"Mazda expects to recall RX-8s"
Mmmmm... Rotary Donut
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 4
From: Lake in the Hills, IL (NW Chicago Burbs)
Originally Posted by Nubo
Trying to make sense of that. Might this all boil down to the 5w20 oil spec? I know OZ uses heavier. Was 5w20 spec'd for Candada?
Damn! I was using 5w30 too, until the BITOG site convinced me that 5w20 might actually be better.
Damn! I was using 5w30 too, until the BITOG site convinced me that 5w20 might actually be better.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,625
Likes: 5
From: USA
The problem that I see is that if the car's engine is prone to damage based on location, if you have your car in Boston and it's okay (recall is done and no engne replacement is needed) - but 4 years from now move to AZ and your engine goes due to the design flaw....
Given how some of those who've had this issue have gotten 2, 3 and even 4 engine replacements done, I would say it's a given that should mazda be doing a wide scale engine test/swap, that they would have made any required tweaks to the engine to make sure this is the last time they need to dive into this issue. It will leave too much egg on their face to do a full scale recall only to have to do it again because they failed to do it properly the first time around.
Back to my point - upgrading engines who CURRENTLY have issues doesn't mean that the rest of us will not be prone to it down the road.. which is my only concern on this topic.
Given how some of those who've had this issue have gotten 2, 3 and even 4 engine replacements done, I would say it's a given that should mazda be doing a wide scale engine test/swap, that they would have made any required tweaks to the engine to make sure this is the last time they need to dive into this issue. It will leave too much egg on their face to do a full scale recall only to have to do it again because they failed to do it properly the first time around.
Back to my point - upgrading engines who CURRENTLY have issues doesn't mean that the rest of us will not be prone to it down the road.. which is my only concern on this topic.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,625
Likes: 5
From: USA
Originally Posted by JeRKy 8 Owner
If that video had never been leaked, do you think there would have even been a recall?
He's as bad as Can
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,309
Likes: 3
From: Manchester, NJ
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
4) These new or remanufactured motors will somehow have a design and/or manufacturing change that will prevent such failures in the future (???);
If not, do you blame me for being highly skeptical of number 4 above?
If you don't blame me, do you agree that number 5 is woefully inadequate?
If not, do you blame me for being highly skeptical of number 4 above?
If you don't blame me, do you agree that number 5 is woefully inadequate?
As for #5 I have over 72,000 miles so it doesn't help me out.
Stuck in a love triangle
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,201
Likes: 3
From: Miami, FL
For engines that will be failing compression tests, do you believe they are going to be RX-8s containing high carbon deposits that have been predominantly driven "too softly" (rarely, if ever taken into high RPM) by their owners for majority of the engine's life ?
And does this mean that those of us who usually keep the RPMs at or below 3750 to maximize fuel efficiency have been building up more carbon in our engines than those who haven't been giving a **** about the poor gas mileage?
Drive it like you stole it?
And does this mean that those of us who usually keep the RPMs at or below 3750 to maximize fuel efficiency have been building up more carbon in our engines than those who haven't been giving a **** about the poor gas mileage?
Drive it like you stole it?
Last edited by JeRKy 8 Owner; Aug 26, 2006 at 05:47 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 10,880
Likes: 340
From: Australia
A year ago I was against the use of synthetics oils, and effects on Rotor oil seals and internals and carbon build up......blah blah blah
Then as now, I would not touch fully sythn with a 10 foot pole in a ROTARY...
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rotarygods-rotary-oil-tech-blog-69805/
Then as now, I would not touch fully sythn with a 10 foot pole in a ROTARY...
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rotarygods-rotary-oil-tech-blog-69805/
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by ASH8
A year ago I was against the use of synthetics oils, and effects on Rotor oil seals and internals and carbon build up......blah blah blah
Then as now, I would not touch fully sythn with a 10 foot pole in a ROTARY...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=69805
Then as now, I would not touch fully sythn with a 10 foot pole in a ROTARY...
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=69805
Mazda in Australia didnt have the mineral oil available , it became available only 7 months after the car was released .
