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-   -   Interactive 16x Renesis Tech (https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-media-news-11/interactive-16x-renesis-tech-157453/)

EdwardsB 09-29-2008 09:37 AM

Interactive 16x Renesis Tech
 
Found this little interactive flash while surfing the internet. Pretty cool talks about the 16x and has some animations to go along with it. Not really any new information, but still cool to use.

http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/

There are also a few other interactive links along the side to play with.

CyberPitz 09-29-2008 09:55 AM

I think this has been posted before, but I don't care...I love it.

chiketkd 09-29-2008 09:58 AM

Nice find - especially liked the vids on how to make a rotary engine.

bulletproof21 09-29-2008 02:05 PM

^ yeah i enjoyed that too. Whole thing was cool and informative. Thanks!

this should be required viewing by all rotary owners, lol.

8 Maniac 09-30-2008 03:18 AM

it's a shame that they dont go into a whole lot of detail about the "improved tq" from the DI and changes in dimensions. Can't wait to see what they expect from those... we can all guess, but they could always be higher or lower than anticipated. We should all complain to mazda and get them to replace all of our engines with the 16x under warranty when it comes out :p:

636 09-30-2008 06:17 AM

lol please make a boost friendly engine this time no? :)

PBlue 09-30-2008 06:27 AM

if its going to the exactly the same size... it would work pretty well going into all old models... if the car is ugly, 16x-fd3s

altspace 09-30-2008 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by CyberPitz (Post 2661779)
I think this has been posted before, but I don't care...I love it.

Indeed it has. Simply search 16x.

knicks1984 09-30-2008 10:38 AM

can't wait

rotarygod 09-30-2008 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by 8 Maniac (Post 2663126)
it's a shame that they dont go into a whole lot of detail about the "improved tq" from the DI and changes in dimensions.

It looks like I may have to write another tech article.

EdwardsB 09-30-2008 11:13 AM

doesn't it have to do with the larger internal rotor housing shape, allowing the rotor to become larger, allowing for larger eccentric shaft lobes (more eccentricity), which results in a longer torque arm?...or am I way off?

This allows you to play around with different rotor parameters, and shows an illustration of the torque.


http://mikesdriveway.com/engineapp/

8 Maniac 09-30-2008 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by rotarygod (Post 2663404)
It looks like I may have to write another tech article.

your tech articles are always a nice read... but what I was going for is specific numbers they get into an actual production car with it. I'm sure we can figure out a decently accurate range to anticipate, but what matters is what mazda actually releases.

rotarygod 09-30-2008 02:02 PM

They aren't going to show something like that on an engine that is still 4-5 years out. There'd be no point to it. They are still revising it. All we can do is wait and see. This assumes of course that it will actually become a reality. The current global economics right now may change things.

There are a few things that I can talk about that would seem to make sense as to the reasons given by Mazda for the gains associated with the changes. To describe those I can't just sit down and type out a thread like I used to. I'll have to prewrite it since it'll take some calculations. I'll work on it and we'll open up a discussion session based purely on objective speculation and hopefully in the future we'll all be able to see how accurate our assumptions were. It actually sounds like fun.

Motomouse 09-30-2008 05:49 PM

do it RG :)

onefatsurfer 10-01-2008 09:08 AM

subscribed.
i like reading your articles, rg. i don't necessarily believe everything you say in them, but who cares, they're interesting to read regardless. please do write up a tech article, i haven't had any interesting things to read in a couple weeks

chiketkd 10-01-2008 02:34 PM

A question for RG or anyone else in the know:

What's the current weight of a fully dressed Renesis 13B? With a switch to alumninum side housings, how much lighter could this new engine be over the current version?

arghx7 10-02-2008 09:10 AM

I love how a lot of people talk about swapping in a 16X like you're swapping an LS6 into an LS1 Camaro, or an SR20DET into a 240sx. The wiring is going to be completely different, and likely so will the oil pan, engine mounts, etc...

rotarygod 10-02-2008 10:20 AM


Originally Posted by chiketkd (Post 2665014)
A question for RG or anyone else in the know:

What's the current weight of a fully dressed Renesis 13B? With a switch to alumninum side housings, how much lighter could this new engine be over the current version?

Just to give you an idea, a full swap to Racing Beat's aluminum side and intermediate housings on a 13B from the stock cast iron housings will shave somwhere around 40 lbs off of the block itself. If the new engine had a full composite intake manifold further weight could be saved.

chiketkd 10-02-2008 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by rotarygod (Post 2666305)
Just to give you an idea, a full swap to Racing Beat's aluminum side and intermediate housings on a 13B from the stock cast iron housings will shave somwhere around 40 lbs off of the block itself. If the new engine had a full composite intake manifold further weight could be saved.

Thanks for the info. What does the current Renesis 13B weigh?

