PoorCollegeKid

Briefly: a company called Racing Beat pulled the Renesis out of an RX8 and put it on an engine dyno after several dynos found suspiciously low rwhp numbers (170-180rwhp), especially considering that the '8 has a lightweight drivetrain. They found that their Renesis had 215hp, or just within the 10% hp deviation between claimed hp and actual hp legally allowed, interestingly enough. While it's possible that they may have had an unusually weak Renesis or didn't set it up right, the fact that this 215hp claim fits the 170-180rwhp results very well because it allows for a standard 15%-20% drivetrain loss leads many people to believe that the true output of the Renesis is closer to this number than the one claimed by Mazda. This also explains why the RX8 traps fairly close to an RSX-S in the 1/4 mile and is why most drivers are struggling to get it out of the 15s, just as the RSX-S drivers do. In comparison, the 240hp, 2800lb S2000 is a solid low to mid 14 sec car, even the early models that seem to have an actual 240hp instead of a bit more. If you want to learn more, do a search as there have been several threads on this.

Before you let any of this worry you, go drive an RX8. Most people say that, regardless of its output on paper, the car has plenty of power. It may not smoke your neighbor's Accord V6 or Altima V6 in a straight line, but the '8 is such a well balanced and wonderfully responsive car that it doesn't need overwhelming amounts of power to be a fun and rewarding car. If you really like the car after a test drive then you should just go for it, chances are you won't be disappointed. Good luck with your decision

AQA101

Have you ever seen a 1000+ hp turboshaft engine? It's not not much bigger than the RX-8 machine. The point of the rotary is that it has three revolving ignition cycles running, it can burn a lot of fuel in a small amount of time (turbo engines burn fuel continuously and are therefore even far more powerful compared to their size). Technically, the rotary is somewhere between a piston and a turbo engine and it also behaves like that.

truemagellen

what a great thread, more people recognizing how unique our car is

Mikelikes2drive

rx8wannahave... i dont think ull find an rx8 for 24000 out the door.... maybe an automatic but not a manual.... and s2k is a great car sexy and powerful not to be mean or nething but the s2k out performs our car in all ways stock vs stock...

StewC625

Ike:

Sorry I've gotten all cantankerous on you. I see that you're a car guy through and through and that you like the -8 as well as a lot of other cars.

Just don't try to make me dislike my car (you won't and like a dog that you're trying to steal a bone from, I will snap and bite), and I won't knock your WRX.

And yes, I LOVE a Chevy small block, especially one that's been balanced, blueprinted and is good for 9000 RPM.

Stew

Ike

I didn't realize we were talking about used cars, used I don't think he'll have a problem finding an MT for 24k, especially since he's not buying til spring.
I agree the S2K is very sexy and one hell of a performer, but if you need a backseat then it's out of the picture.


FYI RX8wannahave, there is no such thing as a 2003 STi here in the US, the first MY was 04. You would might have a tough time finding an STi in your price range but an Evo would be little problem. Though I think I'd feel more comfortable buying an RX-8 used than either of those cars. People don't buy Evos and STis to treat them nicely...

Lastly, Poorcollegekid summed the power thing up pretty well. It's not fast enough for me but if it's fast enough for you that's all that matters. Don't let the HP number sway you away even though I think it's important to know you may not be getting all 238hp before you buy. Oh and yes the SRT-4 is incredible bang for the buck, but my car will have 300whp once my warranty is up whther that be with my WRX or an Evo/STi that I trade it in on. Have you even been in a FWD car with 300WHP? It's not a whole lot of fun and that huge factor takes the SRT-4 out of the running for me as it does you. So in the end I see the Evo and WRX/STi as better bang for the buck.