Do you know if the recall is being conducted in Australia , or are they going to sweep it under the blanket as the sales here are only a drop in the ocean at 4300 units over 3 years .
Michael
Registered
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,319
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From: NYC
Originally Posted by RotoRocket
So let me get this straight, and ANYONE, please feel free to respond:
1) The Renesis has a known design and/or manufacturing problem that causes compression failure;
2) Mazda is going to run some tests to see if motors are prone to this type of compression failure;
3) Mazda is going to replace such motors with new or remanufactured ones;
4) These new or remanufactured motors will somehow have a design and/or manufacturing change that will prevent such failures in the future (???);
5) Mazda is tacking on an additional one year/10,000 mile warranty on the powertrain as some sort of assurance to its "highly valued" customers.
Did I miss anything? If not, do you blame me for being highly skeptical of number 4 above?
If you don't blame me, do you agree that number 5 is woefully inadequate?
1) The Renesis has a known design and/or manufacturing problem that causes compression failure;
2) Mazda is going to run some tests to see if motors are prone to this type of compression failure;
3) Mazda is going to replace such motors with new or remanufactured ones;
4) These new or remanufactured motors will somehow have a design and/or manufacturing change that will prevent such failures in the future (???);
5) Mazda is tacking on an additional one year/10,000 mile warranty on the powertrain as some sort of assurance to its "highly valued" customers.
Did I miss anything? If not, do you blame me for being highly skeptical of number 4 above?
If you don't blame me, do you agree that number 5 is woefully inadequate?
No, it's my understanding that the Renesis DOES NOT have a design/manufacturing problem. But earlier ECU programming can result in engine problems in a few particular situations and climates. If the ECU is programmed with the new flash, the engine should be fine in all situations and climates.
2) Mazda is going to run some tests to see if motors are prone to this type of compression failure.
The Renesis is not "prone" to compression failure. Mazda dealers will be performing a vaccum test to see if the engine has suffered any damage as a result of earlier, not-quite-perfected ECU programming.
3) Mazda is going to replace such motors with new or remanufactured ones.
Yes. Though it's my understanding that remanufactured engines are the equivalent of new. (The way you phrase it, it sounds like remanufactured engines are somehow less desirable—like comparing a "used" car to a "new" one. I don't believe that's, in fact, true.)
4) These new or remanufactured motors will somehow have a design and/or manufacturing change that will prevent such failures in the future (???).
No! I don't believe the Renesis engine, itself, has "changed" since it was introduced. The only changes have been the various ECU flashes. Again, the problem IS NOT the engine—rather, it's figuring out the right ECU programming for all situations/climates. Prior ECU flashes have resulted in engine damage in a small number of situations/climates.
5) Mazda is tacking on an additional one year/10,000 mile warranty on the powertrain as some sort of assurance to its "highly valued" customers.
It's an extension of the warranty to assuage fears of RX-8 owners who, due to news of engine failures and this recall, may suspect the longterm reliability of their engines. Yes, most car owners consider a warranty extension "some sort of assurance," as you put it. (In fact, all warrantees are "some sort of assurance." There's really no mystery or vagueness about it. It's not "some sort" of assurance—it's assurance, plain and simple.)
Do you blame me for being highly skeptical of number 4 above?
Yes. If the problem is the ECU programming and not the engine—as I believe it is—then you have no reason for being "highly" skeptical, or even a little bit skeptical, for that matter. Mazda is a car company with a strong reputation for innovative engineering and a history of taking care of its customers. Mazda also has a good track record of correcting problems with their vehicles.
If you don't blame me, do you agree that number 5 is woefully inadequate?
Not at all. I think extending the warranty is a nice gesture that, to be honest, isn't really necessary. When 1999-2001 Miata engines were failing, many were replaced even when the cars were out of warranty.
