Motortrend article: Mazda's RX-7 Dilemma
 

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...mma/index.html

Mazda's on the fence regarding the next gen RX-7 and 16X.

Mazda make the tweaked Miata one!!

If they really do make a 220 lb lighter 2-door coupe with a 1600cc rotary engine and turbo I will not only buy one, I might even break my normal rule about buying first model years and buy one as soon as it hits showroom floors. Then I will send a thank you letter to Mazda. That is the car I want.

the reason i bought an rx8 and not an s2000, z3, or 350z was the rear seats.

my second choice was a blue z3 m coupe. i kind of wish i had bought it. -_- but maintenance would have been nightmarish. still, they only weigh a bit more than the rx8 and come with 333hp....

Looks like the Rx8 will be enjoying a couple more years before the next gen rotary. Maybe it will be the last rotary! It will become a rare classic. :Peace:

they should just build a 3-rotor RX7 n shut em all up.

Ever heard of fuel economy averages for car manufacturers? :lol:

Mazda buyers aren't Lambo Murcielago buyers, so no one will be looking to pay an $8k gas guzzler tax.



.....But, would I throw away all my money at a triple rotor factory-warranted car?


Does the Pope wear red shoes?! :bigok:

260-280 hp in a true coupe that is lighter than the rx-8 = win. keep it light and simple and i'll sign up.

this is the only viable layout of a Rotary nowadays IMHO, just cutaway the H2 stuff.

you can't meet the current figures of CO2 emission without "help"

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5...73be0aa51b.jpg[/QUOTE]


photo shoot from Mazda Museum in Hiroshima .

by the time this car actually comes out ill be making decent money so as long as its going to make those kind of numbers sign me up!

No, dude a 4 rotor production Furai!!!!!!!

i think the sure-fire way for this to succeed (commercially) would be to follow suit of the ft-86, a cheap, small, lightweight, and dynamically excellent rwd coupe. cheap (affordable) being the key. just develop the kabura into a production car

Well, since we're now possibly looking at 2013 at the earliest and I probably won't buy a first year car again, looks like that cements the 370z as my next car.

The info in this article seems a little more concrete than we're used to seeing/reading. But that rendering is horrible. Looks like a PS'd Crossfire

That gas guzzler tax just a Cali thing?

If Mazda lowers emissions on everything else in the brand hopefully the rotary wont bring up the average too much.

Honestly, they should just use the damn FD body and throw the upgraded 16X in it. That body is classic enough to use again, or at least as a starting point. I'd still like to see an 8 version as well, complete with 4 seating and all. Roughly based on the current 8.

Time will tell.

I think this is exactly what mazda is waiting for. To see how the market accepts the Toyobaru, and if there is enough market share for them in it.

Looking at Toyota will be nothing more than a momentary amusement. Regardless of anything, screw everybody else the new rotary is coming. It is just a matter of how many years it will take to reach their goals. Markets continually boom and bust, you can count on the next boom as surely as you can count on the human nature of greed.

While I am only driving 4000 miles per year, Mazda has all the time in the world to get it ready.

This is so funny, as lambasted as the rotary is, it is the engine that is keeping me over the long haul. I finally watched the Evora on Top Gear, with its Camry engine and flimsy lifted gearbox. No can do.

All these "rx8 drivers" with their knees buckling at any "news" should be just ashamed. It's just a car. Some people can wait for the new rotary, some can't, but really either way it doesn't matter.

IMO, Mazda seems to be a little too worried about if there would be a market for another rotary car. I think there would be. I think part of the problem still stems from what people were expecting when the RX-8 came out. They were expecting a car like the last RX-7 or better at an affordable price. While the 8 is affordable, it is a different animal than the 7.

In all honesty, since the 8 came out, I think the MPG issue has been more of a sales killer than the relatively meager power numbers. If this car could get upper 20s to 30 hwy with curernt performance numbers it would have sold a LOT better.

I guess the only thing left for Mazda to learn from the 8 is if the gen II engine holds up better with the extra oil injector but it's pretty much a given the 16x will also have the extra one anyway.

Amen. Why a Kabura based rotary car doesn't already have a green light is beyond me. :banghead:

Paul.

So if we do really have some more time before the 16X hits the market let's either save up more or buy a '09 or newer now. It is tempting at prices I see but mine is coming up on 40K and running better then ever so I'm leaning toward saving.

I'll be out of college by 2012. Perfect timing for them to get the new RX ready.

Now that would be something :yumyum:

Given the current political climate, it seems like greater displacement is no longer the answer. They need to ditch the 16X and update the 1.3 liter Renesis. Use the aluminum side housings and use the revised geometry to reduce quenching and all the other problems that lead to high emissions and poor fuel economy. Then install a single turbo that can make the power output of the series 8 Rx-7, about 280 bhp.

