spectre26

Well the day or reckoning has come and gone... and no car i am able to reach out and touch yet alone see. But its only a day over the date (02 Dec) they mentioned that the car would be in. To be honest i kinda expected it. Few ventures ever go to schedule. Delay is always 2 be expected.

I called T W Whites about an hour ago. Thats when i was told no car was in or at least none that they knew of. I asked if Neil was around but was told he was in Europe somewhere... or Japan, not too sure. Either way he is uncontactable. So its kinda tough getting info on the cars status. To make things worse... well dunno if its worse but well... i'm off 2 cyprus for some winter sun for a couple of weeks. As such i cant really do any follow up on the car

I know that having said what i just have, conspiracy theroys will be rife. But just remember i'm just following up as and when i can and will keep u guys updated whenever i get info. Still got my fingers crossed on that test drive. Just try 2 keep an open mind (know what some of u r like ) We can only give him a fair chance.

Deslock

LOL, why is this not surprising? Well, thanks for reporting in and enjoy your trip.

Rasputin

Thanks for the update, spectre26.

RENESIS_NEENJA

well..it's been a month.. have we heard anything from this guy ??

Rasputin

Nothing, no!

wona8

I bet its gonna have a carb and get around 6mpg with a street port. The old na 13b from the fc has been around a long time, and the best numbers Ive seen with the car staying efi is around 200whp, that is up from the 120 or so stock so you have an 80 hp gain. so if the rx8 made 170-190whp stock it seems like you could get 250-260whp and still stay na and efi? but there is no way this could happen with intake and ecu alone. it would take a large street port and way to many other things to mention, and there is no way it would be streetable. I just cant see a dealer getting those numbers and not spending 10 grand a car in the process.

RENESIS_NEENJA

spectre26

Well Here is the long awaited conclusion to this topic. I went to T W Whites showroom yesterday to check up on things. I was given the following letter from Neil White.

We have now decided NOT to proceed with the RX-8 300 Project.


We have tested the ‘finished’ car several times and the DYNO readings have ranged from 282 bhp to 303 bhp - this would be acceptable from a sales and marketing point of view, but we do have technical issues with the ‘running’ of the vehicle.


These issues include :-

Hot start problem we cannot resolve
Flat spots we cannot iron out
MPG of 13.0 to 13.8
Question mark over long term reliability


We do not want to compromise our position in the market or the RX-8 in general, so therefore please inform any of your customers who were interested in the 300, that we feel it would be UNWISE to boost their RX-8 to this level of performance. The reliability will just not be good enough for a MAZDA.

Everyone at whites who is aware of the forums and the reception the topic has had thus far is bracing themselves for the torrent of "I told you so" that is inevitably gonna come.

To be honest I am a lil gutted that they weren't able to pull it off reliably, would have loved to have taken the test drive that Neil offered. Can only give the guy the credit for at least spending the time and money to try and achieve it. Would be nice if maybe he keeps what he has learnt from this project and trys to work it out slowly on the back burner, sort of a part time pet project. Would be a waste to just bin it.
__________________

Sportura_Collection

Well doesn't that just suck.

RENESIS_NEENJA

........

zoom44

no finished car no dyno sheets and no mention of what they did to get those numbers.

is anyone suprised?

rotary crazy

not really

RENESIS_NEENJA

yeah... guess I really shouldn't act so surprised.. >_<

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, what zoom said.

Red Devil

If they put in all that time and money, you'd think they'd offer what they can "reliably" just to gauge public opinion regarding purchase of the car. Maybe with 260bhp it is acceptable and driveable. A waste to do the work and not even offer a compromised product.

Oh well, not in England so it doesn't affect me either way.

cleoent

I am flabbergasted.

RX-Hachi

I wonder if White found out the hard way about what Mazda had already researched. The old RX-Evolv concept had an early 13B MSP with an output of 280hp. Later, as the RX-8 was ready for production, the Renesis figures went down to 250ps/247hp. Except for the JDM version, which is still claimed to be 250 ps, the rest of the world is around ~232 hp.

Seems like the Renesis has the potential for 280 hp in NA form, but the downside trade offs are too great. Mazda already knew this.

Red Devil

280hp was around the voluntary Japanese production hp limit at the time of the Evolv's release, correct? I think it was just a pie-in-the-sky figure like with any other concept - not to be taken literally.

rotary crazy

the renesis in the evolve was capable of 280ps but it was too complicated and expensive, it was claim by mazda engineers that it was as powerful as the fd engine and the last fd was over 280ps, one thing you can chek that allmost made it into production was the double trothel body, there were other features that the rx-8 renesis dont have for relaibility isues and ease of production.

I am hearing some rumors that the engine on the mazdaspeed rx-8 is going to be a development of this, 13b renesis with a lot more power but still NA 17 to 23% more, engine still in development so no final # yet, some of its features are larger secondary ports, higher compression rotors and higher red line, the down side its the torque dont change much.

no word on DI but I think if they get the compresion up it is safe to asume they will use DI.

flame suit on

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

"Hot start problem we cannot resolve" - Mazda replaced my engine because of that problem.
"Flat spots we cannot iron out" - That should be able to be taken care of with tuning.
"MPG of 13.0 to 13.8" - An improvement in gas milage, how is that a problem?
"Question mark over long term reliability" - Run the engine on a computer controlled dyno for a couple of weeks, 24/7.

In the end, we had engineer that said I wonder if we could do it and a salesman that heard that and said we can do it. I would like to hear what they did to get as far as they did and learn from their mistakes.

spectre26

I am intending to conact Neil White personally and maybe salvage something from this episode. As i said b4 it is a total shame to just throw the pervious years efforts into the bin. Just because you dont succeed in your efforts doesnt mean what u attempted was totally useless. I'll try get my hands on the dyno readings to post up. i emphasise the TRY bit. I'll also try to get wat info he can give with regard to was was done to the car. But TBH i don't see myself getting much here as he pretty much left that part to the people doing the work, which was an independant company.

TBH i would like to meet up with him in person again and maybe discuss putting out a 260 HP RX8 as Red Devil suggested. From what i know the people who did the tune were pistion heads. A good bunch thou, they did the tune on the EVO Fqs. But as i'm sure every1 here knows, just cos u r hot in tuning pistons doesn't mean u r anywhere near hot in tuning rotarys. I would like to point him towards some of the more established rotary tuning houses in the UK. Who knows, they could maybe spot some solutions the previous tuners missed.

I'm not a car tuner by any means but i would like to think that the issues the car has can be sorted out by a bunch of guys with a good background in rotary engine tuning. Ok maybe not hitting that 300 mark he was aiming for but, as just mentioned, 260. Getting an out of the box NA 260 RX8 from your local dealership and warenty honored by them. That ain't half bad is it? I know its an option i would have liked 2 have been offered when i got my 8. Thou if i could have afforded it would have been another point altogether.