Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2499608)

Do you believe MNzda would recommend an engine oil that would adversely affect the longevity of the Renesis, its technological pride and joy, knowing full well that the world would be watching the reliability of this "last chance" rotary engine under a microscope? And if, for arguments sake, in 2004 Mazda did recommend an oil that proved to be unsuitable for the Renesis, do you believe they would then continue to recommend it in model years 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008, knowing it could lead to the demise of the RX-8, let alone the rotary-engined car?

Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2499608)

I have no idea what the engine replacement rate is for other 5-yr old models.

I've never made that assumption. As I've said before, my hypothesis is that engine replacement is correlated to one or more of the following factors:

• New to the market '04 models suffering from first-year-of-production teething problems (i.e. ECU poorly calibrated for US driving conditions)
• AT cars with just one oil cooler
• Owner neglect or misuse: i.e. not following Mazda's oil recommendation, modding the car, racing, wrong grade of fuel, not checking oil level frequently, not revving the engine regularly, premixing

Again, I don't assume these are causes; it's merely a hypothesis. Thus, I also suspect that few '05 and later MT cars, not modded, not raced, properly maintained, following Mazda's oil recommendations, not premixed—and revved/redlined regularly—will require engine replacement.

I do believe the Renesis has a narrower margin of (owner) error than ordinary engines. And I believe Mazda's changes for the '09 and beyond will reduce this margin of error.

No, I don't. In fact, I'd like to believe that 5W-30 is every bit as good as 5W-20—albeit at a small cost in fuel economy (and possibly effectiveness at critical start-up). Oil technology continues to evolve; today "full protection" and "better mileage" are not mutually exclusive. I wouldn't be surprised if, in time, the "rest of the world" comes around and moves to 5W-20—not just for the RX-8, but many cars. You read it here first.

Do you believe Mazda would recommend an engine oil that would adversely affect the longevity of the Renesis, its technological pride and joy, knowing full well that the world would be watching the reliability of this "last chance" rotary engine under a microscope? And if, for arguments sake, in 2004 Mazda did recommend an oil that proved to be unsuitable for the Renesis, do you believe they would then continue to recommend it in model years 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008, knowing it could lead to the demise of the RX-8, let alone the rotary-engined car?

Originally Posted by jeremyB (Post 2498270)

...it should not be necessary to pre-mix at all -- you have a sophisticated metering pump on the engine that injects a precise amount of oil into the engine.

Originally Posted by dmc27 (Post 2499264)

I agree, but as Nubo and a few others have mentioned there seems to be a land of limbo where owners get stuck between a dealership that decides the warranty won't be honored and MNAO saying "what the dealer says goes."

"- dealers: as you all know, every dealership is an independent business, neither owned nor operated by us. as such, they all run slightly differently. you are not obligated to return to the dealer from whom you purchased your car for service, nor are you required to service your car at a Mazda dealer. You are, however, required to maintain proof of maintenance of the car (per the maintenance schedule) if you wish to receive warranty service. I'm sure you can understand this..."

This response seems to imply (in my opinion) that Mazda knows there are dealerships that aren't top notch. I don't believe it reflects well on Mazda when customers get caught in said land of limbo, especially if I inferred correctly that Mazda knows some dealers stink. If that's the case I think MNAO should be advocating for their owners, rather than accepting the decision of the dealerships w/o any real attempt at diagnosing the problem on their own.

I would like to see the "warranty denied" issue discussed in more concrete terms, if you could please Jeremy. And perhaps some discussion about the state of a warranty system that allows "an independent business" the power to void a Mazda warranty.

I do love my 8, and have been trouble free for 40k, with the only issue being the taillight condensation that was fixed under warranty. But even with this minor issue the dealership I used jerked me around a bit by telling me I had to come back when "the tech who takes pictures was working", then following that BS up by NOT taking any pictures when I came back another day. I understand that Mazda can't be expected to police the large number of dealerships across the country, but I think it's fair to expect MNAO to side with an owner unless a dealership shows some proof of why a warranty should be voided, rather than just claiming some aftermarket part, "abuse", or other factor caused the problem w/o any real diagnostic evidence, which seems to be the case more often than not.