Basically make a cheaper, more emissions/fuel economy friendly version of the last Rx-7. The series 8 cars did a solid mid 13's in the quarter mile.

Some people say that Mazda should make the 7 like this, or like that. One thing I have appreciated about Mazda's rotaries was the fact that they seemed to be designed in a vacuum. What does the RX-8 directly compete with? The engine is like the S2000, but it is a hard top, with rear seats. It doesn't have the brute power of the Nissans. It has awesome back seat access.

So I would say to Mazda....don't design a car to compete with Toyota...especially considering how lackluster Toyota's cars have been in the soul department. The last "fun" cars with the MR2s, and while they may have had good numbers, they didn't turn in or feel like Mazdas do. I'm not really looking for more power than the current models...but improved range would be great (300+ miles without trying). I would have bought a Miata had I not bought the 8, so additional seats aren't a huge deal, but I have used them in several cases already. I wonder what the target redline they are working toward would be? 10k would be awesome, just because it's a five digit number... I used to think that dual clutch automagics were the most awesome things in the world, but after having owned them...I love shifting my own gears.

That's right, make it a driver's car whatever is done. Make it rewarding to drive at normal speeds as well as at the track. Crisp turn in, responsive throttle that can steer the car in the corner, and reward the driver with those really nice heel toe shifts (I may have to make the concession for automatic rev holds for downshifts). A nice rifle-bolt transmission (throw redline in it from the get go). Keep the sound of the 8 -- that giant sewing machine whirr. LSD should be standard...maybe even an option for an e-diff? Speaking of such, make Mazdaspeed parts orderable options (especially the blue level stuff).

Features. It seems that cars with features sell. How many Miata Club Sports sold a year? How many Miata Sports w/o convenience sell? Many options add insignificant weight to the car and add much to the joy. Auto climate control and auto wipers may seem frivolous, but on a track day with intermittent, varying intensity rain and spots of sunshine, it's nice to "set it and forget it". The big thing to me is tiered options being a pain. I know they save manufacturing costs...but I don't want leather seats and I don't want to have to choose between having them and having my automatic climate control/wipers...

Looks: the FD looked amazing. Something along those lines. The dip in the roof, hood, and trunk...keep that. Forget the pedestrians.

I don't think Mazda listens to anyone other than their passionate employees and owners. They acknowledge the rest of the world complains, praises, comments, criticizes, and compares, and do their own thing anyway. If they improved the economy slightly (20-25 range), and didn't have the reliability issues at the beginning, there would have been very very very few critics.

Keeping the price down is a critical direction Mazda has to take, so as fun as thinking about factory 3 and 4 rotor cars is, I can't see it happening any time soon because the population of buyers for it is so tiny. I am glad they don't cater to the mass market appeal of boring isolation from everything around you, but they still need volume to support it.

As an example, the Mazda2 is a perfect solution for their entry into that segment, since the achieve the econobox criteria without losing the fun and style. I find myself really attracted to it, and it will almost certainly be my wife's next car. The RX-8 did a wonderful job of appealing to a wider market than the RX-7 did, and Mazda has a real opportunity of improving on that even further.

They need to keep the price where it is or slightly lower, not skimp on cooling and lubrication, and beef up the ignition to really last 60-100k (to preserve the EPA ratings more than 20k), and they won't need to change the engine, only the style to break from the existing perceptions and biased opinions.

People call it underpowered, but it really isn't. If 232 (or whatever crank hp you want to call it) is really underpowered, why are 80%+ of the cars you drive around every day lower power? Especially if they apply their weight loss program to the 8, it won't need more power to sell to the market. Dropping a few hundred pounds increases the 0-60 and 1/4 times that everyone cares so much about, without touching the engine. The Miata outsells the 8 by far, and it's half the power.

Power costs money, how fast can you afford to go? How fast can Mazda afford to make it?

Make it hella fast off the production line and it's sales will be dismally low (although magazine reviews and couch drivers will praise it to the sky), because only a sliver of people would be able to afford it (further requiring a price increase to avoid losing money on the model). Probably the same ratio of current owners that can afford to go FI. The few people that will want more power out of it will still crank it up, but instead of only that tiny percentage purchasing the car in the first place, they get alot of people buying it who find the power level entirely adequate as well.

They need sales, not records.



And personally, +1 to the 2,200lb rotary powered chassis. Doesn't need power to be awesome.

it will only happen if the s2 rx8 is a mechanical success.
OD

Drop the S2 Renny in a Miata right now and I'll personally get mazda 5 ppl to buy it. If everyone here did the same, they'd be golden.

Oh. The Miata needs to lose weight too, Just a bit.