HeavyMetal699 10-02-2008 12:46 PM


Hi Power Engine Fully Dressed (Flywheel but no clutch) less Airbox - 267.5lb (per Racing Beat)
Short Block with no attachments per MazMart - 184.0lbs
From the sticky in the tech garage

chiketkd 10-02-2008 01:43 PM

^ Excellent. Thanks. :)

chiketkd 10-02-2008 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by arghx7 (Post 2666212)
I love how a lot of people talk about swapping in a 16X like you're swapping an LS6 into an LS1 Camaro, or an SR20DET into a 240sx. The wiring is going to be completely different, and likely so will the oil pan, engine mounts, etc...

I don't think people expect this engine to be plug-n-play, however, as the external dimensions are the same as the current Renesis, it should fit into our cars with minor modifications. Plus, the factory ECU and wiring harnesses could be had for cheap from wrecked cars.

I personally will want to buy a new RX-? with the 16X Renesis (rather than do a swap) as it appears that Mazda will work to reduce the curb weights of their upcoming cars. Hopefully the engine will be offered in 2 seater and 2+2 seater configurations.

CyberPitz 10-02-2008 03:09 PM

Agreed. I'll probably find a way to keep the 8, and if I can't, I'll trade her in for the new Rexy.

robrecht 10-02-2008 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by chiketkd (Post 2665014)
A question for RG or anyone else in the know:

What's the current weight of a fully dressed Renesis 13B? With a switch to alumninum side housings, how much lighter could this new engine be over the current version?

Mazda has said the 16x is about 20% lighter.

robrecht 10-02-2008 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by rotarygod (Post 2663599)
There are a few things that I can talk about that would seem to make sense as to the reasons given by Mazda for the gains associated with the changes. To describe those I can't just sit down and type out a thread like I used to. I'll have to prewrite it since it'll take some calculations. I'll work on it and we'll open up a discussion session based purely on objective speculation and hopefully in the future we'll all be able to see how accurate our assumptions were. It actually sounds like fun.

Can't wait! Thanks

YaXMaNGTO 10-05-2008 11:27 PM


Originally Posted by rotarygod (Post 2663599)
They aren't going to show something like that on an engine that is still 4-5 years out.

4-5 years? Seriously? As in "not coming out next year"? Aww fawk.
:banghead:

bulletproof21 10-06-2008 08:10 AM

I didnt expect it next year, but 4-5 sure seems a long way off. Hopefully it is something in between, like 2010 in a 2011 model.

rotarygod 10-06-2008 09:21 AM

What year did the Renesis come out? Was it '03? Somewhere around there. The side port rotary was first shown to the public in 1995. Mazda has been working on direct injection since the mid '80's. It's only been fairly recently that they've changed the dimensions to the 16X size and again the DI setup is drastically different from anything we've seen them try previously. I think 4-5 years is fairly safe as far as assumptions on time go. If it's sooner then great! Even better. The thing that may make it appear sooner is the very thing that could kill it before it ever becomes reality and that is world economy. I'd rather expect several years and see it sooner than expect less and be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

Musker 10-06-2008 10:16 AM

This is actually pretty exciting :)

onefatsurfer 10-06-2008 05:45 PM

yeah. plus i won't be ready to get another car for at least 4 years anyway, so..
hope they hold off and just keep making it better..

zoom44 10-06-2008 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by rotarygod (Post 2670662)
What year did the Renesis come out? Was it '03? Somewhere around there. The side port rotary was first shown to the public in 1995. Mazda has been working on direct injection since the mid '80's. It's only been fairly recently that they've changed the dimensions to the 16X size and again the DI setup is drastically different from anything we've seen them try previously..

your forgetting what we learned last year tho- that they have actually been working this since the renesis was finished and production starting. i agree tho- better to be pleasantly surprised when it comes earlier than be disappointed

knicks1984 10-07-2008 10:40 AM

I agree on taking a couple of years to make, but by then it's unsure what the economy will be like and also the status of the CAFE laws. I would expect it to come out in 2011 as a 2012 model. Hopefully the government and economy won't hurt the Rx.

Lasse wankel 10-11-2008 03:29 PM

Hmm... it would be nice to do a 1 rotor Renesis test engine with DI port injection with the new Australian made Vi-Pec V44 injection system controlling everything hmm again...

/Lasse

HeavyMetal699 10-12-2008 01:26 AM

I actually used google to find out the cafe laws and they are a bit different from what I thought.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/CARS/rules/CAFE/overview.htm


The current penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards is $5.50 per tenth of a MPG under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.
So if they up the fleet MPG it just means the RX-8 will cost more.

Of course there is more. If anyone wants to read the final draft and summerize the important parts please do.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site...7529cdba046a0/

Blackout04RX 10-12-2008 06:50 AM

i have two questions. is our motor seriously that light?! I knew it was light but thats insane. i have lifted blocks on 4Cyl Hondas, nissans, a VR6 out of a VW, and a LOVELY rusted out empty carcass of a Chevy V8. none of which were in any way pleasant to lift.

