Dissed again by Motor Trend - "Best Handling"
 

Just got the last issue where they have a comprehensive "best handling car" test with everything from Mini to S2000 to Porsche, but no RX8!!! This from the same mag that proclaimed the 8 superior to the S2000 and 350z just two years ago. WTF?

Porsche won the test, BTW.

has the Porsche been redesigned at all in the past few years? Maybe R&T wants to give it to some new blood...

I read this article at my eye doctor. Was looking everywhere for the 8.. nope, they used a MSpeed 3. <barf>

Running a best handling car article without the rx8 is like having hottest woman in the world without (insert your favorite woman here).

I saw the article when it came out on the racks. I couldn't believe they didn't pick an 8 to include.

Rankings (and biggest putdowns);

10. Civic Si (too soft)
9. Z06 (very nervous feeling)
8. MS3 (lotsa torque steer, but faster lap than S2000!)
7. S2000 (lack of chassis rigidity)
6. 335i (heavy and lazy, but best real world compromise)
5. Mini Cooper S JCW GP (exaggerated traits)
4. Evo (drifts and wears tires, but "idiot proof")
3. Exige S (rough ride, a bit twitchy)
2. Cayman S (less rigid than the 911)
1. 911 GT3..."perfect"

i dont know about dissed, maybe neglected, dosnt seem like they said anything negative about the 8

I call it a diss by virtue of the fact that they didn't say ANYTHING at all...

Oh well

Isn't a very good commentary if they didn't include it. But then the Z didn't get included. I'm sure they are steamed--they are still fuming about the C&D comparo.

oh well. i don't care.

^ All I see is them trying to sell magazines.

Theres no doubting the Cayman and GT3 should be at the top. RX8 should have been in that group.

perhaps they only ran the cars the Automakers provided to them.

The Z didn't get included and neither did the STI. Get over it people, they didn't include some cars that probably should have been. Maybe Mazda couldn't supply them with an RX-8 in time...

Here's your answer...

"The Contest: Crown the best-handling production car in America



The Contestants: Cars built and certified to Yankeeland standards, and available for sale to regular and/or working-rich folks at dealerships in 2007.

The Criteria: The supreme grand champion handler may be a car that generates big hairy test numbers on the skidpad-or not. It may snake through a slalom course in record time-or not. It may go around a racetrack faster than any other-or not. It will do all of the above with exceptional finesse while eliciting broad smiles on its driver's face. And our selection will likely provoke feverish haranguing in the blogosphere.

Round One Eliminations

Our first cut at the 250 or so available nameplates involved a morning of caffeinated debate over donut holes around the conference table at One Motor Trend Tower. Then, taking a cue from the sports world, which makes a multi-billion dollar business of picking winners, we divided the good cars into four divisions:


Front-engine/Front-drive
Front-engine/rear-drive
Front-engine/all-wheel-drive
Mid- or rear-engine/rear- or all-wheel drive



When the advocating, name-calling, and carbo-loading was over, we had eight finalists in each "division" ready to advance.

For Round 2, we departed from the sports-world's one-on-one tournament style and staged four eight-way virtual comparison tests. By combing past road tests and drive reports to jog our collective driving experience memory banks for clues to each car's handling vices and virtues, we advanced only the very best-balanced, most sublime twisty-road dance-partners to the finals. Here's how they shook out."



"Mazda RX-8-Stick a high-revving pony-keg-sized rotary engine behind the front axle of an already light car, then apply zoom-zoom chassis tuning, and you're onto the formula for a sweet handling 2+2. Like the S2000 and MX-5, it's a finesse player, not a performance-spec-generating braggart, and in the final analysis, our jury chose the S2000 to wave the finesse flag."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...ear_drive.html

an OE S2000 is better than an OE RX-8 under that particular scenario :dunno:

Why don't you get over it? Or at least off your high horse? There's nothing wrong with critcizing a magazine article, unless the criticism is totally off base, which you just admitted isn't.