Lubricious
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,425
Likes: 4
From: SF Bay Area, California
A note on Re-Man engines,
This site is talking about RX-7 but raises some question in my mind as to whether remanufacture is truly as good as new. I guess it all depends on how much of the engine is replaced
more at http://www.rxforyour7.com/Rotary%20Engine.htm
This site is talking about RX-7 but raises some question in my mind as to whether remanufacture is truly as good as new. I guess it all depends on how much of the engine is replaced
ou are a rotary engine enthusiast because of its unique performance qualities and reliability. Similarly, these engines have very specific rebuild characteristics. If core parts have been cleaned and are within Mazda specifications, they are re-usable. It is relatively easy and inexpensive to build a motor that will last for about one year, but don't expect much more than one year. At Rotary Response and Racing (RRR) the criteria for replacement of used parts allow for less wear than Mazda's specifications. This will guarantee long-term reliability. Success in rebuilding a rotary engine with long term performance and reliability depends on knowing limitations on used core parts.
Many changes have been made to the rotary engine since the introduction of the R100 in 1968. There were the original twin distributor 12A motors in the early 1970's. In 1974 the single distributor and 13B motors were introduced. These 13Bs have not been imported to the U.S.A. since 1978. In 1979 the Rx7 was first imported. Before 1979 the side housings (front, center, and rear) could be lapped smooth for all rebuilt engines. They could also be Blanchard ground and lapped a couple of times and still work fine. In 1979 nitride coated steel housings were introduced. This decreased the wear on the side housings from the Side seals, Corner seals, Apex seals and Oil Control Rings. The steel housings before this could be past replacement criteria at only 40,000 miles. Nitriding increased usable life up to 200,000 miles. At this point housings can be lapped or machined but they will only be good for only another 30,000 to 50,000* miles because machining will remove the nitride coating.
A point needs to be made about lapping and Blanchard grinding as it relates to long-term reliability. The nitrite coating is very thin and once you have gone past the nitrite you are back to pre-1979 housing surfaces. Lapping isn't as aggressive as the Blanchard process. Also, if too much material is taken off the four side surfaces of the housings, a different adjusting spacer needs to be fabricated to be able to set the end play.
Many changes have been made to the rotary engine since the introduction of the R100 in 1968. There were the original twin distributor 12A motors in the early 1970's. In 1974 the single distributor and 13B motors were introduced. These 13Bs have not been imported to the U.S.A. since 1978. In 1979 the Rx7 was first imported. Before 1979 the side housings (front, center, and rear) could be lapped smooth for all rebuilt engines. They could also be Blanchard ground and lapped a couple of times and still work fine. In 1979 nitride coated steel housings were introduced. This decreased the wear on the side housings from the Side seals, Corner seals, Apex seals and Oil Control Rings. The steel housings before this could be past replacement criteria at only 40,000 miles. Nitriding increased usable life up to 200,000 miles. At this point housings can be lapped or machined but they will only be good for only another 30,000 to 50,000* miles because machining will remove the nitride coating.
A point needs to be made about lapping and Blanchard grinding as it relates to long-term reliability. The nitrite coating is very thin and once you have gone past the nitrite you are back to pre-1979 housing surfaces. Lapping isn't as aggressive as the Blanchard process. Also, if too much material is taken off the four side surfaces of the housings, a different adjusting spacer needs to be fabricated to be able to set the end play.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 137
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From: college station, tx/clinton, ar
I posted this on another thread, figured it would have a better chance of getting answered here. Does this recall pertain to vehicles in which the warranty has arun out and hav 75k+ miles?
Banned
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 371
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Originally Posted by overdrive
I posted this on another thread, figured it would have a better chance of getting answered here. Does this recall pertain to vehicles in which the warranty has arun out and hav 75k+ miles?
Originally Posted by Gomez
If there is a recall, you won't be on your own. You will be recalled. Free.
Recalls are independant of warranty status.
Recalls are independant of warranty status.
Dont know if this applies IN USA but it applies here in OZ., according to guru GOMEZ
Michael
ok to continue
1- I am VERY glad I have been running pre mix for a long time. So in theory I should have made up for the inadequete omp lubrication.
2- I am also very glad i have been running a 5w/30 to 10w/30 royal purple for a long time-- and dont throw this dont use synthetic crap at me. That doesnt make sense at all.
3- glad I have real gauges--imo every rotory should have real gauges for God's sake.
