BMW_2_ARGh(ex)Eight

I've been researching my next car and thus far I've eliminated the 350z and G35. I'm also about done with the Audi TT. So on to the RX-8...

The first thing I noticed is how CHEAP the used ones are, just from a basic scratch-the-surface check at Cars.com I see 2004 and some 2005 models in the 22K range, some with less then 10k miles.

How can this be when the cars go for 27-32k new? Seems like the depreciate way faster than anything else I've researched? Do they fall apart? Are the maintenance costs on the rotary engines through the roof?

I mean, 20k for a 2004 "sports" car with 230+ hp?? seems like a steal...

Ike

People were getting them new for 8k under MSRP because there was a surplus of them, so in light of that the resale seems to be poor. It's just not a car in high demand, but if you like the car take advantage of that and get the car at a great price.

skopiec

As a reference point, I just picked up a new '06 for 26K (Touring + options)

BMW_2_ARGh(ex)Eight

Hmmm, that explains a lot I suppose, perhaps the 8 is a hidden gem on my quest for a new ride. I'm used to the opposite... a BMW will base at 32, but by the time most people get done with options the cheapest 3 series is close to 40k, then a used one is around... 32k, the cost of a new base model.

Thanks for the post, I'm going to read threads now and avoid being a n00b until I have another stellar quesion.

CorranFox

It is because of all of the recalls... there have been at least 4 recalls with this car, some people get scared away and sell their cars because of this... others don't like the gas milage with gas prices going up (now coming back down) this caused a huge number of people to sell the car after finding out it wasn't for them. I got mine for 19,500 and have had no problems at all with it. I've had it for about a month and a half now and as long as you keep it maintained and take care of it, you should be fine. Any engine trouble is usually covered by your warentee and if you are having problems with the starter or anything it could be a recall that has not been performed. If you end up buying one used, the first thing you should do is take it to a mazda dealer and they can tell you if it is up to date on recalls.

There are many factors causing it to be cheap but I think the #1 thing were all the recalls, mazda offered a lot of incentives to buyers just because they were having a harder time selling due to recalls. A lot of these buyers for some reason turned right around and sold their car, I got mine at a local honda dealership where the guy traded it in for some honda to save gas money... its really too bad, but good for you if you want to buy one cause they are inexpensive.

The latest recall included an extention of the warrenty to 5 years 60,000 miles as well so if you find one under 40k you are in goooooood shape if it leaks oil you may even get your engine replaced for free by mazda that was the latest recall. You can read more about that elsewhere on the forum.

tiltmode43

iTrader: (15)

I kind of doubt the lack of popularity of the 8 is due to "at least 4 recalls" (technically there have been way more than 4 tsb's). The lack of popularity is moreso due to a less expeted buyers market that mazda somewhat flooded with cars. This combined with the rotary (scares some poeple away ) factor and the somewhat love it/hate it looks caused the 8 to sell poorly and thus have quick depreciation. I got my baby for cheap and I've loved every moment.

If you plan on modding your car though, don't go for the 8. The factory 8 was very well design and you will see modest gains from alost all n/a mods.

New Yorker

I have to disagree—I think the RX-8 wouldn't sell any better even without a single recall. (And there haven't been "a lot" of recalls. No more or less than lots of other cars which sell quite well. I suspect few prospective buyers walked away from an RX-8 because of its recalls—that just doesn't sound right. In fact, most people out there aren't even aware of the RX-8, let alone its recalls, which are NOT remarkable.)

In my opinion, the 8 has not been real popular because:
a) it's not on most people's radars. It's not heavily advertised or promoted. Many people don't even know it exists.

b) it's "different". It's the only car in the world with a rotary engine. Most people don't feel comfortable getting a car with an engine that's different from the kind used in every other car in the world. If they ask "why a rotary?" they're told its very "smooth," and that its small size/light weight mean better "feel and handling". These are very subtle advantages, lost on people who are not car enthusiasts. Hearing the words "smoothness, feel, and handling," most prospective buyers will **** their head to the side, scrunch up their face, and go "huh???" Then they'll ask what kind of mileage it gets. Mileage is not very good. And the rotary engine needs to be really revved to develop power. Most Americans don't like revving their engines very high—they think the engine will start to self-destruct. Finally, while some people in some places think of "different," generally, as something positive, in this country different = bad.

c) While the 8 offers the practicality of a sedan in a real, honest-to-goodness sports car, many see it the other way: not as practical as a sedan, not as hard core as a traditional sports car.

Recalls have nothing to do with it. Just my 2¢.

Razz1

Yep, they were overstocked for a year.

rodrigo67

Lets not sugar coat this, tell him all.

Mazda originally stated the car had 250 hp, but then revised it down to 238, then revised it once again to the current 232, but even that seems overly optimistic. Most agree that the car pulls somewhere between 215 and 220hp. People expected the car to compete with the Z, evo, sti, S2000, and others, but in straight line performance it comes in last of all it's competitors. So, it wasn't as fast as most expected, they just didn't get that mazda was going for something different, something else and not a hard core sports car. Demand went down.