It is off base considering what I posted right after that... The RX-8 didn't make the cut, and in light of the criteria it should not have. Handling wise the S2K is the better car and if it came down to either or the correct car got the nod.

Ike, youre captain buzzkill. coming on an RX8 board and telling us the S2K is better than our 8's is like going to the UNC board and saying Duke is better.

^ how is it off base? This is so simple my 4 year-old can understand it. My point was the same mag declared the RX8 superior to the S2000 in their 2004 comparison test, including stating that the RX8 had quicker reflexes and better ride quality than the S2000. Their "jury" picked the S2000 even though it was contrary to their own test results.

i remember that article saying the rx8 won because it handles great and its the best as a daily commuter. s2k was the best handling car in that comparison...
theres a difference between what in their view is a better car vs better handling car.

^ they never proclaimed an all out "best handler" in that test. They said the RX8 had better reflexes, steering and a better ride vs. the S2000 having slightly better cornering grip and braking.

Looking at the MT test, the 8 should have done better than both the S2000 and the 335i because it is a much more rounded handling evaluation.

since you are all about stats, the s2000 had the best stats in all the handling categories
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ecs_price.html

and they never mentioned "slightly", you added that on your own. when they said "S2000, though narrowly pipped by the Nissan's power, is best in cornering and braking."

Man you're annoying. If .03g in the skidpad and .1 sec. in the figure 8 isn't "slight", then what is? Anyways, are you gonna acknowledge that you're wrong; they never proclaimed the S2000 as the better handling car as you suggested.

But since your quoting, you left out that the S2000 has "exceptional grip and quick reflexes" but has a "buckboard ride on anything but smooth asphalt", where the 8 is "exceptionally well-balanced and behaved" and "the RX-8 has the fastest reflexes, trailed by the S2000 and the heavier-feeling 350Z."

i just thought its funny you added the word "slight" when talking about what s2000 did better than the 8, yet you didnt use that word when talking about reflex which the rx8 did better.

???
i never said they proclaimed that MT said s2000 is the best handling car in the comparison. i only said "i remember that article saying the rx8 won because it handles great and its the best as a daily commuter. " i added the s2000 is the best handling car in the comparison in a different sentence deduced by the stats given in the article.

this new comparison is the best handling car not the best car, the rx8 is the better car to MT in that article. but s2k had the better stats, not to mention that s2k is in A stock while rx8 is in B stock. do you really expect a car that compromises performance and strike a great balance between handling and comfort is a better handling car than what is essentially a hardcore club racer?

all i'm saying is that you are assuming that rx8 won that comparison means its a better handling car.

I never said the 8 is a better handling car because it won the comparo, but the article does nothing to suggest the 8 has any handling vices while the S2000's ride sucks. Considering that the new MT tests evaluate everything related to handling, including ride, feel, ergonomics, rigidity, etc., that the 8 might have been a better choice.

My original point is that MT didn't include the 8 in the best cars under $30K a few months ago, and now it's not including the 8 again.

And you're still annoying.

i like to annoy fanbois :)
but i get your point, still, they get what is available and what they feel should be in it. they even explained that they felt s2k represents that segment well... if you get mad every time the rx8 is not included in a mag comparison, you read way too much into it.

Thats ok, I know it's important to you to be Ike's top bitch. ;)

whatever makes you feel better :)

WTF! Why does anyone give two pieces of crap what MT thinks? They're comparing a Civic Si with a 911 GT3. Thanks MT, that's pretty helpful -- now I know exactly what car to buy. Their writing is boring, biased, and not entertaining.

The RX-8 hasn't changed for years now. Most (if not all) of the cars on the list have had changes more recently. You didn't see the C5 Corvette in every comparison towards the end of its life cycle either because people were bored with it. They're trying to sell magazines not compile the most unbiased, perfect list of all time.