5- Now I am looking at the omp mod that uses a sepate pick up for the omp oil more seriously. Makes sense to me to have CLEAN oil injected into the combustion chamber not dirty oil. And that way you could use a real 2 cycle pre mix oil not a regular 4 stoke motor oil.
6- Either better oil coolers for the folks living in real hot climates that do a lot of stop and go or fans on the present ones.(for low speed operation only) matter of fact make that for all of us.
7- ONCE AGAIN LOOK AT THE ELECTRIC WATER PUMP--FREES UP HP AND IT CAN PRODUCE A MORE CONSTANT FLOW ESPECIALLY AT LOW SPEED. Since it operates independant from engine speed it can increase coolant flow and not have to increase the engine rpm(exposing the engine to all that flame front)
6- time to make the side vents functional for the engine bay? The paint will not like it but ????
Feedback?
olddragger
1- I am VERY glad I have been running pre mix for a long time. So in theory I should have made up for the inadequete omp lubrication.
2- I am also very glad i have been running a 5w/30 to 10w/30 royal purple for a long time-- and dont throw this dont use synthetic crap at me. That doesnt make sense at all.
3- glad I have real gauges--imo every rotory should have real gauges for God's sake.
5- Now I am looking at the omp mod that uses a sepate pick up for the omp oil more seriously. Makes sense to me to have CLEAN oil injected into the combustion chamber not dirty oil. And that way you could use a real 2 cycle pre mix oil not a regular 4 stoke motor oil.
6- Either better oil coolers for the folks living in real hot climates that do a lot of stop and go or fans on the present ones.(for low speed operation only) matter of fact make that for all of us.
7- ONCE AGAIN LOOK AT THE ELECTRIC WATER PUMP--FREES UP HP AND IT CAN PRODUCE A MORE CONSTANT FLOW ESPECIALLY AT LOW SPEED. Since it operates independant from engine speed it can increase coolant flow and not have to increase the engine rpm(exposing the engine to all that flame front)
6- time to make the side vents functional for the engine bay? The paint will not like it but ????
Feedback?
olddragger
who, me?
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Washington Twp., NJ
Originally Posted by Red Devil
I think you are missing the point. A remanufactured engine is not new, you said that yourself. It may have new seals, but the rotors (not that big a deal most of the time), housings, eccentric shaft, etc...are all re-used parts. RG's post went into this, but housings have varying tolerances. If I tore down and rebuilt my 33K engine, my housings still have 33K of wear. My rebuilt engine still has lesser life than a new engine with new housings. I don't want someone elses old housings, I either want brand new housings - which I'm guessing I'm not going to get. If I'm going to get an unknown engine, with housings in God knows what condition, I'll take my current engine that has been trouble free and not worry about all this.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 21
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Dilemma!
I was all set to buy a new RX8 last week. Got the loan approved, just needed to pick out the color. Doing a search on the Internet, I came across your great forum and learned about the flooding problems with the engine. I'm was planning on buying the car as an everyday car to go back and forth to work (only 1.5 miles from home). I spoke with 2 dealers about the flooding problem for short distances and they said they haven't had any problems reported to them.
So here's my dilemma. I absolutely love the car and there's no way I would want to buy anything else. Everyone is telling me that I'm crazy to even consider buying one. I guess I could lease it in order not to be responsible for it at the end of 2 years. But honestly, who at this point would want to buy a new RX8? I would think that the dealer would have to reduce the price in order to move these off the lot. I now know why they were willing to go $1,000 under invoice to sell me the car.
Is it possible that there aren't any problems in the SF Bay Area? Have you guys had problems when driving the car a short distance? At this point I'm really bummed out about all this!
So here's my dilemma. I absolutely love the car and there's no way I would want to buy anything else. Everyone is telling me that I'm crazy to even consider buying one. I guess I could lease it in order not to be responsible for it at the end of 2 years. But honestly, who at this point would want to buy a new RX8? I would think that the dealer would have to reduce the price in order to move these off the lot. I now know why they were willing to go $1,000 under invoice to sell me the car.
