vash_241987

I think mazda should just make a super car with the rotary and be done with. Heck they should just start producing the fuari for the general public.....

ultrataco

...and by "general public" you mean the very wealthy.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

shhhhhhh...someone might hear you!!

and f... al gore too

Symbioticgenius

As far as E-85 Goes. Here in NYC, Prem is about 3.30, Theres a place close to work that has E-85 for 1.89 with a 33% MPG decrease, you are saving money over the long term. If places exist where Premium is 2.20 and Eth is 2. Then obviously the benefit is minor. I however prefer Eth in a Rotary for its cleansing and cooling properties, the likes of which cannot be duplicated even with Meth injection... which is more expensive.

I personally could not care about Greenhouse effects and other Bio BS. but E-85 in a Rotary just makes sense, period.

vash_241987

lol....yes... ok maybe just add twin turbos instead....

imop45

Here in OKC eth is about $2.29. Unleaded is 2:60

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

@%#$ alternative fuel sources. Is it possible yes? Is it practical? For the most part, no. Why aren't cars powered by small nuclear reactors? Its clean energy, powerful, and reliable. BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY ISN'T MAINSTREAM YET. Batteries are a **** poor source of energy. Thats why it takes hundreds of laptop batteries that weigh a metric crap load to run a car for 40 miles. And they're expensive as hell too. I understand people wanting more fuel efficient cars, but keep it where it belongs. Quit trying to force sports cars to be more fuel efficient. I swear to god when the economy improves and the oil crises is over I'm going to go onto the Prius forums and say "Several studies have shown that the Toyota Prius is responsible for 8.6399% of depression in adults. This means that starting in 20XX all Prius' must have at least 250 bhp, HUD, close-ratio manual transmission, and a limited-slip differential."

Kind of ruins the point doesn't it?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Series hybrid.

The technology exists, and has existed for a hell of a long time.

Train locomotives. A diesel engine as a generator for the electric motors that actually power the train. I don't know if they have batteries or not, but I doubt it. Seen that commercial recently? CSX or something, move 100,000 tons of freight 100 miles on 1 gallon of gas? I don't remember the exact numbers, but they are staggering compared to even the most fuel efficient commuter car.

These parallel hybrids are doing it wrong. Lots of wasted development cost.

Once the trucks and commuter cars get to series hybrid, consumption plummets and us petrol-heads can use the gas for fun.

Hell, they could even do tiny series hybrid on sports cars without sacrificing performance, if you build it into the transmission so that it goes into series hybrid when you enter the highest gear. Use the lower ones for acceleration, highest one for insanely efficient cruise. Win win.


Edit:
Searched a bit: http://www.kcsouthern.com/en-us/Gene...fficiency.aspx

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

True, but how much does one of them weigh? How expensive are they? And how expensive would it be to convert that technology into daily use on a car?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I'm not saying it's a direct swap...just that all it needs is downsizing. If the R+D that went into parallel hybrid had instead going into series hybrid, it would have been easily possible

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

We may never know. But I agree the current "hybrid" technology blows. And the series hybrid technology may work on paper, but again it ultimately comes down to the technology not being mainstream. Thus the costs of trying to downsize it skyrocket, its not practical or very well supported, and you pay a ridiculous premium for the tech.

If people really need to save money on gas (understandable these days) buy a Civic. Doesn't VW have a diesel car available that gets 70+ mpg?

imop45

isn't the Volt series hybrid?

after 40 miles the 1.6L motor turns on to recharge the batteries.

I don't believe the gas motor hooks to the drivetrain, just a generator.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the Volt is technically a series hybrid.

Running the power through the battery is a drawback though, unless you do ~20 miles or less a day and can leave it plugged in the rest of the time.

A true series hybrid has the combustion engine directly powering the electric motors.

I keep going back to the Frasier-Nash Namir as the example.

Granted, they styled it as a supercar, a commuter car doesn't need that kind of power, but it's numbers are impressive:
- 0-60 is about 3 seconds
- top speed of 190 or so
- 97mpg

Has a tiny turbo on a tiny rotary (.6L 2 rotor I think) that supply electricity to 4 electric motors (2 front 2 rear)

rotar_rump

very interesting as that would be an application where the rotary would shine well above a piston engine. Think about the rotary's use in small airplanes. It works well because it can hold an RPM for a long time without being detrimental to the engine...long compared to a piston that is. So, you mate a FI rotary engine to a generator and connect it to a set of in-wheel electric motors. The engine management could just keep the motor spinning at it's most fuel-efficiant RPM the whole time. Throw in some decent sized capacitors and maybe a couple of batteries for energy storage (SHORT trips, think preventing flooding) and you would have a lot of potential here.