Ike

No worries man, I'm really not trying to make you not like your car nor putting it down. Just stating my honest opinions on it, I'd do the same with my car but no one would really care on an RX-8 forum. If you ever want to hear what I don't like about my WRX feel free to ask :D

truemagellen

24k for an 04 manual, no problem...you can probably get better then that nowadays

scottmhr1

The 8 takes a while to learn how to drive. Yes, power off the line is a bit weak, but once going it is great. My other car is a dodge stratus RT(same as mitsubishi eclipes rated at 200 hp) once off the line the 8 tears it to shreds. just have to know how to drive it.

rx8wannahave

Oh no…don’t…why did you just kick me in the….OUCH!

Tell me this, has Mazda made any statements regarding this find? Has anyone reproduced Racing Beat’s results? Also, why are people having trouble doing the 14.5 ¼ mile…Motor Trend did it? I know they have test drivers…but they don’t KILL the car to get good times. I heard of a guy in one of the post (Pollock guy) who said he was able…on his first try (after 3 runs) to get 14.5 so I don’t know if I trust the people who can’t get it. But, you have made me think…


I have, LOVED IT, but I did not get to push it so I could not comment on it’s power.

Thanks for the help!

I’ve been doing EXTENSIVE research and while I might have to go out of state, I’m sure I’ll find one for that price. Heck, I’ve seen them go (poor guy who sold it...he got killed) the 8 go for $20,000

OH...LOL

I know…yet another reason why they are off the list…

Performance per dollar, yes I agree…but when you add looks…I’d rather have a 8.

To ALL:

You know guys/gals…for every HIGH I get in the site…I get LOWS too…

From engine/port seals problems to false HP numbers and HORRID fuel economy…make it stop.

I love the 8’s style, interior, 2 extra doors, good rear seating, and handeling. It’s fun to drive MORE SO than almost all cars out there…from what I hear. I’m impressed with the rotary but if that HP rateing is true that would mean that MAZDA REALLY lied to us. Don’t make an excuse…from 247 to possibly 215 is outright disrespectful for everyone that loves cars. So, how do I trust Mazda with my money? How do I trust the 8 will not be a problematic car for me? How do I trust it will last me the 7-10 I plan?

As much as I love the 8…I can’t WASTE 24,000 on a car that won’t love me back. Don’t worry too much…Ill recover and remember the first thing I wrote in this post…but for now, I’m bummed out.

Yay 8…”crying like a baby right now”…LOL

BIMMER5&RX8

What can I tell you.? Size is not everything.

rx8wannahave

I minimized my IE...and saw my desktop wallpaper...I'll trust in the 8 and see how it loves me back. This will either be my first RX to grow into a love affair...or the last one I try. I'll have more faith...I'll give it a REV

Ike

Polak is the only slip that I've seen that comes close to the mag times (Ito never posted a slip). He may have a bit of a factory freak, conditions may have been optimal, he nailed it just right on the drive, or all of the above. Maybe every other person that has taken it to the strip can't drive worth a damn but I find that pretty hard to believe. Keep in mind most (not all) of the mag times were done on preproduction cars before the ECU was changed to meet emisions standards.

I've been flamed for bringing this up many times before which is kind of why I didn't want to talk about the HP thing. It's something that I was very vocal about after my testdrive of the car when it was rated at 247hp and for some time after that even once the car was rated at 238hp. But since then it's been beaten to death by me and others. My hypothesis on the matter and why Mazda "lied" a second time about the HP. The car was presold with 250hp to some early buyers and legally you can have a 5% difference in advertised and actual HP before a consumer is able to take legal action. So if you consider the original 250hp mark then consider what the % difference between that and 238hp is, then take 237hp and do the math and to me it seems pretty clear why the car was rated at 238hp. Also take into consideration if you put out a car with advertised 247hp then lower it to 215-225hp a lot of people are going to take notice and you will have a lot of pissed off car owners, legal action and a lot of attention from the automotive press is a sure thing. With only a lose of 9hp it got blurbs in many publications and a lot of car people know about it, but overall Mazda has flown under the radar with the whole thing (so far), and has also tried to do some damage control by stating it can't be dynoed properly. The trap speeds say it doesn't make 238hp, the dynos say it doesn't make 238hp, my butt dyno said it doesn't make 238hp, and about the only indicator that says it makes 238hp is the window sticker. That being said I now await the flames, go easy on me I'm just a poor little troll. :D

StewC625

Well that's it, I'm calling my lawyer! Thanks Ike, all the evidence I need ...