They obviously wanted to get a variety of cars in and the S2K and RX-8 were too similar in their standpoint. If the MS3 beat the S2K on THIS track it would most certainly have beaten the RX-8. That's not exactly going to look good now is it? You've got a cheaper Mazda beating a more expensive Mazda in what the more expensive one supposedly does best. I know it's more complicated than that, but it doesn't look good on paper to the average n00b.

Guys - WTF does 'skid pad rating' have to do with HANDLING? That's a test of GRIP of the tires, mostly. Handling - or "good handling" is largely SUBJECTIVE. :)

Agreed about the weighting most give to skidpad results is far too great.

But this MT test is actually a pretty good, maybe the best handling evaluation I've seen - I can't find much fault with their methodology of the actual test, just their car selection.

Otherwise, astute readers should always draw their own conclusions from these tests based on those handling aspects that resonate best with them. I still want a car as toss-able as a Miata without a punishing ride. Looks like the Cayman does that best in this test.

I use MotorTrend to wipe my bum. Given that this thread is now largely about what MT might have said, thought, implied, and not said, thought, or implied in a past bullshit comparison article in relation to how it creates the pool of cars for some other bullshit MT article that may have drawn upon different contributing drivers and writers, I'm going to print this thread and use it to also wipe my bum.

:iwstupid: Sort of.....They may have come up (argueably) with the "best handling car" i.e. the GT3, but the roster of wannabees was picked from the dart board (over coffee) while staring at the freeway. They certainly knew that most of them had NO chance of handling anything more than a roundabout very well, but it's plain they enjoyed writing all the stupid copy saying how 'great' or 'crappy' this car or that car was in such and such a test. Plus all the pretty colorladen graphics, which I thought were very helpful and well done showing REAL parameters of how cars actually handle and why.

To the typical street driver, just having a car similar to their own attempting anything like this got them more readership than another boring Porsche, Lambo, Audi, MB, some lightweight Lotus or other mixup.

Come on guys this is an 'everymans' car rag. Whada you expect?

Did anyone possibly consider the idea that Mazda didn't give them an RX-8 to test with? Usually, the manufacturers provide the cars and the mags just review them.

Doesn't all this lead to a pain in the ass?

Now that you mention it, it does kind of burn a little.

If this was "The Best Handling Car in America With a Compliant Ride" you guys would have a legit gripe.

Face it, we all think that any test which doesn't include an RX-8 sucks ass. And we're right!

BTW-one lap tests are deceptive. How does a car handle on hot tires?

lol

That must be the most retarded comparo i've seen.

Actually it was a very good comparo and a very interesting read. Perhaps it was a little too in depth...

Here are the lap time results around Laguna Seca for those not wanting to buy the mag.

Civic SI: 1:54.990
Mini Copper S JCWGP: 1:51.733
Honda S2K: 1:50.738
MS3 GT: 1:50.375
BMW 335i: 1:49.038
Mitsubishi Evo IX MR: 1:47.926
Porsche Cayman S: 1:47.577
Lotus Exige S: 1:45.818
Corvette Z06: 1:40.919
Porsche 911 GT3: 1:39.517

geez get over it! at least the Crossfire wasn't included too! :)

STi or 350z included?

I am surprise the Mazdaspeed beat hte S2000

Hmm...those don't sit well with me. How come they are so close?

^ You think 10 seconds is close?

Well at least the MS3 beat the S2K.

Really...being down by 10 seconds is getting walked.

Why are people so upset? Don't forget the RX-8 won just about every comparo since it was introduced (althought not by numbers). It wasn't included in this one, so what? Neither did 35Z, M3, RS4, F430 or Lambo since they included the GT3.

yea, the MS3 has a faster lap time than S2k and would beat the RX-8 too, but at some point you gotta ask how much does straight line performance has to do with it with lap time. They're not comparing cornering speed now, are they? Even if they included the 8, some of us would still argue it's slower because it was designed softer to ride good, blah blah, and if it has the Mazdaspeed suspension it would be faster, blah blah blah...

Ah....why even border.

For that matter, 3 seconds is a big difference for one lap of a track.