Mazda admits RX-8 not for winter driving
 

Alan McKenna, a car journalist talked with Mr. Pierre Deschamps (offcial spokesperson for Mazda) an Mr. Deschamps officially stated that Mazda does not recomend driving the RX-8 in winter.

So, for the ones that doubted my source...

Additionnal information can be found here, but it is in french, sorry guys : )

Use babel fish to translate the text from french to english (http://world.altavista.com/)

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/automobile...005,912712.php

ouchie. bummmerrrrrr o well lol i gotta drive somehow.. lol

Thanks for passing this along, but its rubbish. It deals with flooding for the most part. I've had my car for about 8 months now and drive it in the winter in all kinds of cold temps. Never flooded once. They couldn't sell RX-8's in canada and northern USA if the rotary engine was not able to run properly in the cold.

They should have provided more info then what they did. Weak interview.

Funny this is my 2nd winter season up here in the Northeast with no issues. My 8 has never flooded and with her Pirelli Snowsport tires on aftermarket wheels, she gets around great in the white stuff.

I do have to admit I hate the idea when I see her all full of crud and salt, but isn't that reason why we all bought our 8's, to be driven? :)

Quite odd considering the official testing footage on the DVD that came with one of my rotary mags of Mazda winter testing the RX-8 in Hokkaido...

this is bullshit...the car runs great in the winter you just NEED winter tires...that is all

give me a little while and ill translate that for you guys.

thanks

RX8 in winter
 

I agree completely with the posts saying that article is crap. It's about flooding, which was mainly an issue for people who didn't follow the manual, and has been made even less important by current ecu settings.
The real Mazda weakness it exposed was appointing an idiot for a spokesman, and letting him speak to a dim-witted writer.
Mitch

i could only do one paragraph, and im not sure how accurate it is. sry guys

the drivers who have purchased an exemplery sports coupe, the mazda rx8, should be interested in knowing this: do not use the rotary engine for a long time or else you will take a walk with remorse.

Ha, I don't think you have anything to worry about, TR1GGER. I doubt it'll get cold enough in the OC for you to even have to put a sweater on :D

I'm blown away at how well this car drives in the snow, much better then my protege 5 ever did.

I think Mazda is simply stating this because it is not designed to be a summer car. Any car with snow tires will be good in bad weather, but stating the car is not intended for winter use is accurate. It comes with summer tires for a reason, and a lot of people complain about having to buy winter tires, and the flooding. Mazda wouldn't be making this statement if a lot of people had not complained. This site is filled with bias owners, and the reality is we do not speak for everyone, so as a whole there are just as many people disapppointed in rx8 as there are people who can't find anything wrong with it. The flooding issue is not for every single RX8, but it does exist, and it's something that can happen. As I said before any car with winter tires can work in winter, but that doesn't mean that's it's intention. I do think that Mazda is contradicting itself, because they produced this car in such a mass form, and led the public to believe it was a practical sports coupe. In reality, compared to many cars, it's simply not, and when you get such a variety of people buying this car, you cannot avoid the criticism. Just my.02. :)

Deijmaster: I for one doubted your source, so for that I apologize. But I do feel that this spokesman is full of caca.

And that explanation still doesn't hold water. The Miata isn't a winter car, neither is a Porsche 911. But I don't see Mazda or Porsche spokesmen making statements that they are aren't designed for winter driving. How about the Mustang or a Corvette? I know the old fox body Mustangs were a serious bitch in wet weather and God forbid icy roads. No statements from Ford saying this is only a summer car. Really... what a load of shit. Even the Subaru Imprezza and Legacy weren't designed for winter specifically... if there a car that is? I doubt it.

All seasons? I would never consider trying to tackle winter on those if I lived in someplace that got significant snow. Proper snow tires is the only way to go.

As far as practicality goes, it's more practical than a Miata, 911, Mustang, Z3/4, 350Z, Prelude... the list can go on and on. You do you have a logical arguement about how those cars are all more practical then the 8?

Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. There's a lot more to what makes a good winter car than just having tires, and on the '8 that includes 50-50 weight balance, DSC+TCS+ABS, low torque at low RPM's, and great handling. Throw snow tires on V8 Mustang (well, maybe on the new '05) and tell me how that makes it a good winter car?

A lot of people told me I couldn't drive a Miata in the winter, which was bullshit... and the RX8 trumps the Miata in winter capabilities.

You can not put a block heater into an RX8.

I lived in Edmonton for 25 years and you can not park outside at night in -40c without a block heater. Unfortunately Edmonton and a lot of other parts of Canada get that cold more often than we like.