Sorry, I just don't get excited over the numbers. MY "butt-o-meter" just smiles every time I flatten the gas pedal with my right foot. A vertical smile of course ...

Ike

That's all that really matters. It's a little lacking for me so I didn't buy it, this wasn't based on numbers but purely feel. If you bought it and all the sudden it's not fast enough for you then you just shouldn't have bought it...

StewC625

For me, it's all about the fun to drive factor. I'm a dad. I tool around taking my kids to school and soccer and driving it to the airport where it sits for 3 days at a rip in valet parking (which is where it is now ... in NYC this week). I just love the way it drives.

350black

Not all auto companies do this because they still like their cars to produce torque.

truemagellen

Not all auto companies build ugly cars that can't take a turn well, they like their cars to beat or tie other cars in the twistys where it matters anyways since last time I drove it wasn't in a straight line and I don't use steroids

please don't bring us back into the 350z=small you know what

debate

rx8wannahave

Come close? He nailed it…he got the 14.5 Motor Trend got. Is he a heck of a driver, does he have a perfect RX8, those are debatable but since he did it I believe it can be done. He mentioned in his post that he tried different things but when he ran the rev’s to 8000RPM (correct me if I’m wrong) is when he got the 14.5.

I read online (and I”ll try to find it…if I remember) that the 8 only can get those 14.5’s if you rev it to 8000RPM before you take off. They stated that anything under that RPM saw SIGNIFICANT drops in times. So, this might be the answer to the numbers thing.

I think that revving it to 8000RPM to get those times is not what I would prefer but the 8 is not like other cars and if that’s they way you run them for best 0-60 or ¼ mile…then, that’s the way. Is that ideal, not at all, but that the car can get them…I think it can.

We really need RX8 people (I’m not one yet) to take their cars to the track and test them to put this thing to rest. If the 8 can get those numbers than I’m not disappointed at all. I’m not just about numbers…as I’ve stated, but I wanted a car that could do the ¼ under 15sec.

SO, GO TEST YOUR 8’s PEOPLE…do it for me…LOL


.

Me too…but I wonder if they really know their cars yet? How many have owned a rotary before and understand how to get the most out of them? I don’t say that to insult since I never owned (but I really wanted a RX7 back in the day) a rotary engine car so I know I would have a lot of learning to do.

Well, I don’t know about that because Motor Trend’s came with 238HP and it achieved those numbers. The test was actually done pretty recent in 2004 so I’ll stick to what they got. Can there be variations in HP, sure, but every car built is a little different than the next. Ford actually got in trouble back in the day with the Cobra…remember, for not making the HP they should have. (Kudos to FORD, they offered a fix and MADE it reach those numbers) It surprises me that Mazda would not have a tweak to the ECU or some minor changes to make sure their 8’s got the listed 247HP.

Ike, I actually thank you for bringing it up. I need honest answers about the 8 not false claims because the people who own them or Mazda say so. I know we can be a little partial with the cars we love so I appreciate your comments.

Saying that, I wonder if you have given in to the rumors out there. I know you test drove it and I know it’s not very quick of the line but maybe your just use to the drug that is TORQUE and you are just unwilling to settle for anything under 200ft. I love torque also and I”ll miss it if I get the 8, but after the warranty is over I’ll pull out more power out of that little sucker.

Me too, I drove it and I could not push it but I really loved being in the car (not people looking at me because I could care less) and just enjoying the drive. If I loved it that much without pushing it…I think the love can only grow from there.

