MotorTrend best handling car comparo - RX8 included
08-28-2008, 12:08 AM
#51
Grand Chancellor
08-28-2008, 02:13 AM
#52
Super Moderator
One day the younger guys will realize that HP is not everything, just another way to kill yourself.
So many miss the point about Mazda's products...like the MX-5 (to be recalled in 2010 as the Miata again..BTW... only in US Market) where it is not about "power",
it is about being "connected to the car...as one with the car" and it is not advertising Bullshit...it is actually true....just like the journo in motor trend.."like your arms are connected as wings to the car"
I think the RX-8 and MX-5 are like riding a 250cc two stroke bike, the thrills and smiles it puts on your face every time you drive/ride it, but you have the safety of 4 wheels..
08-28-2008, 02:48 AM
#53
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I'm not gonna mince words... I'd definitely welcome more power if the option was available, but not at the cost of upsetting the balance of what is already a solid and fun to drive car. This article really just confirmed what I felt when I was car shopping; between the 350z, g35, and rx8, I really felt like the 8 just 'fit,' like a pair of wings as the article put it.
08-28-2008, 09:06 AM
#54
Row faster, I hear banjos
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I'm not gonna mince words... I'd definitely welcome more power if the option was available, but not at the cost of upsetting the balance of what is already a solid and fun to drive car. This article really just confirmed what I felt when I was car shopping; between the 350z, g35, and rx8, I really felt like the 8 just 'fit,' like a pair of wings as the article put it.
This car deserves that engine.
This was the full quote from part 2 of the Motortrend article:
Already those of you who live and die by the numbers are aghast. Second-slowest lap time? Next to last in lateral grip and the figure eight? Yet a third-place ranking by Pobst? Above my beloved GT-R? Listen to Pobst: "In the purest sense of a sports car, the rear-drive RX-8 is the most satisfying through corners. I felt like it was a glove on my hand. I could put it right where I wanted. Extremely well balanced, easy to drift, unfettered by weight. The all-wheel-drive cars tend to understeer, and then when they do break loose it's a big event and a lot happens. In the RX-8, on the other hand, things happen a little bit at a time. It's just so much fun to drive." Pobst's words only reinforce our own: Big handling numbers are instructive and meaningful, but they often tell you nothing about the actual experience of driving a car, how it "feels." Though underpowered and under-tired compared with other entries here, the RX-8 has grace and fluidity and balance like few other sports cars on the market today. "The more powerful cars feel like riding a horse," Pobst says. "The RX-8 feels like wings bolted right to your arms."
08-28-2008, 09:16 AM
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I simply think the test(really in all car mags) is flawed due to tire choices.
I know they test the cars "as equipped" from the manufacturer, but when running performance tests comparing cars this should be one of the controls, not variables.
I know they test the cars "as equipped" from the manufacturer, but when running performance tests comparing cars this should be one of the controls, not variables.
08-28-2008, 11:11 AM
#56
Grand Chancellor
^ I agree. But tires are part of the product package from the car maker. If the company puts in crappy tires, then they should be penalised. Otherwise where does it stop? Ever car should be equipped with Brembo brakes? Bilsten suspension? etc etc...
08-28-2008, 11:36 AM
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I believe their "performance" articles should have all cars equpped with comparable tires. Only thing I ask.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
#58
Momentum Keeps Me Going
I believe their "performance" articles should have all cars equpped with comparable tires. Only thing I ask.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
Realisticly, most mags wouldn't pony up the cash/effort to do that, and anyway, everyone and his brother would complain they choose the wrong tire for "their" favorite car and on and on.
The difference tires make to a cars "feel' is immense, so perhaps, in reality, the obstensibly "crappy" OEM tires the RX-8 had on are actually pretty damn good for their intended purpose.
I say just put some r-comps on 'um all and have at it. Definitely more fun no matter what they start with, esp. if they give a race driver the ultimate choice of deciding what's best.
08-28-2008, 12:11 PM
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I believe their "performance" articles should have all cars equpped with comparable tires. Only thing I ask.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
08-28-2008, 12:34 PM
#60
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Regarding tires, I happen to think that Mazda did well on the stock tire choice.
If you read Pobst's review of cars with higher grip, like the GT-R or Evo, the traction threshold tipover was violent and unpleasant, whereas the RX-8 was far more gradual and communicative. If the RX-8 wore, let's say, R-compounds, that gradual tipover would have been more abrupt and less pleasant.
If you read Pobst's review of cars with higher grip, like the GT-R or Evo, the traction threshold tipover was violent and unpleasant, whereas the RX-8 was far more gradual and communicative. If the RX-8 wore, let's say, R-compounds, that gradual tipover would have been more abrupt and less pleasant.
08-28-2008, 01:02 PM
#61
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I believe their "performance" articles should have all cars equpped with comparable tires. Only thing I ask.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
Car manufacturers design cars for the masses. Since ultra high performance summer tires generally have a worse ride than tires, they have to make sacrifices to create a suitable ride for the average joe. The main articles should include OEM equipped tires for sure.
Anyone whos been to any competitive race event knows how important rubber is.
I don't it view it as being part of the "control" for the test, it's one of the many variables of performance, right alongside ECU mapping, suspension settings, exhaust design, etc.
Last edited by Catspaw; 08-28-2008 at 01:04 PM.
08-28-2008, 09:22 PM
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compared to some of the competition the RX8 was up against...more than justifies my pride of ownership in my own RX8. a great handling fun to drive distinctive auto. now if the kids in the hot Mustangs would only stop gunning their engines everytime one pulls alongside me, i know you have a lot of horsepower..... but i own an RX8 and you don't!
