quack_p

I bought my car based partly on CR's favorable review. I did more research afterwards, but CR got me interested. I admit, though, I'm one of those people who almost imagined himself driving a Camry or Accord until I met the RX-8. Never again! :D

The survey asks if you've experienced a "major" problem in any of CR's 14 reliability categories (fuel, engine, exhaust, etc.). It's up to the respondent to decide what's major. The left speaker on my 94 Civic went out after 10 years, and the display on the radio has never lighted properly. But I still said I had not experienced a major electrical problem on my survey. Maybe someone else would have said the Civic has crappy electrical.

Slims8

You are exactly right. I'm not saying the RX-8 is an unreliable car. The motor is strong, but I definitely believe there are some of these problems out there. Obviously if everyone was having problems the car wouldn't have made it this far. If Ford's Firestone tires blew up on every vehicle, I'm sure they would be out of business. I have had very bad luck, and have talked to at least a dozen people who have also. That does not say "The RX-8 is unreliable". Neither does the rattles, scratches, gas or oil consumption, fogged lenses, squeaking, transmission rattling, or "lack of horsepower".

My statement "Every one of them has the same symptoms." was referring to the one's that have had transmission problems. They all say the same thing. Not everyone has them, but there is obviously a problem somewhere.

zoom44

agreed- and i hope yours gets resolved sooner rather than later.

quack_p

I don't have the magazine version of the report, but I don't see anything on CR's website that identifies the AC amplifier as the basis for its reliability data. The data comes from owner surveys, and the survey doesn't get that specific.

buzzardsluck

Keep in mind also that people who post problems are posting because of something that has gone wrong. People dont come home and post that their car ran fine today. Had mine since Aug, only been in for TSB stuff. The service was super. By the way, my 8 ran flawless today.

Roaddemon

CR is probably refering to the recalls and TBS's. What they don't say is Mazda has addressed all those issues in a timely manner. Mazda takes responsbility for it's product and takes care of it's customers. No doubt next years CR's report will be above average for reliability. My 8 runs like a fine swiss watch. I have no problem with it. I'm totally sastisfied. It's a jewel in today's automotive industry.

Slims8

Hmmm...

Hard 8

I think (obviously) some Mazda dealers and service departments are better than others. Mine really is pretty good.

RotaryNoob

I must admit, today I my 8 took a few extra seconds of cranking to start and I do have the M flash...


I was also just about out of gas.

No problems here (knock on wood).

MarthaStewart

Wait just a minute here. Are you telling me that the rx8 is really a "truck" and not a sports car? Hmmmmm. Well, so I suppose I drive a "truck" hmmmmmmm??????

s13lover

They must have had a misprint or something considering all of the individual high scores in the 14 categories. Hopefully, people will write some letters so the editior. Then again, the damage has already been done.

quack_p

Trashing CR is like trashing the RX-8 Club because people post negative things about the RX-8. CR is reporting what owners told them in their survey. The ratings are not based on a technical review of the car or service records or anything like that. It's an opinion survey of owners. Anyway, here's more from their website. I'm probably beyond my copyright limit, but this is all background info, not road test reports or survey data, so maybe they won't care...


WHY DOES IT LOOK RELIABLE BUT GETS AN X?

This is a frequently asked question about our reliability charts. Sometimes a vehicle (especially a 2003 model) will have seemingly high Ratings, such as "excellent" or , "very good" in the 14 trouble spots, but gets a below-average (X) reliability verdict. That’s because at least some of the trouble-spot Ratings didn’t compare well with the average ratings for that model year, as shown in the average vehicle chart. For instance, the 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee, shown here, was rated in eight categories and in six. By comparing that with the Ratings for the average 2003 model, you can see that the Grand Cherokee’s Ratings are worse than the average in five areas, one of which--transmission--is weighted more heavily. The result is a below-average (X) reliability verdict.
Key to trouble-spot Ratings

Percentage of owners reporting problems

"Excellent" 2.0% or less

"Very good" 2.0% to 5.0%

"Good" 5.0% to 9.3%

"Fair" 9.3% to 14.8%

"Poor" More than 14.8%


Asterisk (*): Not enough responses to evaluate.

Blank column: Model not made that year.



Key to reliability verdicts
Red check: Better-than-average overall reliability for that year.