But, Ike has brought up some things I will have to think about. I wish there was a RX8 owner near me that I could take a spin with. I don’t want to even drive it (for liability reasons) I would just like them to give me a 0-60 & ¼ miles test just to see what it feels like in the 8. Heck, you don’t even have to do that…just push it a little to see the kick you get in it. Any offers? I’m in Orlando, FL…

StewC625

You want real fun? Forget about 0-60 or a drag strip. That's for knuckle-dragging Mustang drivers. If you want to experience "THE REAL" RX-8, go for a drive in one on a road or autocross course - especially a road racing course. I've autocrossed my -8 once on a set of borrowed racing wheels/tires and OH MY GOD what fun.

can't wait to buy my own and do this all next summer.

Ike

I've driven on all sorts of tracks in all types of vehicles, but drag racing is still a lot of fun. No drag racing shouldn't be an important factor for those looking to purchase an RX-8 but at the same time it shouldn't be discounted as only for muscleheads. Getting a nice rush of acceleration when you mash the gas pedal can be just as fulfilling as hitting an apex just right.

Perth11

All the more important for Mazda to:

a. be honest with us

b. supercharge for more hp and torque

Thanks.

StewC625

More HP and torque wouldn't improve the ontrack experience in my book

rx8wannahave

LOL…oh my…LOL “knuckel-dragging.”…LOL

With that laugh, I have to say that I believe that a TRUE sports car is an all around good performer. Not just 0-60 or ¼ mile but handling, breaking, slalom. G’s etc. It takes skill to drive a dragster without killing yourself but I think it takes A LOT more skill to race a car in a course . Why, because you just don’t smash the pedal and hold on for dear life but have to be one with the car like if it’s an extension of yourself.

When to accelerate? When to break? How much breaking is needed at the time? How do I hit that next turn for maximum speed? How fast should I be going on that turn up ahead? If I mess up how do I recover the car safely?

I’m greedy so I don’t want one without the other. I’ve seen the numbers on the 8 and they are impressive across the board. The RX8 is not the best in any one field but a solid performer in all of them. Again I say…14.5 ¼ are nothing to be ashamed about. (While that is now in questions also I believe it can hit those numbers.)

Also let’s not forget that derivability, fuel economy, fun to drive factor, reliability, safety, looks, interior space, and comfort are all important also…I think the 8 will reward me in those categories also. Like I said before, this will either be the beginning of a love affair with the RX or the first and last experience with it. I hope it’s the first one…

I don’t have much experience feeling too much acceleration but I agree. Everyone just has to love that feeling and the sound of a V8 is like music to my ears. The Renesis makes some sweet music too…new & different, but lovely nonetheless…

Ike, I don’t discount it one bit…it is important to me but I think the RX has enough performance in stock form…for now at least. I’ve owned a Nissan NX2000 & Ford Probe GT (Ford really punked out on the 2nd generation Probe, that car with a small V8 and RWD would have been GREAT)

The NX did like 16sec ¼ miles and the Probe GT did like 15.8 so I think a 14.5 car would be a natural and safe upgrade for me. I think I drive pretty well but I’d rather be humble driver and learn little by little than to get a car that does 12’s and wraps me around a tree. I saw SO many people in high school that did not know how to drive but owned Z28’s, LX 5.0’s, and a few Vettes and all they did to those cars was ruin them. Everyone wants to play boy racer but only about half of them can take a car to the edge and maintain in control.

(The Vette rich kid blew out his engine at least twice…dummy…if I was his dad I would have KILLED HIM)

So, the question for is…(Because I’ll love my 8 if I get one and I’ll treat it like a baby)

Can I get 14.5 in a ¼ mile?
Can I drive it and get 18/24 mpg?
Will it be reliable and love me back?

Answer this for me guys/gals…(for the fist two I think I can, but the last one is the only FINAL speed bump)

Sorry, I can’t agree there. More power might save you from a bad corner entry and the acceleration of more HP/Torque will cut your track times down.

Note: Keep in mind that I have never raced a car on a track (little go-karts only) so I might not know what I’m talking about. I’m not immune to error so that’s why I post here and love to hear from all of you.

VelociRedBeast

..... 1.3L.....Enough said.