08-28-2008, 10:38 PM
#63
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compared to some of the competition the RX8 was up against...more than justifies my pride of ownership in my own RX8. a great handling fun to drive distinctive auto. now if the kids in the hot Mustangs would only stop gunning their engines everytime one pulls alongside me, i know you have a lot of horsepower..... but i own an RX8 and you don't!
08-28-2008, 10:41 PM
#64
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put it this way.a hell of a lot of time was put into this and you need to understand a lot of cars did not make the cut.that said i'm proud to be a owner of a rx8 that we all know stands in a class of it's own.they all have not truly measured nor can touch.the class we are in. i really think at night they dream of the sweet four door that makes them turn around more than they want to!
08-28-2008, 10:42 PM
#65
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As kind of eluded to by some of the others the thing you need to remember is that the RX-8, basically a 5yr old car has made the list of 10 of the best handling cars in the world to be tested. The fact that it has only faired middle of the road against cars worth 4 times as much in the numbers categories should make you estatic!!! Not disappointed. I think some of you are missing the point. That and as Pobst proved, numbers aren't everything. Everyone is always focused on the numbers. I'm an engineer and you'd think I'd be a big numbers guy, but maybe being an engineener I know better. Numbers only tell 1/2 the story. To those of you requesting more power, that would be no different than changing anything else about the car, it would no longer be an RX-8 and it would affect the silky smoothness and oneness you feel with your RX-8. Don't try to change a good thing, go get a more powerful/torque car to get your kicks and leave the 8 for those who appreciate it for what it really is, a wonderfully well rounded machine that doesn't break the bank.
Last edited by Nick R; 08-28-2008 at 11:05 PM.
08-28-2008, 11:11 PM
#66
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This test does say alot about the car. A) the 350Z and S2000 suck for handling compared to every car in this test. B) the reason this car didnt perform with the numbers I think show alot of lack of power. Power is what pushes those faster times, and in the corners you can't garantee the 8 would even be in its max power range. Thats the nature of handling. But you shouldnt need an article to tell you if your purchase was a good one.
08-28-2008, 11:31 PM
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A) the 350Z and S2000 suck for handling compared to every car in this test.
There is a reason why the S2000 is a favorite in AS.
08-28-2008, 11:34 PM
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I'm not really sure you can make that conclusion. The reason for the cuts are a bit more than simply being "not good enough." For example, the Elise was cut because it was tested in a previous year.
08-28-2008, 11:36 PM
#69
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Don't forget to watch the MT video of the 8 and Pobst's review after driving it. Very much a fan of the car. Great to see the RX-8 do so well even though it was with a flock of newer, more powerful and nearly all more expensive vehicles.
http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtes...deo/index.html
http://www.motortrend.com/av/roadtes...deo/index.html
08-29-2008, 02:47 AM
#70
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i can, and did... lol
i say this with all do respect to all cars mentioned, the VQ35 is one of my favorite motors of all time (the one in the nissan if you didnt know). but I have run the twisties with both cars stock for stock and beaten them. the S2000 is better than the Z for a cornering car for sure, but the 8 still was faster through the turns. and the Z would come in last place with this competition. the S2000 faces the same problem as the 8, with more weight and slightly poorer suspension. Mazda really did design probably the best chassis they could for the car, just forgot as Honda did with the S2000, to have the power equal the rest of the car.
08-29-2008, 07:15 AM
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you wish, theres a reason why the s2000 is in A stock and rx8 and Z are in B stock in autox :p the rx8 is a great handling car, and its great it hasnt been forgotten over the years.
Last edited by playdoh43; 08-29-2008 at 07:32 AM.
08-29-2008, 10:09 AM
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and part three…
"There is perhaps no better proof of our "the numbers don't tell the whole story" mantra than the Mazda RX-8 (4th place). This isn't a fast car, as its lap time proves. It doesn't shine in the lane change or in ride quality. Steep-steer reaction time is third-best. Yet the Mazda is the very definition of "elegant." Pobst ranked it third on his finishing list. We practically had to yank a few of our exuberant test drivers out of the car, lest they drift the rear tires into smoky oblivion. The steering is alive in your hands, communicative and light. The RX-8 goes where you point it-no second-guesses, no hiccups. Out on public roads, it slips through turns like Herms silk pulled through a scarf ring. It doesn't beat you up, take unexpected slide trips, or force you to work hard. This is handling hard-wired to your synapses. That three cars finished higher than the RX-8 only shows just how good they are."
"There is perhaps no better proof of our "the numbers don't tell the whole story" mantra than the Mazda RX-8 (4th place). This isn't a fast car, as its lap time proves. It doesn't shine in the lane change or in ride quality. Steep-steer reaction time is third-best. Yet the Mazda is the very definition of "elegant." Pobst ranked it third on his finishing list. We practically had to yank a few of our exuberant test drivers out of the car, lest they drift the rear tires into smoky oblivion. The steering is alive in your hands, communicative and light. The RX-8 goes where you point it-no second-guesses, no hiccups. Out on public roads, it slips through turns like Herms silk pulled through a scarf ring. It doesn't beat you up, take unexpected slide trips, or force you to work hard. This is handling hard-wired to your synapses. That three cars finished higher than the RX-8 only shows just how good they are."
08-29-2008, 08:04 PM
#73
Absolutely awesome concluding summary. Couldn't have said it any better. It really seems like they got to the heart of the 8 and fully understood it. The three cars that placed higher are top quality ones and deserve their rankings. And there's no shame in losing out to cars that cost 2-4 times more.
