adamwzl

iTrader: (3)

not bad at all for a sub 30k car compared to sub 90k...

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

An oft overlooked point Adam. Exceptional Mazda bang for the buck, which is why we can afford all the mod's, making it as much a hobby as a superb driving experience.

@!!narotordo

You mean you want the power but with our handling?

Marklar

The FD showed that Mazda has the ability and desire to compete with Porsche in performance.

It also showed that no one wanted an expensive high-end sports car with a low-prestige badge. Mazda has been wanting to go upmarket for quite a while, but people who buy those cars want a badge that says "I'm rich look what I can afford to drive," not "I like a good value when it comes to sports cars."

ASH8

I guess this is where Porsche (and any rear wheel drive Sports Car) has it over all the competition as their cars don't have to comply with front Hood Pedestrian safety regulations in the event of a front collision with a pedestrian...the old 3 inch clear clearance from top of engine to hood...with no engine in the front Porsche can design a much lower fronted Sports Car.

Then you have the A pillar regs of 3 inch clearance between an 'unbelted' passenger and their head (in a collision), which can not hit the top windscreen/sun visor roof rail.

Ever noticed how Porsche Windscreens are taller these days?..like all other new cars.

Then you have the C Pillar rear design regs for rear end collisions (MY 2011~), higher and thicker rear 1/4 panels with increased strength, larger Trunk and back ends.

So, Today Mazda (and others) could not legally Sell or Market an FD RX-7, it would not comply.

I think for memory if a car maker sells a car that does not comply with the design/safety regulations each and every car imported or made in the US has a monetary fine.

ASH8

http://rotarynews.com/node/view/1050

pking1122

The history of the Z06, and the global release/triumph of the GT-R opens the door for competition in that particular segment. Seriously, there are no cars (ZR-1/Viper excluded) under $130k that competes with these 2 that can be had for $85k or less. When you see a GT-R, the badge says "I have some cash, and paid for one the best production performance cars you can get regardless..." When you hear a Z06 at WOT, it says "Don't **** with me." I believe Mazda can make a car would be equal or better than these 2 for less.

Jeison

can anone translate ASH8's into imcompetent for me?

j_tso

GT-R went on the Uncool side of Top Gear's Cool Wall. Hammond says it's cool because it can do supercar things and it costs less.

Clarkson: "So, Rich, what're you driving nowadays?"

Hammond:"I drive a Nissan. . . oh, I see."

j_tso

Here's the relevant bit:

"We know that the 16X uses a new trochoid with greater rotor radius (R) and eccentricity (e) than those of the 10A/12A/13B/RENESIS family, and its rotor width (B or W) is narrower than that of the 13B/RENESIS. "

"To simplify this complex issue a lot: important new in-house combustion research showed that the rotor width B needed reduction for greater efficiency, especially for power generation, but also for improved fuel economy. By treating the face of the rotor as a rectangle, Mazda determined that B should be 76 mm maximum, and 70 mm is even better. Otherwise the burning charge does not reach the full width B, wasting fuel—and note that B for RENESIS exceeds this dimension and a common RX-8 complaint is poor fuel economy."

adamwzl

iTrader: (3)

I cant wait for the 16x to be in production.

pking1122

For an elitist that cares, thats all well and good. A base Carerra, or M3 is waiting for them with their name on it. But there's a huge market of people that could care less about prestige that the car brings, but more about what the car's capability to perform. I'm one of those people. Not to say that I wouldn't love to own a Ferrari, a Porsche, or a Lambo, but more so that I couldn't care less about the attention, or 'props' I'd get for owning one. So to me, the GT-R and Z06 represent a purpose bult car minus the prestige and bullshit that can compete with cars 10x their cost in STOCK form. Both represent cars with large after market support, and can beat any and everything with work put into it. Mazda has the ability to equal, or best Chevy and Nissan, and it would be an amazing thing to see. It just may be the final blow to Porsche that makes them get off their ***, stop making family cars, and innovate. Competition is a beautiful thing.

ASH8

While I don't disagree. What a designer "wants" and what the engineers want can be two or more different things, then you have what marketing wants, then the bean counters.

IMO I just can not see Mazda make a car that is going to appeal to even less consumers in the market, it just won't happen...they can't afford an even lower volume production car.

The more you want the pricer it gets..

I don't know what GTR sales are like but I would image it has died in the *** VERY quickly..

It is a very expensive NISSAN after all.

Rotary Xperiment

Yeah, very true. The GT-R concept was probably conceived before the current economic crisis and went ahead because all the plans were drawn. I would be amazed to see a company like Mazda plan a low volume, high cost, high maintenance vehicle and release it during a time when car companies are going bust...I don't think that's going to happen. We'll be lucky enough to see the 16X in a new RX car.