Any car can be driven in the winter if you have winter tires and always garage a car at night. Like a 911.

Saying that the RX8 was not designed for winter is a fair statement because Mazda made a conscience decision to make a block heater impossible in the RX8 there by limiting it to 3 seasons or mild winters at best.

If you don't live in an area where there is snow on the ground for 5 months of the year then you don't understand what a Quebecer means by "winter"

I live in Toronto now and the coldest it ever gets here is -25c and I left my car outside just to test how well it would start. It started but with a nearly 10 second crank and it took over 15 mins to warm up for the rpms to drop to 1500. That's just barely in my book and my car has 6000km on a very strong battery.

If I ever moved back to a real "winter" climate like Edmonton or Quebec city then I would have to keep my precious RX8 in a garage but I would still drive it in winter with winter tires on it.

But just because I drive my RX8 in winter does not mean my car is a "winter" car. it means I'm too poor to buy a second "winter" car!

Couldn't market a SUMMER only car
 

Just as Porsches, Jags and Vettes are not your pick of vehicles when travel in Snowy conditiions is apparent, does not mean you leave the car at home, and just as not all SUVs are alike, either are sport cars. We recently drove my sister-in laws 8, equiped with winter Perellis, four adults with skis on top, from NY to Waterville Valley, NH- in near blizzard conditions! The cars performed flawless, I think the 50/50 weight has a lot to due with it, and one does have to know how to drive in the snow/ice.
That person from Mazda who said the Mazda 8 is not for winter, either is miss-quoted, or is proabbly looking for another job now- No car company would spend the money in R&D to market a vehicle, saying that it is only for good weather.

Traction is not a winter issue.

Those of you who seem to think that traction is an issue you don't know what the Mazda guy means by "winter". Everyone in a Alaska knows to use winter tires in winter. That's a given. That's not an issue.

The most important winter issue is cold weather cranking. Is the block heater plugged in? Is the battery strong enough? How easy is it to boost the car? These are real issues that people is very cold climates deal with.

If you don't have block heater in all your other cars then you don't understand "winter"

The RX8 is not a "winter" car. The battery is too weak for serious cold. There is no block heater option. The heating system barely works below -10c because the compressor is so small. Mazda does not offer a factory winter tire package, Chevy does on the Corevette. Mazda saying the RX8 is not a "winter" car is legit. This car was meant to run well in summer the weak factory battery is proof of that enough!

But I will say that I love driving my RX8 winter much more than my old Miata. The Miata has 50/50 weight bias and is low hp/low torque. But was much more twitchy on uneven snowy surfaces. The RX8 with good winter tires is a lot more stable. As long as you know what you are doing you can drive anything in the winter as long as you can live with the compromises. But that doesn't make what you're driving a "winter" car.

And how many people live in Alaska? Sorry Canadians, but how many people live in Canada and how many 8's are sold there out of the total worldwide sales? Game set match. A small minority. AND as I stated earlier, the car was tested in hokkaido for handling and perfomance under winter conditions....it hits -16degress C.

Ok, so you can get those tires on a Vette as an option. Mustang? Miata? Porsche?

Lamest argument ever.

VikingDJ, please list all the cars sold in the US with summer tires - you'll find dozens of different vehicles, including Audis, BMWs, MINIs, GMs, Fords, Porsches, Toyotas, Hondas, and more. The reason they come with summer tires is to maximize summer performance. NO implications about suitability for winter usage is implied or expressed whatsoever. I can buy an Audi A6, A4, TT, with summer tires OEM - are you telling us that those cars are not intended to be used in winter? Ridiculous! All it means is that you will need to change to appropriate tires for winter use (which is exactly what the RX-8 owners manual advises as well).

My RX-8 does extremely well in winter. For Edmonton owners, you can fit an inline coolant heater or an oil pan heater to handle the -30 temperatures. Again a comparison, the Audi 2.7 twin-turbo engine used in the A6, allroad, and S4 does not have a block heater available. It makes a great winter car, anyway.

Regards,
Gordon

Apparently you've missed the point. This isn't a thread about how many cars are sold in Canada or anywhere else but about the RX8 being a "winter" car.

If you would read properly you will see that -16c is not cold enough to justify a block heater.

A block heater is an option in canada on a mustang and a miata. I am not sure if it is on a porsche. So the miata and mustang at least can be started in very cold climates if the block heater is used properly where the RX8 can not.

