WOW, this can't be real...can it?
 

Hello everyone,

OK, I trying to learn all I can about the Rotary engine and RX-8. I know it's a twin rotor engine but I pictured the rotors that spin in the Renesis engine much bigger than the ones in the pictures below:

No way that that is the actual size of the rotors...NO WAY, if it is....

I JUST BECAME A LOVER OF THE ROTORY ENGINE....NO WAY....

How can so much power come from such a small...small engine, I thought it was small...but not that small...NO WAY!!!

GOOD JOB MAZDA...wake up Detriot...invest in the Rotary!!!! No way...

that's them....

Thats just a practical joke, real rotors are the size of that guy. ;)

Detroit did invest in the Rotary, Chevrolet worked on rotary powered corvettes for a long time in the 70s, Mercedes had several fast rotary race cars that they experimented with as well.

You guys are lying...NO WAY....NO WAY.....

How can...I mean, it's so...but it makes 238HP...yet..it's...NO WAY....

Yep, 13b rotors are 10" across IIRC.

I mean...I never expected this! I never thought the rotors were so small. How the heck do they get 238HP out of that engine? My LORD...I was impressed with the 8 but now I'M BLOWN AWAY!!!!

Now I understand...now I see the light, now I know why you guys call this a modern engine while the piston engines are old tech. I have seen the light and I NOW KNOW, GOD WILLING, that the 8 is FOR ME!!!

What is wrong with the auto companies out there, THEY NEED TO INVEST in the rotary...they just have to. I am still in shock...NO WAY!!!!

NO WAY!!!

THE 8 IS[B] GREAT!!!!!

I'm still in shock...STILL speachless, but just as a reply to abbid...

I heard that Mazda was working on a 1.6L rotary that made 300HP...from the grapevine, not sure if it's true or not.

WOW!!! NO WAY!!!!!

WOW!!!!

Wow

This thread is hilarious. How big do you think a piston is? They aren't very large either lol.

The extra power will come from widening the rotors. The difference between the 12A and the 13B engines is that the Rotors are 10 mm wider on the 13B. Aside from the porting changes, this gives it the extra power. Mazda has experimented with the 15B, 1.5 Liter, with wider rotors. The expense of new tooling equipment would be too great. I can see Mazda adding another rotor to the Renesis and making a 20B (2.0 Liter). Although, I did hear a while back of a Mazda Rep saying something about larger displacement engines.....

YES...WOW!!! I can't say it enough...WOW!!!

WOW
WOW
WOW

I have seen pistons and one piston or two for that matter can not even come close to two rotors. A V8, while I love them so, just lost some of it's greatness because of what I have seen from the Renesis...NO WAY!!!

Well...they should have never given up!

Ahhh, more knowledge...MORE ROTARY INPUT....I'm loving the 8 MORE AND MORE!

rx8wannahave- i'm better now-and yes those are the rotors- you have to see the whole engine assembled to realize what a marvel the RENESIS engine is.

That's probably around the size the powerplant of the 4th gen RX-7 will have, since it's supposed to have basically a 1.6 liter version of the Renesis. Of course that's all rumors.

I always thought simply supersizing the 13b would be a good idea. The 13b isn't the most torquey (is that a word?) engine in the world. So just give it bigger rotors and give the eccentric shaft lobes that protrude more. Torque is just force multiplied by distance. So giving the eccentric shaft bigger lobes will increase the distance. And since the displacement will increase, the force that acts on the eccentric shaft will also be greater. So you get more torque (which also results in more HP, BTW).

I'm glad your doing better, hay...life is tempoary take it slow (cept in your 8)! I do, I want to see the engine myself...in person. I need to find more pictures of the engine and send a letter to Mazda. I mean...MY GOD...this has shown me the light! WOW!


It's probably not that simple, but I agree...I just wish there were more companies working on the Rotary. Thanks for the information...I want more...WOW!

I think Mazda needs to go all the way and make it a 2.0L 2 rotor, the 20B doesn't even make all that much HP naturally aspirated. 300BHP with room for increases in HP with tuning. 2.0L peripheral exhaust port 2 rotor turbo, now we talking power :)

I really wish they would saction rotory engine's use in racing, if they allowed that, there would be far greater developments on the engine than we do today.

