas prices are up. everyone around here wants 30 mi. to the gallon. but also people who want to buy the car cant get loans for it and they just think insurence will kill them. but yeah to go with the subject there was no cars to pick from 2004. when i was there, i had 4 to choose from or pay 32000 to ship one up to me. but i found a yellow one that had everything on it and got them down to 23000 and got it. but the good thing is that in my town theres only two people who own one. me and the guy who owns the holiday automotive. and in a 50 mi radius theres only 3 counting me. so i think thats cool, like a guy said on a different thread it makes it more unique. im sure some more will buy it at the end of the year with all the rebates and end of the year close out sales.

So much misinformation in one short paragraph. :rolleyes:

-If the 6 has "issues" quality wise, then so does the 8, the 3, the Tribute, the Miata and the MPV. It's right in line with those, meaning it's either reliable, or unreliable, depending on which import-snob you're talking to.
-The 6 doesn't have a fair degree of input from Ford, other than the block Mazda took for its engines. It's a Mazda-designed platform, period.
-The 6's isn't made in a "Mazda plant" since it's co-owned and operated by it and Ford (AutoAlliance).
-The 3 isn't "stuck" with a variant of a Ford engine, it's a Mazda engine that some would say Ford is "stuck" with, since they use it in the Focus.
-The 'jewel-like' 3 has had its unfair share of TSB's and issues itself.

Actually, if you look at Consumer Reports, the 8 and the 6 are rated as below average reliability and the 3 is rated at high reliability (or above average). :) The Miata is the same as the 3. So yes, the 8 and the 6 have reliability issues.

Though personally for me, my 8 hasn't given me much problems (brake squeal, air conditioner which they "fixed" but acts the same still) and my friend with a 6 hasn't had any really either. I don't know anyone with a 3.

As for the thread topic, I dunno what to say. I'm glad sales are going down because I like having a more unique car. I'm sad about it since that probably means less support and a smaller chance that the rotary is going to become more pervasive. Oh well.

Yes, thank you for setting him straight. Ford had little to no involvement with the design of the '6 OR the '3. However, these platforms have done so well that they will be the underpinnings of several new Ford vehicles in the coming years. And you are absolutely right--the 2.3L I-4 found in the Focus, Ranger, and Fusion which comes out later this year is a Mazda engine!

If I could split a grain of salt into 4 equal halves, one forth of a grain would be equal to how much Consumer Reports and their ratings mean to me. :rolleyes:

But since you brought the birdcage-liner up, I would hardly say the either car has 'reliability issues' just because they don't give them their stamp of approval. They base those rankings on such a small number of people that actually return those surveys that it makes no sense to me to actually call something reliable or unreliable as a result.

Don't forget the weather. The late cold snap and snow over most of middle america didn't exactly do wonders for and sports car sales. On month of low sales hardly signifies a time to panic.

I would not panic, just posting the numbers. The only ones who would panic would be folks that decided to sell their 8 for one reason or another and could not get what they want/need out of it. Enthusiasts who enjoy the car don't really care if they sell a lot more of them or not :-)

March 05 was up over March 04, but most of that (we think) was the deep discounts on 04s moving off the lot. It also puts a kabosh on the "theory" that April sales were so slow due to the plant fire and the thought of cold weather = slow sales. I think April sales were slow because in some areas they ran out of 04 8s with options folks wanted - and those that were in the market got a car in March.

Once you see these $4,000 - $5,000 under INVOICE prices for a new 04 car, some dealer offering you an 05 for $100 over invoice just does not make you want to reach for a pen. I think folks would figure - "why don't I wait until the put more money on the 05s and get one cheap like everyone did on the 04s"?

Dennis

I would almost like to think that Mazda is doing some work on a hybrid rotary. Every car company has something they are working on. IMO it would probably be more viable at this time than the hydrogen version.