77mjd 10-12-2008 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by YaXMaNGTO (Post 2670366)
4-5 years? Seriously? As in "not coming out next year"? Aww fawk.
:banghead:


If something better is not out late next year as a '10, looks like it's a 370z for me. I have an '04 8 and there's no way in hell I'm waiting 4 more years for a better rotary. The November auto show should be making my decision for me. I'm hoping Mazda is just playing dumb in how tight lipped they are being about the new rotary.

vX-2 10-12-2008 09:45 PM

Any idea on expected WHP/BHP ? (assuming it's a 2 rotor, but I really hope for a 3-rotor, since they could improve on the MPG like they've claimed they could do)...

It'll be sweet if it could do a rough 350-400HP @ N/a.... Lolz... am i dreaming?

robrecht 10-12-2008 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by vX-2 (Post 2679790)
Any idea on expected WHP/BHP ? (assuming it's a 2 rotor, but I really hope for a 3-rotor, since they could improve on the MPG like they've claimed they could do)...

It'll be sweet if it could do a rough 350-400HP @ N/a.... Lolz... am i dreaming?

Yes, you're dreaming. It's a 2-rotor, probably 280-300 bhp.

EdwardsB 10-12-2008 11:59 PM

has anyone heard anything about the readline...with the increase in displacement the rpm's may be lowered, I remember reading that they were trying to overcome this a while back. Does anyone have any new information on this, although they will probably withhold this until the last minute.


here is a thread from Paul where you can hear it run...in case you missed this-
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=16x

rollerbldes 10-13-2008 02:21 AM

The 09s have direct injection.. do they not?

So at least that's some progress. But I don't think the 16x will utilize the RX-8 body, probably something completely different. I mean they just refreshed the RX-8, so I doubt it will come very soon.

SayNoToPistons 10-13-2008 02:40 AM


Originally Posted by 77mjd (Post 2679621)
If something better is not out late next year as a '10, looks like it's a 370z for me. I have an '04 8 and there's no way in hell I'm waiting 4 more years for a better rotary. The November auto show should be making my decision for me. I'm hoping Mazda is just playing dumb in how tight lipped they are being about the new rotary.

The revised RX8 just came out for 2009. So, it's 370z for you.

rotarygod 10-13-2008 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by rollerbldes (Post 2680074)
The 09s have direct injection.. do they not?

So at least that's some progress. But I don't think the 16x will utilize the RX-8 body, probably something completely different. I mean they just refreshed the RX-8, so I doubt it will come very soon.

Direct injection has not been implemented on a production rotary yet.

chiketkd 10-13-2008 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by robrecht (Post 2679837)
Yes, you're dreaming. It's a 2-rotor, probably 280-300 bhp.

From the 20-23% increase in power Mazda projected when they showed the 16X Renesis, that estimate seems about right. Torque should be around 200ft-lbs.

CyberPitz 10-13-2008 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by 77mjd (Post 2679621)
If something better is not out late next year as a '10, looks like it's a 370z for me. I have an '04 8 and there's no way in hell I'm waiting 4 more years for a better rotary. The November auto show should be making my decision for me. I'm hoping Mazda is just playing dumb in how tight lipped they are being about the new rotary.

You'd rather them rush it out and have some possible engine failures? Or have them work on it a little longer to make sure its' going to be at 100%?

77mjd 10-13-2008 08:46 PM


Originally Posted by CyberPitz (Post 2680437)
You'd rather them rush it out and have some possible engine failures? Or have them work on it a little longer to make sure its' going to be at 100%?

The problem is I have an '04 and if it takes 3-4 more years for the new one to come out I will be over 100,000 miles and honestly I don't want it after the engine warranty is over.

CyberPitz 10-14-2008 10:23 AM

That would suck...going RIGHT over the warranty, engine dies, 16x comes out a year later. *facepalm*

hry_glb 10-14-2008 02:47 PM

Time for another 4-5 years instant noodles spree.

GaMEChld 01-12-2009 02:09 PM

Aluminum eh? rotarygod, if you are listening, can you speculate anything on the strength or longevity of the engine making a switch to aluminum? Would this make it too risky to turbo or anything like that? (Just theories of course).

dillsrotary 01-12-2009 02:14 PM

the new EVO engine switched to aluminium block instead of iron, though it is piston the strength is more than enough for the boost.

Huey52 01-12-2009 02:16 PM

Excellent. I didn't realize until reviewing this that the upcoming 16X has the same overall footprint as the present engine, yet greater displacement and therefore power. Ya gotta love ever improving materials technology! Well done Mazda!!!


Originally Posted by EdwardsB (Post 2661762)
Found this little interactive flash while surfing the internet. Pretty cool talks about the 16x and has some animations to go along with it. Not really any new information, but still cool to use.

http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/16x/

There are also a few other interactive links along the side to play with.



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