Eh? Speedsource RX-8s? Formula Mazda? ITA? ITS? GTU? Le Mans?

The rotary has a huge racing history and is currently actively racing with the new renesis in a few different types of racing.

What was that really old Ford 'race car' back in the 'teens? It had a 4-banger in it...but each piston was about 10" or more in diameter - huge!

This little RX-8 rotary is only 1.3L...that is why it always amazed me that people compare it to a 350Z or whatever. The engine is pretty amazing.

The Corvette experiment back a couple of decades ago (?) was with putting a 4-rotor in a swoopy body...it would have been AWESOME!

Did someone add rotary motorcylces to the mix? Felix Wankel "inventor of rotary motor" shopped idea to many major manufacturers....however Mazda was first to put into mass produced vehicle and make tangible for eveyday use. Someone give rx8wannahave his meds. :D

P.S. the corvair was originally designed wih a rotary engine but due to extended testing and reliability issues was scrapped for conventional pushrod motor..efficiency has alot to do with power output, despite ts smaller size it is highly efficient in burning air and fuel intrroduced into combustion chamber...many compare the rotary to a six cylinder engine due to each rotor firing three times per rotation

If you've ever seen a stripped down rotary engine before (with the alternator, intake and exhaust manifolds, etc. off of it) so it's just a bare block, you'll be blown away. They are freaking TINY - your 17 inch CRT computer monitor occupies much more space, and weighs damn near as much.

If memory serves, a naked 13B engine is about 18 inches tall by 14 inches wide by 16 inches deep - about the size of a small microwave oven.

Yes, the rotors are tiny. I have a rotary engine clock on my desk - completely cool! Here's the link to buying one:

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/cu...cat=560&page=1


And, here's the photo of it (not from my desk). The clock in the center gearset of the rotor is about 3 1/2 inches in diameter.

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/images/demo.jpg

wow

Yes, Meds please...cause my jaw is still on the ground!

I have to admit, I really liked the 8 based on it's looks, interior, and performance but was worried about the Rotary engine. I knew only a little about it and did not like it's lack of torque..but...

After looking at what that little engine can do...I'm WOWed! I can't belive that the rotors are that small...I just cant! I wish I could find an old rotory I could take apart and gawk at.

WOW, people...have you ever sat down and thought about that engine of yours...WOW!

Nice, only $45 bucks huh...you guys/gals are making me into a ROTARY HEAD! I can't wait, GOD WILLING, I can't wait for my turn to love an 8.

Those sweet tiny rotors...WOW!

The correct term is "Rotor Head"
:)

Ahh...thank you...

I like "Rotor Nut"

I fixed it for you :D

Seriously man, the rotary is cool but you've gone a bit overboard, have you ever seen the size of a piston? Plus there's a reason every other manufacturer dumped the rotary...

Hay, I'm not IGNANT about engines...I've seen pistons and they are about the same size give or take...

BUT, two ROTORS outperform 2 pistons (as if there was a two piston engine) any day of the week...

HANDS DOWN!

They dumped the Rotary because they punked out...the did not want to start over with a new engine and instead gave in to the tried and true...PISTON engine, no more...no less

When you can get the same HP out of a light weight 4 cylinder engine (that's in actuality a smaller displacement) and get much better gas mileage, along with a proven design with great reliability why bother with the rotary? The rotary is a neat design, unique, but it will always have its drawbacks. I understand why Mazda keeps on with it, but at the same time I don't see any reason for other car manufacturers to use it. If it was such a superior design Mazda would have it in more than one of their cars...

And the same reason goes why the rest of the world doesn't use that blatting flat-opposed engine in anthing but Subaru, Porsches and Lycoming airplane engines. Sounds like crap but the packaging is handy.

Ike, why do you hang around here anyway?

This car (a mazda no less) has two pistons...