Originally Posted by jeremyB (Post 2498270)

It should not be necessary to pre-mix at all -- you have a sophisticated metering pump on the engine that injects a precise amount of oil into the engine.

Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2499983)

Thank you, Jeremy, for finally setting the record straight on pre-mixing. It was long a subject of great debate, generating one of the longest threads here; a thread that continues to this very day. (Oops… did I say "debate"? It was never a debate. Unless you consider "Idemitsu vs. Marvel Mystery Oil" or "4-oz vs. 6-oz." a debate. If there were 1,000 posts, maybe 9 of them questioned the need to pre-mix.)

Jeremy, you do realize that, had you endorsed pre-mixing, many here would be quoting your words as confirmation of the usefulness of their quaint pre-fueling ritual. Of course, now that you've said pre-mixing isn't necessary, those same people will point to your words as proof that you're not allowed to tell the truth about pre-mixing. And so goes logic in the bizarro world of RX8Club.com.

Thankfully, it's a moot point; only a tiny handful of RX-8 owners will ever premix or, for that matter, even hear the word "premix" uttered in their lifetime.


(Sorry guys, couldn't resist. Is pre-mixing helpful? Maybe it is. Then again, maybe it isn't. ;))

Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2500175)

I guess, until someone actually sits down and talks—off the record—with the Mazda designers/engineers who work on the rotary, we won't have definitive answers about 5W-20 vs 30, synthetic oil, and pre-mix.

Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2500175)

I'd also like to know actually what percentage of Renesis engines have been replaced.

Originally Posted by ODDDOOD (Post 2501297)

It would have been awesome if JeremyB just posted a reply that said...



I would probably still be laughing. I look forward to hearing/reading more replys by him in the future. I do not look forward to dealing with MAZDA about soon to be transmission prolems.

Originally Posted by New Yorker (Post 2499983)

Thank you, Jeremy, for finally setting the record straight on pre-mixing. It was long a subject of great debate, generating one of the longest threads here; a thread that continues to this very day. (Oops… did I say "debate"? It was never a debate. Unless you consider "Idemitsu vs. Marvel Mystery Oil" or "4-oz vs. 6-oz." a debate. If there were 1,000 posts, maybe 9 of them questioned the need to pre-mix.)

Jeremy, you do realize that, had you endorsed pre-mixing, many here would be quoting your words as confirmation of the usefulness of their quaint pre-fueling ritual. Of course, now that you've said pre-mixing isn't necessary, those same people will point to your words as proof that you're not allowed to tell the truth about pre-mixing. And so goes logic in the bizarro world of RX8Club.com.

Thankfully, it's a moot point; only a tiny handful of RX-8 owners will ever premix or, for that matter, even hear the word "premix" uttered in their lifetime.


(Sorry guys, couldn't resist. Is pre-mixing helpful? Maybe it is. Then again, maybe it isn't. ;))

Originally Posted by Footman (Post 2499842)

1) Why are North American models recommending 5W20 and the rest of the world recommending 5W30 when the exact same engine is used?

a) Are there different oil seals being used for North American engines vs. the rest of the world?
b) The Renesis engine by design can use EITHER 5W20 or 5W30 with negligible failure rates, and the decision to recommend 5W20 in North American is strictly to meet CAFE requirements?

Originally Posted by RotoRocket (Post 2502609)

This is the one question, of all, that I'd most like a direct answer to, if Mr. Barnes would be so inclined to indulge us.

The answers on pre-mixing (not necessary) and using synthetic oil (not approved) were directly and succinctly answered.

Originally Posted by xsnipersgox (Post 2502705)

i don't think the us manual has anything other than 5w-20 across all temperature recommended.

and i wonder if he even is gonna come back.. he has only posted once

Originally Posted by xsnipersgox (Post 2502705)

i don't think the us manual has anything other than 5w-20 across all temperature recommended.

and i wonder if he even is gonna come back.. he has only posted once