The only people who should be upset by this announcement are people who live in very cold climates. Everyone else who is not familiar with a block heater shouldn't worry. The RX8 is fine in the "cold" as long as you don't mean colder than -25c

I seen an add in Autoweek or Car and Driver that says, "Winter's over, Spring out with the Mazda Rx-8."

From the Yamaguchi RX-8 book. Caption reads:

pg 122 "Both M1 and S1 (note - RX-8 prototypes) are put through their paces on white stuff in February 2002 in the northern island of Hokkaido, Japan"

One can't not say the RX-8 was never designed and/or tested for winter driving. Winter testing of prototypes proves this is a bogus claim. (perhaps the French need to contact mother Mzda Japan to get their story straight?)

And just because it was not designed specifically for -40 degree temperatures does not count. Normal operating temperature for most any car is not -40 degrees, unless it is built for Artic or Antartica traveling. So sorry guys it's not the Mazda RX-8's fault some of you live in the furthest reaches north or south :p of the planet.

I even have video footage from Mazda somewhere showing a black RX8 tearing through the snow and what appears to be a bloody good job of it too!

I lived in Montreal for 20 years before moving to T.O. Not one car that I or my parents ever owned had a block heater and we never had problems. In fact, most people I knew who had block heaters had all sorts of other problems and even many no starts for whatever reason. (Technology has improved and I'm sure block heaters of today and engine adaptability is better than it was 20 years ago).

Ya, weak heat production below -10C = True. Small engine/limited heat

Weak battery = Save money/weight. I've never had a problem even once

No block heater offered = Go get one installed at Canadian Tire. No big deal.

If Mazda said this car is not to be driven in the winter, they would make you sign a waiver releasing them from any responsibility if you drove the car in less than 0 degrees or something like that . They would be laughed at by every other manufacturer in the world and would be suspect on all their products. They might as well close thier doors now!

Mis-quote for sure or the Mazda guy lost his job for sure, and rightful so, unfortunately.

Babelfish translates the same paragraph like this:
The motorists who became purchasers of a specimen of sporting half-compartment RX-8 of Mazda, may find it beneficial to have been quite well informed: not to let turn the rotary engine risk to cost them a walk into remorqueuse sufficiently a long time.

I interpret that to mean : Motorists who purchase the Mazda RX-8 sports coupe may benefit from being informed that if they use the rotary engine for a long time it may cost them a walk with remorse.

Hmmm... doesn't mention anything specific about cold weather -- just long-term use. Could this be why Mazda is quietly offering high-mileage 8 owners free engine swaps so they can take the well-used motors back to Japan for study????

http://64.9.213.132/rx8club.com/foru...ht=engine+swap

Thank you. And THAT was my point about Alaska and Canada population and car sales.

And as I said in the beginning of the thread I have a freakin DVD with video footage of Mazda doing that winter testing mentioned in the Yamaguchi book.

Thank you too Gordon! This was yet again another point I was trying to make.

Like I said... game, set, match.

Yet another member of forum who misinterprets what one was saying. Some things will never change. When they put summer tires on a car, that means the car is not sold from the dealer with intention to be driven in winter as is. It costs a lot of money to put winter tires on RX8, therefore it's not the the best choice for an all year car, but of course it can be used that way,. Any car can. This is to be said for many many cars, not just RX8. I basically stated CAPTAIN OBVIOUS, but people tend to look right through, create somethign that is not there and create an argument. It's funny because I know as I am typing, someone is gonna argue what I said without understanding my point. This is unavoidable when all you do is read something on a computer screen,

Regards,
VIKINGDJ

Car equipped with summer tires from the factory to the dealer are generally considered sports cars and what they are best for. The rest of the passanger car market gets 4 seasons, at least in Canada (ontario and quebec at the very least). If 4 seasons came with the RX8 I would have questioned if this car was truly a sports car and I would have been suspicious.

If you bought a car that is advertized to tackle mountains, you'll get tires that have serious mountain climbing treads as opposed to the same all seasons truck tire found on a Hyundai Santa Fe.

it's ok to me la!!!! as long as u know how to drift..hahaha..!!!!

Makes me that much more happier that I live in Texas.

LOL... this thread cracks me up. :rolleyes:

I'm with Dazy on that one, though I need new tires because it feels like winter :)

Ooh, I know! We opened our windows earlier this week because it was so nice and now we have the heat on! Just think, back to the 70s on Monday!

A little better than Alta Vista translation... after scraping a little rust off of the high school French, I think the article reads:

Motorists who bought a Mazda Rx-8 sport coupe have an interest in being well informed: not letting the rotary motor run a sufficiently long time risks costing them a remorseful walk.