Probably not much by the way of HP though...

http://www.stephenchiang.com/ss7/images/SS7P4761.jpg

Kudos to Stephen Chiang for excellent pics of SS7

Mazda basically put everything it had into its rotary program. Mazdas rotaries are what they depended on throughout the late 60's early 70's to put them on the map. Anyone know of anything remotely memorable before the 1967 cosmo? EXACTLY. Mazda has done more R&D on rotary engines than any other manufacturer, and in turn has patented and copyrighted most of their advancements. That's why Mazda is the only company to still develop rotaries. It's their claim to fame.

Piston engines aren't bad, and neither are rotaries. Two different ways to get the job done. Each have their strong points and drawbacks. END OF STORY.

I hang around here because I like it here and I want to. Now point out one thing that I said that isn't correct, rather than making some stupid off topic remarks about the boxer engine.

Well you've never said anything incorrect, but alot of your opinions are very subjective, and really aren't appreciated on a forum about a car we all have come to enjoy. If you don't like the car fine, that's your perrogative, but there are alot of people here who do like the car regardless of some of the subjective points you tend to argue at times.

I do like the car quite a bit, and always have. Which I've said repeatedly, but just because I don't own it and do critisize some aspects about it everyone jumps to conclusions. Many of my opinions are appreciated by RX-8 owners, whether you want to accept that or not I don't really care.

Hey, I'm cool with it, and you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy. I'm just arguing as devil's advocate here. In all honesty, I think the 8 is far from perfect as well, but I still bought it. To each his own, we all have different cars for different tastes. That's what makes it so great. Otherwise we'd all have the same car.

I personally enjoy reading IkeWRX's posts quite a bit. Most if not all of his posts have been made concisely and to the point, and I don't see why people label him as a troll. I like that he brings a bit of objective reality to the table, as much as I love my RX-8, I'm quite aware of the fact that it's a first year car, and the rotary is definitely a niche item that's got a few annoying quirks. Reading Ike's posts keeps my feet planted on the ground in a forum where most people are obviously going to have their heads in the clouds about their RX-8s.

If you wont to know about the Rotary engine check it out -> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine.htm

Psssst, read his avatar title! :rolleyes:

Are you claiming that the average NA four-banger provides better specific power than the Renesis?

Mileage, yeah, fair point - it's to do with the shape of the flame front in the weird-ass shape chamber during combustion (which is also why we need two spark plugs)

All engines have drawbacks. Crank balance, for instance, in a boxer, to pick an example at random. ;) The question is always whether the benefits outweigh the downsides...


Yeah, that is odd, I agree... I've posted on that elsewhere. When Mazda release an Elise-alike with a rotary, I'll be buying one.

You won't see one in a non-sports-car guise because Joe Q Public buys torque, not power, and can't use gearboxes properly. Sad but true. I'm surprised they even bothered with the auto 8, US market or no US market...

I thought I would be downshifting allott do to low torgue but I find that the torgue although on the low side it doesn't have much of a peak and is relatively consistent from 3,000 rpm's through 9,000 rpm's. I go up the mountain on my way to work and shift into 5th gear, still able to accelerate. The feel of the rotary engine is unique. Feels like an electric motor unlike a piston engine. I love it!

IkeWRX,

First I want to make sure that you understand that I love AMERICAN V8’s. The Chevy V8 is in my opinion, the BEST DANG V8 on EARTH…hands down! Why, well…like I’ve said before (Note: I’ll be sending you a private message later with an advertisement about the great Chevy V8) the Vette’s engine (400HP 6.0L 400 feet of torque of V8 muscle) gets 18/28 and that’s just AMAZING! Who can argue this point…no one!

Note: Keep in mind that I always go for the bang for the buck so I’m not blindly loyal to any car company, I always go for the best car for the price.

I really wanted to get a 2+2 RWD V8 car but Dodge, Chevy, and Ford let me down. Chevy killed, like the PUNKS they use to be (they will get better now that Bob Lutz took over), the Camaro & Firebird. While I can get a 2003 SS the back seat are just not realistic for me. Dodge has nothing out there other than the Crossfire but it’s too pricey and is not a 2+2.