- Gray dash: Average overall reliability for that year.

x Black x: Worse-than-average overall reliability for that year.




The reliability verdicts tell you at a glance which vehicles, by model and year, have an overall reliability record that's average or better than average. The verdicts are on a relative scale, compared with the average for that year, not on the problem-rate scale used for the trouble spots (see above). We give extra weight to critical components--engine, cooling, transmission, and driveline.

scottmhr1

Just throwing 2 cents in, owned my 8 for a little over two months, built in 7/04 after many of the original problems were fixed. Has been perfect so far, no squeaks, rattles, engine or tranny problems. Biggest problem I've had is that people in my small town are getting used to seeing it and don't get whiplash when they see me drive by!

beachdog

OK, first, everyone that is getting defensive/emotional about this, just unwad your panties.

I have been subscribing to Consumer Reports since the 70's, probably longer than many of you are on the planet. I have filled out their annual survey religiously every year for over three decades. This past year I filled out the survey and included the accurate answers to the survey questions on my RX8. If you want to bitch to anyone about the rating, bitch to me and your fellow RX8 owners who also responded to the survey.

From personal experience, I can tell you that I have had extraordinarily good ownership experiences when I have followed CR's results and purchased cars from their recommended list. I can also tell you that I have had much worse ownership experiences when I have purchased the vehicles which they rated low in reliability. Specifically, the only car that I have owned in the last 30 years that required multiple rides on the back of a flatbed was, guess what, rated poor reliability by Consumer Reports. (I am not going to post what kind of car here, I am not referring the the RX8).

Now, in the case of the above referenced car and the RX8, I purchased both of these cars before Consumer Reports reviewed or surveyed the cars (don't confuse the two - reviews are what their engineeers do (BTW, their engineers love the RX8 and gave it a great review in the Dec 2003 issue), surveys are what the car's owners do) Despite the fact that Consumer Reports surveys were low for these two cars, both of these cars are still among the favorite cars I have ever owned. I bought the RX8 knowing right up front that it was first year of production and knew that there were risks associated with buying first year models. Now Consumer Reports has confirmed that there are reliability issues. (I helped them to tabulate the facts) I still love the car and enjoy it and plan to keep it long after the Consumer Reports survey is relevant.

If some of you are so resentful that Consumer Reports reported things you don't want to see in print, then get a subscription and participate in the survey.

FrankRizzo60

I have my RX8 14 months, 4483 miles. Just had the water pump replaced today. The seals were bad and antifreeze was leaking out. Ironicaly, when I returned home, the cooling fan ran for 15 min before I turned the ignition key to the on position to stop it. First time ever that I heard the cooling fan on after shutting down. Strange. I live in S.Florida.

mtnpass

Well said beachdog, it was owners of 8's that rated their personal experience.....as the 8 is not for everyone, we cannot salm or criticize CR. They were only relaying surveys and info obtained by owners.......Don't shoot the messenger.

bureau13

Maybe, but this stuff should be weighted by severity. Squeaking breaks and rusted wheel hubs would fall into the "Who gives a f*&$?" category, whereas the car stalling and subsequently failing to start, as in my friend's new BMW 3-series, or the brakes failing and sending another friend's Jetta through a stoplight...those would have a bit more impact.

As for the reflashes, those shouldn't be considered reliability issues unless they were fixing a real reliability problem. The reflash for flooding would count, but I don't believe any of the others should.

For me, the ONLY problem I've had to take the car to the dealer to fix has been cracked tail-lights. My hubs are a bit rusty and my seat creaks, but those are not worthy of a visit until I have a better reason to go. For a first year car I'd have to say I'm insanely pleased at the reliability. Then again, I come from an FD and over the last few years of ownership I think I spent more time under the hood than I did in the driver's seat. Of course, if the dealer mechs actually knew ANYTHING about that car, it may not have been so bad.

jds

EDIT: From another post in this thread:
The reliability verdicts tell you at a glance which vehicles, by model and year, have an overall reliability record that's average or better than average. The verdicts are on a relative scale, compared with the average for that year, not on the problem-rate scale used for the trouble spots (see above). We give extra weight to critical components--engine, cooling, transmission, and driveline.

So I guess they do attach weights to areas that actually matter.

