Mazda Detroit GP Announcement?
06-04-2012, 05:56 PM
#26
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I thought that I had read on here that Mazda wasn't planning on making a 2 door coupe version of the 6, but it would allow them to compete with the Altima and Accord 2 doors.
I would assume to allow them to save money, they probably wouldn't bother with it. Such a small market, the 2 door family car, not really worth it for a car company trying to get further away from the brink of failing.
Better off making a stand alone chassis replacement for the RX-8 than trying to make a 2 door version of the 6 profitable, in my opinion. Might be interesting to know what the size of that market for 2 door versions of the mid/full-size car market is. Just a wild guess on my part, with no facts behind it, I would say its about 25k to 50k cars a year, if even.
BC.
I would assume to allow them to save money, they probably wouldn't bother with it. Such a small market, the 2 door family car, not really worth it for a car company trying to get further away from the brink of failing.
Better off making a stand alone chassis replacement for the RX-8 than trying to make a 2 door version of the 6 profitable, in my opinion. Might be interesting to know what the size of that market for 2 door versions of the mid/full-size car market is. Just a wild guess on my part, with no facts behind it, I would say its about 25k to 50k cars a year, if even.
BC.
06-04-2012, 07:29 PM
#27
I don't "smell good".
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I'm just irritated that there is nothing to my liking to replace my 8 with. If I want to feel like I'm upgrading (while being affordable) I'm left with the Genesis Coupe and the Z (not into the American muscle). While I'd like to stick with Mazda, there's just nothing in the lineup that appeals to me anymore and a new 6 coupe would probably be the only chance at this point since the rotary seems like it will be dead or at least on a very long hiatus.
As far this thread, I'm on the fence about it. But really, I just want Mazda to win.
06-05-2012, 07:42 AM
#29
Momentum Keeps Me Going
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/sky...kyactiv-d.html some further info and background
06-05-2012, 07:53 AM
#31
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I'm just irritated that there is nothing to my liking to replace my 8 with. If I want to feel like I'm upgrading (while being affordable) I'm left with the Genesis Coupe and the Z (not into the American muscle). While I'd like to stick with Mazda, there's just nothing in the lineup that appeals to me anymore and a new 6 coupe would probably be the only chance at this point since the rotary seems like it will be dead or at least on a very long hiatus.
06-05-2012, 08:52 AM
#32
I'm just irritated that there is nothing to my liking to replace my 8 with. If I want to feel like I'm upgrading (while being affordable) I'm left with the Genesis Coupe and the Z (not into the American muscle). While I'd like to stick with Mazda, there's just nothing in the lineup that appeals to me anymore and a new 6 coupe would probably be the only chance at this point since the rotary seems like it will be dead or at least on a very long hiatus.
06-05-2012, 04:22 PM
#33
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Will Mazda continue support for Mazda RX-8 teams in 2013?
A14: Our support for RX-8 teams will not end after the conclusion of the 2012 Grand-Am season. We will add technical support for all SKYACTIV-D customers starting in 2013. Meanwhile, Mazda will also continue to pay contingency for teams racing RX-8's in 2013.
This may be a clue, but who knows if it will be used in the 8.
A14: Our support for RX-8 teams will not end after the conclusion of the 2012 Grand-Am season. We will add technical support for all SKYACTIV-D customers starting in 2013. Meanwhile, Mazda will also continue to pay contingency for teams racing RX-8's in 2013.
This may be a clue, but who knows if it will be used in the 8.
06-05-2012, 04:47 PM
#34
Super Moderator
Yes, as I see it all new Mazda 6.
I just cannot see Mazda (JP) backing all this and throwing the SA Diesel in a car you can not buy.
It could even be a racing CX-5.???
After all it will be the first SA Diesel Mazda in the North America, (well should be) everywhere else has it.
I just cannot see Mazda (JP) backing all this and throwing the SA Diesel in a car you can not buy.
It could even be a racing CX-5.???
After all it will be the first SA Diesel Mazda in the North America, (well should be) everywhere else has it.
06-05-2012, 09:47 PM
#36
Rockie Mountain Newbie
06-07-2012, 04:11 PM
#38
Momentum Keeps Me Going
As their problem is part technology and part money, perhaps a bit of crowd funding would help with the money side. Everyone contributing could get a leveraged discount on their next rotary purchase, if and when they ever succeed in getting one to market. Works for others, and what have they got to loose? Might be great marketing as well...
08-14-2012, 08:11 AM
#40
Rockie Mountain Newbie
Somehow, I doubt anyone outside of the company can just call them up, and say "Here's 15 million dollars. Please ear-mark it for your next rotary project, and get it released in the next 36 months".
BC.
08-14-2012, 07:38 PM
#41
Super Moderator
Ah..It takes 100's of $millions to make any all new car, let alone engine/drive train developments.
And I still say the Rotary is dead as we know it (as main/only power source).
Mazda has to find at least a 40% MPG and 30% Emission improvement over RENESIS to even qualify for production/investment for a 10 year car generation life cycle.
Just remember "how" the RENESIS came to be, the Engine was 'a' part time unfunded research development by Mazda Japan techs at the factory in their spare time.
Without MSP exhaust porting as we know, no rotary.
Yes the FD RX-7 was discontinued, but remained in production for Japan market until the RX-8.
Now (Today) is the first time Mazda has stopped production of a rotary powered car for 43 years.
Yes we can dream....and hope...don't hold your breath.
And I still say the Rotary is dead as we know it (as main/only power source).
Mazda has to find at least a 40% MPG and 30% Emission improvement over RENESIS to even qualify for production/investment for a 10 year car generation life cycle.