Then there was FORD. The Mustang was not too bad but I describe it like I did Madona, sometimes it looks good and other times it looks so bad. Furthermore, I’ve grown tired of it’s too boxy style, it’s just so non sports car like. It’s as if under certain (remember the Seinfield episode) lighting conditions the Mustang looks good or bad. I was real happy that they were going to update the Mustang in 2005 then the poo hit the fan. While I like some of the 05 Mustang I have the following issues with it:

PRICE (DANG IT, pony cars are supposed to be for the common Joe…and I’ll bet these dealers are going to try and sell it for $30,000)
INTERIOR STYLE (I like retro a bit, but I did not want a resurrected mustang interior…new interiors are so much better)
REAR END (After the wheel the butt just keeps going and going like the energizer bunny, wheels should be located at the corners of the car)
REAR TAIL (It’s almost like they forgot to put in one and stuck that CHEAP and old styled tail on it, come on it’s 2005)
FRONT LIGHTS (Blah blah blah wake me up when there is some excitement found in the front lights)
SIDE OF CAR (The bottom edge spoiler if you can call it that looks out of place and dated)
HANDELING (Seems that it will do about 84g…that is just pathetic for a sports car)

Yes, I understand it’s a retro look…but they should have made the car a modern interpretation of the old Stang instead of…as if they went back in time and asked the old engineers what they thought a 2005 Stang would look like. We will see, but I think they put their foot in it.

That said, I think it has great potential to be styled to look really tough. I think the V8 in it is sweet and gets decent fuel economy. I think it’s a huge step forward engineering wise for the car (regarding quality and the new rear axle). Finally, I would have tried it out even though I love the RX8 but the price put the nail in the coffin.

I know this is a little off topic (maybe a lot) but you need to know that I love the American V8. BUT, all 3 companies let me down…THANK GOD for the RX8. It’s a 2+2, RWD, 2-4 door, great handling, fairly priced, car with good straight-line performance.

Note: Don’t tell me it does not have good straight-line performance because a RX8 can take the beloved 90’s Mustang LX 5.0 in 0-60 & ¼ Mile (I know a little about cars you know…90’s LX 14.8 ¼ “stock” and a 04 RX8 14.5 ¼ “stock”)

I gave the American car companies a chance…and they simply…let me down. Oh yeah, FYI, FORD owns a huge stake (controlling stake if I remember correctly) in Mazda so bashing a Mazda is bashing FORD and vise versa.

Back to topic, I’m still amazed that two little rotors like that can make 238HP (247 in Japan) without turbo, NOS, or a supercharger. I know it’s not really fuel efficient considering the size of the engine (I think it should get like 24/33 based on it’s size) but again…be fair, 238HP out of that little thing is as amazing as 28mpg Highway for a 400HP V8.

Think about it…be fair…it’s OK to be WOWed, THE 8 IS GREAT!




sferrett ,

I knew someone would find one…LOL


PS. Oh yeah, that's what I thought when I test drove the 8...it dose feel like an electric engine...so so smoooooooth

I baptize you with motor oil, and declare you a follower of Felix Wankel. By the way, the rotory engine is 80 yrs old this year.

LOL...Yeah, I know it was pretty old...but I think not enough effort has been put into the engine. LOL, baptize...LOL

that looks abour right

I love the V8 as well espcially the LS series and Hemi.

If when you refer to bang for the buck you mean the most performance for your money then the RX-8 is probably not the best choice for you and you should probably be looking more closely at the Evo or STi. But I get the feeling looks are very important to you and the RX-8 will still probably win out.

The straightline performance is decent, but this isn't 1990 and we're not comparing the RX-8 to a stripped down LX. If you're just after speed there are many many cars out there to consider. If you jst want to stick with cars around 30k that are a pretty good overall package the RX-8 is the least impressive when it comes to a straight line but are still fun as hell when it comes to driving.