Another editorial comment about CR's method here: Reporting reliability compared to averages for the model year really doesn't tell you anything about reliability. Who cares if a car is "below average" because 5% of owners reported some problem whereas the average was 3%? The absolute numbers should be the headline, and the relative numbers the footnote. Just my opinion...

Zoom49

I was also one of the owners that submited a responce to th CR survey. As one of the first owners of a 8 in the US I have an early build (vin below 1500) and up untill last week, I was still driving on the original flash. I have had no hard start or other issues. My only repairs were the two recalls and issues with weak A/C performance. I agree with previous comments their classification of one of least reliable is overly harsh. My car is a daily driver with over 18k miles and has never
failed me.
This car is a joy to drive with excellent handling and excellent performance. I feel that the issues which have been noted are not reliability issues (except cold start) which I have never expeienced. I paln on driving my 8, and enjoying it's reliable performance for many years to come.

Grabitquick

It's never been rated a "Best Buy" at their website. Where did you get the info? Either way, I love mine and it's problem-free so far. No complaints. :D

Grabitquick

Also, according to the CR website, it rates the RX-8 4th overall (well into the "excellent" range) out of a total of 16 cars it classifies as "sporty cars," behind only the Audi S4, BMW M3 and Subaru Impreza WRX STi. The 350Z and Acura RSX, while "recommended," are still in the bottom half of the group. So, do I feel cheated or dumb for buying the RX-8? Not hardly.

boothguy

Consumer Reports has had a hard-on for Mazda's rotary engined products for years. They couldn't write a complimentary sentence about these cars, let alone a whole review.

Shamblerock

I have read their articles for years and you can tell the people that interpret feedback on automobiles at CR don't really know that much about cars. There is another source for this information that is very accurate and much more explicit in their assessments. Its the LemonAid Guide. If they say there are major issues and the y view the car as unreliable, you should pay a little more attention.

spork

I can easily see it being listed under "lower than average reliability" if "reliability" just meant random issues.

So far this car has more issues than most of the cars I've driven. And I haven't had it for that long! My only issues my Camry had were with the air conditioner which made a sound and wasn't cold. That was fixed with more freons and fixing the compressor. The other problem was this problem where it would die after I started it occasionally. That was caused by never replacing the stock battery (it pretty much died after 7 years which is pretty good).

This car you have to worry about flooding (though it's not much of a problem now), much lower than advertised mileage (for most people), extra oil consumption, and air conditioner issues (the first day I already noticed that I can have my air con on cold but not all the way down and the middle vents spat out HOT air).

These are all issues that I can see people saying the car is not reliable because of, but personally for me, they're not really an issue. I'm hoping that's the case at least since I can live with all the "quirks" (except mileage) easily but I wouldn't like it so much if the car became a maintenence nightmare in a few years. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

RXLogic

I think many of the posts on this thread are missing one rather critical point: The CR rating is relative rather than absolute. CR is not saying the RX8 is unreliable. They are saying that the RX8 is less reliable than most the cars they are comparing, all but one of which are not first year models.

beachdog

boothguy, I can't speak to the rx7's since my collection of CR doesn't go back that far anymore. Contrary to your belief above, the CR engineers loved the rx8 when they did a full review in their December 03 issue.

I'll say it again, CR rates the cars and writes their reviews. The CR engineers' OPINION of the rx8 is that it is a good sports car, in fact, one of the best tested. CR uses different basis for testing sports cars vs sedans. If they didn't then there would be no such thing as a good sports car.

The owners of the RX8 are surveyed and CR tabulates the results. CR employs professional statisticians and their reliability reports are statistically valid. If they don't receive adequate responses or if there are aberrations in the surveys, they will withhold the report or the portion of the report.

To summarize:
CR's engineers TEST the vehicles and publish their OPINION. =good

RX8 owners are surveyed and CR tabulates, analyzes and published the FACTS. =bad

Like it or not, CR will not recommend a car with less than average reliability. So, chill out and have a hit of your favorite depressant. The 8 has lots of good company. There is not a single recommended Mercedes Benz and I believe only one marginal BMW when it comes to CR's relaibility results. People that want MB or BMW products are still buying them and their resale value is strong. People that want to buy an 8 will still buy an 8. Reality is that the negative information presented on this forum probably has a greater impact on potential buyers and resale value than CR.