Red Rex

iTrader: (1)

Telsa came up with their sports car running on electricity. Performance stats look good. Price does not. There's nothing an electric motor can do that a gasoline engine can't do for cheaper (for now). Want a fuel efficient car? There are gasoline engines that match most of the hybrid cars and cost a fraction of the price. Yeah hybrids can beat gas engines when it comes to the ridiculous (100 mpg) but the price is usually outrageous. Why buy a Telsa when you can buy a Corvette that gets 30 mpg and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

There's potential in hybrid technology but as of now, garbage.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

The rotary works lousy in small airplanes (talking > 50 hp); very few have been installed and by the time one deals with gearboxes, exhaust systems, cooling and high fuel consumption, one is better off using a pistion engine to start with. The steady RPM thing is total nonsense - my aircraft engines all run great at 2400 rpm forever, and if you want to eat the fuel consumption will run great at 2700 and max power all day long as well. Add in the tens of millions of piston engines running at constant rpm used in generator-sets, ag equipment, boats, water pumping equipment and so on, your statement is not just wrong, it's wrong by 7 or 8 orders of magnitude.

A rotary to power a generator is not out of the question, the principle advantage being its compact size, but not for the reasons you give.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The only reason I care about mileage is if the 99.9% of commuter cars and 100% of commercial vehicles can cut their consumption by ~50 to 70% (which series hybrid could easily do), then it means the enthusiasts have that much more fuel to have fun with, without the whole world-wide consumption mess.


As they said in Top Gear, just as the car saved the horse, moving it to enthusiast and pleasure activities, super fuel efficient vehicles (far above what we have now) will save the sports car.

The bigger issue is actually getting the cars swapped. As 100+mpg cars continue to show up and get cheaper, more people will buy them, meaning prices should theoretically slide downwards, meaning more people won't mind paying the gas prices, and not get the more fuel efficient cars..etc...

The biggest industry available to be impacted is the trucking industry. What do you think would happen if all commercial vehicles suddenly cut their consumption in half? Or more than half? While they may not use more fuel collectively than cars collectively, businesses can inherently handle the cost of vehicle replacement easier than a consumer, and have more to benefit from reduced fuel costs.

PSTNLSS

iTrader: (3)

For all those who really want a supercar... Mazda will no longer produce the rotary in turbo production with much issue over the RX-7

rotar_rump

And thus the reason for my name on here. I sometimes speak with what I think I know but, I didn't know what I don't know. So now, I sit on my rump and learn some more.

kvndoom

I guess you and I have different definitions of what an arm and leg would cost.

b'Eight'

The big advancement in car efficiency will come once you can get rid of the transmission.

delhi

I can finally take up cycling.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

I completely agree with this logic. It's a crying shame to see perfectly good gasoline get burned up on gridlocked commutes and errand running, when 90% of those folks could care less what powers their cars, as long as it's reasonably affordable, plentiful, and safe. Do I think people should have the choice? Absolutely. But right now the right choices are not out there.

And yes, I believe series hybrids are the right way to go. That, and how about having the automotive industry adopt modern materials (like carbon fiber) to cut major weight out of cars? I've been told that several major manufacturers are on the verge of mass-produced carbon fiber bodies and other such. I hope it happens.

ASH8

Huh..this is America..Funny how times have changed, only a decade or more ago Americans did not give a rats *** about "fuel consumption or economy", building the largest, heaviest and most ugly cars the world have EVER seen.

The amount of 'bitching' that goes on in a car comparison/review over 2 or 3 MPG...it is a Laugh..

So is it EAT more, and USE LESS gas the equation?..

What about EATING Less, so makers will actually MAKE smaller and lighter cars that Americans will FIT IN...and the rest of the world will be happy.

No offense GUYS OK...This applies to Aussies also, we are no better...Gluttony is killing the look of our cars...and the people.

Some examples with Mazda...Reviewers bitching that the MX-5 Miata is too small and uncomfortable to sit in..(Look at the arms and hands of the reviewer).
New Mazda 2...will be the same.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

America only cares what the latest fad is to make money. Right now it's lets use less energy!
Its a bunch of bullshit.
OD