The rotary motor design doesn't have camshafts nor valves, so it's required that one treat it delicately on startup, especially in winter, admits Mazda Canada.

"The motor must run at least about thirty seconds, time to warm up a little, before you turn it off, if not, there's a risk it won't restart," confirms Pierre Deschamps, spokesman for the Japanese manufacturer. "We tell our salesmen at the dealers to mention this factor, but sometimes the message doesn't get out."

The rotary motor is composed of a large cylinder in which pivots a triangular piston (thus creating three chambers). When the motor is cold, the air-fuel mix is too poor and, if it is stopped at that moment, it has every chance of flooding. This phenomenon has happened to several Rx-8 owners, according to the president of Mazda Canada, these last months. In a moment of inattention, the last had selected sixth gear, instead of reverse, which stalled the motor. Then he had to go to the repair shop, and this maneuver, which isn't covered by the warranty, can make a very disagreeable expense for the motorist at fault.

The risk is especially present in the winter, due to cold temperatures, evidently. "It's not the only vehicle to be sold in Canada that suffers from these characteristics," adds Mr. Deschamps. "In any event, Mazda doesn't really recommend driving it's sports coupe during the winter season" for various reasons.

Interesting.

Since the anti-flood-flash was applied, I have zero problems and it'

Interesting.

Since the anti-flood-flash was applied, I have zero problems, I'm an everyday driver and it's not exactly warm here (around -15°C last night). Besides, I would always recommend to let the car warm up in the winter before shutting it down, rotary or not.

Speaking of Hokkaido, I was there in August 2003. I saw a few Rx8s at Hakodate.

Although this thread is mostly about cold starts...

When it comes to winter traction, there is no debate. DSC/TCS, 50/50 weight distribution, low center of gravity, and good snow tires make this car a winter driving dream... and a safe one too!

-P23

the whole point of the article is that the rotary is not suited to starting easily in tthe cold and that if it stalls it may not be covered under warranty...therefore not recommended forr use in the winter, there is no mention of handling or RWD or any actual driving issues, just that the engine needs to be babied in the winter and not driven immediately after starting.

Do you have a link to the article?

Thanks,
Bill

Of course
 

I live in Alaska and really haven't had any problems with flooding, except when I shut it off before it warms up. As far as snow tires go: a must have! I was racing to work one day in the early spring and hit a patch of black ice. I went off the road, hit a snow bank and went airborn for 63 feet! The police officer made an official measurement and everything. I landed perfectly and didn't tweak the fram, no airbags went off, and there were no broken windows. When the shop put it on the alignment rack it was dead on. I convinced them to let me buy OZ rims and B&B exhaust to replace the damaged stock parts (and let the insurance company pay for it!)

I've had mine for the second winter now, was terrible with stock tires in the snow the first winter. Tried to buy new, but all were sold out. This winter I have P Zero Niro extreme sport all season tires. (recomend highly if you live where there are seasons) My 8 is very good in the snow now. Much better in the snow than my friends G35. Love the heated seats, traction control and ABS. Never had a flooding issue ever, and talked to many other 8 owners and never met one that did either. When mentioned at last years Rotary Revolution in Indy nobody said they ever had an engine flood problem. I think it is an exagerated problem.

I have to agree and the Rx8 is not for winter driving. But thats what I already knew when I bought the car!


Its amazing that people would actually buy a sports car and drive it during the winter time?!!

1. Wrong
2. Why is it amazing many of us drive a sports car in the winter? Much better than driving a lumbering SUV or boring sedan/coupe all winter (I have that option, but I'd rather drive my RX8 than my 4x4 in the snow). We get to enjoy driving a fun car all year round, and apparently you're missing out on the thrill of snow driving with a well-balanced RWD sportscar. Your loss...

When your rx8 gets stuck in snow, not due to the fact of traction, but due to the clearance. Then you'll understand.

its kind of like saying, I'm missing out on the thrill of riding a motorcycle when theres snow.

No, not really.

The RX8 does not sit that low... 6" of snow is no problem, and I've done this for 2 winters with the RX8, and 2 winters with a Miata prior. I'm not suggesting offroading with it... when there's 6" or more inches of snow on the road, then I'll drive the 4x4, but that has yet to happen. Maybe in the mountains or very rural areas, but they don't let more than that hit the road without plowing in this area.

Sorry man, if it snows more than a foot at one time, I can agree with you. Other than that it never crosses my mind if I'l be able to manage in a snow storm or icy conditions. I bet you don't have winter tires!!! Otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. Afterall, which true sports car do you know that you can drive in the winter? RX8.