Just remember "how" the RENESIS came to be, the Engine was 'a' part time unfunded research development by Mazda Japan techs at the factory in their spare time.
Without MSP exhaust porting as we know, no rotary.
Yes the FD RX-7 was discontinued, but remained in production for Japan market until the RX-8.
Now (Today) is the first time Mazda has stopped production of a rotary powered car for 43 years.
Yes we can dream....and hope...don't hold your breath.
08-14-2012, 07:45 PM
#42
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This is the key thing that too many people forget. Both the dreamers and the naysayers. The next rotary can't be anything like "as we know it". After all, a rotary with acceptable mileage, more torque, acceptable emissions.... doesn't sound like any we know does it? 
It can be done. I'm not holding my breath, but I truly do believe that it can, and that Mazda will.
It can be done. I'm not holding my breath, but I truly do believe that it can, and that Mazda will.
08-14-2012, 08:28 PM
#44
Super Moderator
This is the key thing that too many people forget. Both the dreamers and the naysayers. The next rotary can't be anything like "as we know it". After all, a rotary with acceptable mileage, more torque, acceptable emissions.... doesn't sound like any we know does it?
It can be done. I'm not holding my breath, but I truly do believe that it can, and that Mazda will.
It can be done. I'm not holding my breath, but I truly do believe that it can, and that Mazda will.
(as main/only power source).
08-14-2012, 08:29 PM
#45
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Oh I know what you meant, wasn't trying to distort what you were saying. I disagree with that part of it, but for the purposes of my point, the first half still stands by itself
08-14-2012, 08:41 PM
#46
Super Moderator
But I really don't know about the Rotary anymore...I really don't.
IF there is a new one then it would need to be "VERY" Very Special.
As I have said before Mazda burnt another generation of young/new Rotor Heads with the RX-8 and Engine failures...Guys in North America are lucky they got an 8 year engine warranty, the rest of the world did not...so after 3 years you are on your own.
So apart from a few thousand (maybe even 10,000, over 6-8 months of sales) hard core Rotor Heads, who is going to buy a 'new' Rotary again?
Mazda were clever enough to offer the 4 door sports coupe in the RX-8, many could justify buying it (wife), but a 2 door only?, if this was to happen only 2 doors limits the market even more.
Economically the world is stuffed, I cant see there being a solid financial outlook for Mazda to risk it for many more years to come.
I know I have been going on about this back since 2008, and my thought have not changed, actually I am even less confident of it happening.
IMO Skyactiv Diesel is their new baby to push, and push hard.
08-14-2012, 08:51 PM
#47
their SkyActiv platform is selling extremelly well, and they're expecting to see "black" once again in 2013.
hopefully the 2013/2014 numbers will not only "see black", hope that it's actually some kinda "sky rocket" thing, u know what I mean ?
then we might have a chance to see Rotary again.
hopefully the 2013/2014 numbers will not only "see black", hope that it's actually some kinda "sky rocket" thing, u know what I mean ?
then we might have a chance to see Rotary again.
08-15-2012, 01:33 PM
#48
Screw gas mileage
In order to make some solid rotary sales, they'll probably need to do what Nissan is doing with the new Z car, smaller and cheaper so as not to scare people off. I think you can get a 370Z up into the 40's with the appropriate options. They should probably aim more at the FR-S/BRZ point.
08-15-2012, 01:40 PM
#49
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The next rotary could easily be down in price vs the 8. "Could" being the key word.
This would run on a few assumptions, including that Mazda has enough manufacturing in place in other countries to offset the strong yen and that the next rotary borrows heavily from the ND Miata chassis to save on development cost (up to and including making a rotary engine option for the ND Miata). This would also reduce overall cost, as smaller = cheaper and lighter (all else equal) and cheaper is what people want, lighter is what Mazda wants.
Again, 'could'.
This would run on a few assumptions, including that Mazda has enough manufacturing in place in other countries to offset the strong yen and that the next rotary borrows heavily from the ND Miata chassis to save on development cost (up to and including making a rotary engine option for the ND Miata). This would also reduce overall cost, as smaller = cheaper and lighter (all else equal) and cheaper is what people want, lighter is what Mazda wants.
Again, 'could'.
08-15-2012, 02:39 PM
#50
Super Moderator
The existing NC is from the SE/FE platform, so costs were already shared.
How 'cheap' do you want it...the RX-8 was already 'cheap' in US.
The Toybaru is REALLY cheap price and when you get up close.
There was one in my local shopping centre, that light copper colour.(nice)
As I was looking over the owner came to car and we talked, he is really disappointed with the
finish and cheapness of the car, he said things rattle, engine is noisy and tickie, gearbox has weird noises....his words "not what I expected from Toyota".
He showed me where the plastic fender liners just rattles and is floppy thin, (not fixed tight enough with clips).
I said to him, these will get sorted, never buy a first run new model (he agreed)...but is extremely disappointed.
When he asked what I drove I told him and his face lit up, 'I would have gone RX-8 if it was still available'...A lot more $$'s than what he has here though.
How 'cheap' do you want it...the RX-8 was already 'cheap' in US.
The Toybaru is REALLY cheap price and when you get up close.
There was one in my local shopping centre, that light copper colour.(nice)
As I was looking over the owner came to car and we talked, he is really disappointed with the
finish and cheapness of the car, he said things rattle, engine is noisy and tickie, gearbox has weird noises....his words "not what I expected from Toyota".
He showed me where the plastic fender liners just rattles and is floppy thin, (not fixed tight enough with clips).
I said to him, these will get sorted, never buy a first run new model (he agreed)...but is extremely disappointed.
When he asked what I drove I told him and his face lit up, 'I would have gone RX-8 if it was still available'...A lot more $$'s than what he has here though.