But you never know, once there is a turn in the economy and there's more demand for high performance, niche cars, then I wouldnt at all be surprised to see Mazda bring out a genuine GT-R rival.

pking1122

GT-Rs are far more common than the 370Zs in this area. IDK, but upper middle class/rich long islanders seem to be in love with it, and it would seem they're not worried about the 'recession', and they clearly aren't feeling the effects. More importantly, I have random people come up and ask me about my used 4 year old virtually bone stock 8 quite often. We won't even talk about the halo effect in would have on selling an affordable rotary offering, and even other Mazda piton offerings. A GT-R killer, even if not profitable, would help the brand image tremendously. The GT-R has done wonders for Nissan's image already.

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

Agreed. I have seen more GT-Rs than 370z's. I've only seen two 370's in fact.

77mjd

Not too much info out on it yet, but go to Lotus's website and check out the 2010 Evora. That thing looks like an orgasm on wheels. Comes in at 2900 lbs and 276 HP. Something like that is exactly what the 16x car can be like. The Evora is a 2 + 2 with a V-6 so if the 16x car would be a 2-seater, it could be much lighter without the extra seats, not to mention the rotary would be way lighter than a V-6.

california style

My banker friend has a GTR.

The OLD generation (of people) might only care about badges, but the upcoming generations, who have got brand aspirations from driving skylines and RX7s on Grand Tourismo and Forza etc, are more willing to give well established Jap performance marques a go. Honda with the NSX, Nissan with the Z cars and GTRs, and Mazda with the RX7, all gained real credibility with users, which can now be built upon with highe end cars. Honda and Mazda both took hits by trying too soon (with the 7 and NSX) to get high value cars with low value brands. However the brands are no longer seen as low value. The new Lexus Coupe for example looks awesome, and Lexus have built a very good brand reputation over the years.

They are now good brands and Hyundai, Kia, etc etc are the low value brands which must build brand awareness and value.

So go Mazda! Let's see something really special. Not crazy expensive, but something really quick, and aspirational for the "pure sports car" image that Mazda like to own.
And make sure it's 16x based!

dmorales

I think this is exactly correct. I mean, for those out there who think they can't make the power with a rotary to be a GTR killer, you are wrong.

I fully believe they can make a car like that, but they can't make a car like that and make money at it. Honestly, they probably make beans on the Rx-8 if anything at all. But think of the specialized manufacturing tools they would need to be producing a car with such specialized rotary parts to only sell a very limited number.
________
MICHIGAN DISPENSIARY

MattMPS

the protoype shown in Frankfurt screams: "we want to do simple, light and very fun-to-drive cars"

Here in EU the response of people and magazine it was enthusiastic (for the proto of mx-5), i think that a rotary sports made in this way could be very interesting.

Guys, german/european sports (excluding SOME Porsche) are "Power-focused",lightness and well balanced chassis are not so common....

Mazda could made a fantastic job with a rotary sports and the mx-5.

-simple but well designed
-light
-well balanced
-price and emissions( mileage) under control.
-plenty of power (16x)


See the new Toyota FT86........

bse50

That's why Mazda is going to share (again) a platform for the mx5 and the next rotary according to what you can read online.
Power means nothing if you've got to brake 40mts earlier down the road
As for Porsches being lightweight... putting them on a scale shows different results than what you would expect, since we are a poor country our flagship sports care are really light instead... But for that price you would buy 7 Mazdas

AJ's Shinka

Go back to the Enfini symbol on that was on the FD's!

delhi

Please bring back the Mazda6 wagon!!!!

ASH8

IMO there will be platform sharing on the next gen MX-5 and RX-?, Mazda does not have the money to have separate ones for a small volume model....Full Stop.

And what is wrong this sharing, the 8 has been extended, but what a platform!, one of the best if not best Platforms.... Ever!, both cars even 8 years after it's initial design is still consistently in the top 3 for handling and chassis rigidity.

What makes anyone think the GTR is a profit maker for Nissan, it has a much smaller sales volume than the RX-8 plus a far greater development and manufacturing cost... I am not suggesting the 8 is in the same league as the GTR, because it is not, but the 8 out handles the GTR....

Symbioticgenius

Furai has a 3 Rotor. No Joke, Furai. GTR Killer. /Thread

I personally believe that with the right lubrication, the rotary engine is a beautifully suited for performance applications. I think that Mazda needs to focus their development with reliability, FOLLOWED by emissions in mind. Stop promoting 5-20 and advocate if not develop better oils. Then drop a 3 rotor in a < 3000lb car, a 2 Rotor in a sub 2500 lb car. Profit like hell.

Also Ash is 99.9% right on every point. But think of this bro:
PPL hear about GTR breaking records. They Think "Hey, Nissans doing pretty good"
GTR looks like the 370 "Damn, it cant be that different, maybe I'll get that, its cheaper"
Over here, Altimas and Maximas crowd the streets more than Toyotas and probably SUV's.
Its all about brand image. Nissan is losing money on making the GTR, but their sales are higher since its inception.

Mazda is probably breaking even with RX8 in sales, but having to reman engines all the time.. who knows, but they make hand over fist with the Miata.