Is it possible that there aren't any problems in the SF Bay Area? Have you guys had problems when driving the car a short distance? At this point I'm really bummed out about all this!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,047
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
I havent read all of the posts in this thread, but I think the problem is only affects a small percentage of RX-8s, and keep in mind that not all RX-8s are MT, probably most of the affected ones are AT RX-8. I dont see any reason not to buy it if you love it so much, as long as you take good care of it, it'll run strong for a long time.
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grandma Webcam
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grandma Webcam
Last edited by Renesis_8; Sep 11, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
Its all about Style...
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,337
Likes: 0
From: South of Boston, MA
I havent chimed in awhile.. is the sky still falling Zoom? Otherside? Expo? Ibfubar?
Someone talk go me!!!.. I want my Mommy!!!!
And damn I think 3-4 pages logged today..
Zoom I want copies/links to those forms after ya pass them out to others.. hehe.
Wish I had a lil hidden camera thingy I could wear when this "Offically!!" happens and see my service reps face when I hand him the paperwork. hehe..
Someone talk go me!!!.. I want my Mommy!!!!
And damn I think 3-4 pages logged today..
Zoom I want copies/links to those forms after ya pass them out to others.. hehe.
Wish I had a lil hidden camera thingy I could wear when this "Offically!!" happens and see my service reps face when I hand him the paperwork. hehe..
Rotary only since 1980
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
From: Southeast of Seattle
I just turned over 30K miles and still have the original battery, starter and plugs. My engine runs strong and I never have experienced the power loss (I live in a cool climate) so I think I will pass the vacuum test.
Assuming I pass the vacuum test, will they still replace the plugs, starter and/or battery just to bring it to the lastest configuration? Do I have complain about slow starting (only a couple of times) or misfires (very rare) to have those parts swapped out? I plan on changing out the plugs anyways but if Mazda will do it for me under warranty, I'll let them.
I know I should wait for the letter and talk to the dealer but I was just curious if someone knows if ugrading the plugs, starter and battery will be a standard part of the recall service?
Assuming I pass the vacuum test, will they still replace the plugs, starter and/or battery just to bring it to the lastest configuration? Do I have complain about slow starting (only a couple of times) or misfires (very rare) to have those parts swapped out? I plan on changing out the plugs anyways but if Mazda will do it for me under warranty, I'll let them.
I know I should wait for the letter and talk to the dealer but I was just curious if someone knows if ugrading the plugs, starter and battery will be a standard part of the recall service?
Registered
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,319
Likes: 58
From: NYC
Originally Posted by Shaida
I was all set to buy a new RX8 last week. Got the loan approved, just needed to pick out the color. Doing a search on the Internet, I came across your great forum and learned about the flooding problems with the engine. I'm was planning on buying the car as an everyday car to go back and forth to work (only 1.5 miles from home). I spoke with 2 dealers about the flooding problem for short distances and they said they haven't had any problems reported to them.
So here's my dilemma. I absolutely love the car and there's no way I would want to buy anything else. Everyone is telling me that I'm crazy to even consider buying one. I guess I could lease it in order not to be responsible for it at the end of 2 years. But honestly, who at this point would want to buy a new RX8? I would think that the dealer would have to reduce the price in order to move these off the lot. I now know why they were willing to go $1,000 under invoice to sell me the car.
Is it possible that there aren't any problems in the SF Bay Area? Have you guys had problems when driving the car a short distance? At this point I'm really bummed out about all this!
So here's my dilemma. I absolutely love the car and there's no way I would want to buy anything else. Everyone is telling me that I'm crazy to even consider buying one. I guess I could lease it in order not to be responsible for it at the end of 2 years. But honestly, who at this point would want to buy a new RX8? I would think that the dealer would have to reduce the price in order to move these off the lot. I now know why they were willing to go $1,000 under invoice to sell me the car.
Is it possible that there aren't any problems in the SF Bay Area? Have you guys had problems when driving the car a short distance? At this point I'm really bummed out about all this!
Anyone who tells you you're crazy to consider buying one simply doesn't know what they're talking about.
Last edited by New Yorker; Aug 26, 2006 at 11:06 PM.