I've known about the rotary since I was a little boy, and spent a considerable amount of time in an FB. I actually learned how to shift in that car long before I could legally drive. So maybe the wow factor of the rotary has worn off for me.
I think I am being fair, it's really not that amazing to me, if it were actually making 238hp (lets not get into that in this thread, do a search), got better mileage, and had a better rpoven reliability hostory I might be amazed. But right now I find the engine in the S2K far more remarkable, more HP (more than the claimed numbers would lead on), better efficiency, Honda reliability, less quirks like adding oil, and still high revving though not as much as it was. I'm also more impressed when people take their WRX/Evo to 300+ whp and use it as a daily driver and have 75k+ miles on it. That's important to me and I know I'll always want to make my car faster and handle better, as of right now and for the past year or so there just hasn't been much available for the RX-8 in the area of mods with respectable gains.

Yes the RX-8 is great, and it's a perfect fit for many of the people on this board and I can see why they would chose it over the other cars in its class. But the competition is stiff and there are a lot of other great choices out there that will fit someone elses needs better.

you wanna talk horsepower and size? take a look at the yamaha motogp motorcycle. it puts over 220 horses to the rear wheel. the engines are tiny with four little tiny pistons.

yamajj

Well, it’s agreed that the best bang for the buck is actually the SRT-4 ($20,000 get’s you a lot in that little sucker). BUT, it’s FWD, is suspect with quality, and it’s resale value is not that great. I really did not want another FWD car so that’s what took it out of contention. I looked at the tC also but with 160HP it was actually a little slower than my 94 Probe GT. If I gave up and got a tC I would have them install a (which is a factory option they don’t advertise) a supercharger on it.

Also, remember that I’m not getting a RX-8 new and my price range is actually $24,000 “OUT THE DOOR” which I plan on hitting it with about $5,000 to leave the car with about a $315-335 monthly payment (6 years @ 8% apr). With my job and the down I’m saving, I could not afford any car over $24,000. The 8 falls into this price range and would be a 2004 model which the other cars would have been older models…2003 or older.

So, for $24,000 a used RX-8 really does not have much compitition.


No, I understand…but I just did not want someone saying that 14.5 in the ¼ mile is slow…because it’s far from slow.

I’m an auto enthusiast so I take many factors into account. Not just speed, not just looks, not just price, not just brand, not just 0-60 or ¼ mile…I take the car in its complete form. I love cars and when I’m paying $300+ per month and plan to keep the car (per my agreement with GOD…LOL) for 7-10 years…trust me when I say that I have done my research. Look at some of my post’s…


Hmmm, what do you mean by that? As far as my understanding goes…listed HP and HP at the wheels are two different things. Every car made comes with a HP rating but the HP at the wheels is always less. So, are you saying that the 8 is making less than the listed 238HP…or at the wheels…not to start another long topic but I needed you to clear this up for me.

Well it’s a good engine, but you got to rev it like you hate it. (Per Motor Trend) Now, I know the 8 is very similar but per Motor Trend again they said it was very different to the S2000 and its derivability was better also. Furthermore 20/25 for a 4cly is not very impressive at all. Yes, it makes great HP and HONDA is a great if not the best car company for quality…but I think it’s blah blah blah…it’s style is nice…but not SEXY…LOL.

Also, I need a 2+2 so the S2000 is dead on the pavement.

Give it some time the car just came out in mid 2003 and it’s a rotary so people can’t just start making go fast parts for it. I have never had a car that was worth (as much as I loved my NX2000 & Probe GT) putting money into it to make it faster but I also care about making it better than standard out of the box. With time and after the warranty is over…I’ll bet that there will be a lot of stuff out there to make the 8 better.


Yeah, I’d bet…everyone has different needs and wants. I would not tell everyone to buy an 8, I would ask them what they wanted in a car and then work from their.

I want a 2+2 RWD car that handles like a sports car and gives me grins from ear to ear.

…and that car is (INSERT THE MAZDA RX8 “HERE”)

I wish American car companies did not let me down. I wish the 350Z (cause a Nissan was my first car and I loved it) was a 2+2. I wish Dodge made a new Cuda similar to the 8 with 2++ doors and and I wish Chevy brought back the beloved F-Cars…but none of this worked out for me…so, the 8 DID!

Note: Thanks for your thoughts...