There have been a number of recalls for this car. Most are small issues like batteries, brake pads, or moisture in the lights. the last one is a major issue which is not helping on the street. There is an engine recall with loss of power, stalling, or no starts. If the car doesn't pass a compression test, the entire engine gets replaced. Several here have had their engines replaced, and some of those who have had it replaced needed another one, and there is one poor guy here who is on his 4th engine. Others have over 100K and have had no issues. Mazda said they expect about 1% of engines to be replaced, but the starting pool of engines was 3000 units.

The latest recall was suppose to fix this issue along with a new flash, but I have already seen posts of cars that have had the new engines and flash having to need another engine. Mazda had to extend the warranty of the engine to 5/60K because of all bad publicity. I don't think Mazda actually has a fix for this issue, which has to do with carbon buildup breaking seals and clogging cats, I think they have resolved themselves to replace these engines under warranty no matter how many it takes, and there have been lots of them already. What happens when the warranty is over?

Of course, it leaked out right before the recall that mazda would not hold negative surveys against any dealer if the car owner owned an 8, which let the dealers off the hook for bad service, something Mazda finished dead last for ( with the exception of Isuzu).

Some cars are getting horrible milage, a few are getting 9mpg, while others are getting in the high teens and low 20's. Mazda has no explaination for this, other then it's the drivers. One owner, who was getting 10mpg, traded in an 04 for an 05 and is now getting 18mpg, with the same driving habits.

I personally have had little (dead battery replaced under warrenty) to no issues on my 8, which I've had for almost 3 years. It's an awesome car and one of the best handling cars I've ever owned, but I would be lying if I told you I was confident of it's future reliability. Alot of people just don't want to deal with the uncertainty of the car, so demand goes down and resale goes down.

If it sounds like I'm downing this car, I'm not, I love this thing, but it is the truth and you should know what everyone else on this forum already knows. It's an excellent car that does many different things better then any other car out there, at a price that competes with cars at a lower level then what the 8 competes on.

I would say, if it's a good price, I would go for it, but if your concerned about a die hard reliable car, this is probably not it....

Stavesacre21

rodrigo67
^


yea, i'd say he beat me to it, and pretty much says it all

mysql101

No, Ike had it right.

Mazda shipped too many of the car, and they had to push deep discounts to move them.

That in turn killed the aftermarket sales. They overestimated how many they could sell. I guess they thought it was another Miata.



Now they're shipping a reduced number of RX-8's, which is why they don't need to give deep discounts to move them anymore

I don't know if this will correct the aftermarket pricing - as it will take time for the excess to work it's way out and for the price to eventually correct itself.

BMW_2_ARGh(ex)Eight

The reason I crossed the 350z off of my to-buy list was because of the transmission problems, ie lots of drivers have been through multiple trannies for no reason other than poor engineering... it seems like the rx8 has the same issue, only its the engine, yikes!

Sure all cars have recalls, but lets be realistic... this is a pretty drastic one.

And if you think recalls dont affect sales, check the numbers for the Ford Explorers after the Firestone tire debacle! Ooops!

mysql101

BMW, if you read our threads more, you'd know the number of us with actual engine problems is quite low.

BMW_2_ARGh(ex)Eight

I know. I know. I'm a pessimist though, I have the attitude that I will be one of the 1% of people affected by this!

Theres actually an 0-6 at work that drives a blue 8 and everyone always talks about how nice it is, I'd love to pull up right next to his with my own!

mysql101

just buy a new one - that way you're assured it has the proper oil metering and you don't have to worry about engine problems

New Yorker

The engine in my Miata had to be replaced. Is the Miata unreliable too?

flomulgator

One thing that everyone forgets is that if you find yourself out of warranty with a blown engine, since it is 1.3L and has like two moving parts, it costs a fraction of what it would cost to replace the engine in any other sports car.

I would almost go as far as calling the Renesis engine.......disposable <gasp!>

many turbo and supercharger kits cost more than the engine!

CarAndDriver

Definitely would agree with the major points posted in this thread.

I am a lucky recipient of the poor resale value. I got my 2005 GT 6M with 11.5K miles for $19K from a desperate seller.

I don't really see any compelling reason to buy a new one unless one has to have a brand spanking new car considering what you can get in the preowned market.

Meeneevan

Basically the Rx-8 powerplant is an experimental engine. Compared to piston engine production the rotary is rare and has very little real world time and development. The RENESIS is an entirely new engine from Mazda and has little to no carry over from the 13B REW or the 13B or 12A. It has not seen a lot of real world time and Mazda is finding out along with the rest of us what things work well and what don't. The metering of oil (most recent recall) is a perfect example in that they now see that a change was necessary from the original computer settings to avoid potential catastrophic engine problems. We are now seeing this along with them and as the engies and cars see more real world time they will continue to be tweaked and get better and better. I personally feel very comfortable under my blanket of 50k miles and 5 years bumper to bumper protection. I wish my 2004 Honda Odyssey had that because at 45k miles I could surely use it but that's another story.My Shinka is a third, fun car that rarely sees rain much less snow etc. It is not nor was ever intended to be a daily driver and I like it that way because when I come back to it after a lay off I appreciate it that much more (especially since my 2 other drives are minivans!) If you like to take more of a risk for more of a reward then this may be for you, if you are conservative and can't take too much of a risk then you might look elsewhere

mysql101

I disagree. The Renesis is a great engine, they've done some serious testing on the engine. I think the metering problem just shows that they cut too close to the edge when tuning the car for emissions in the united states. It didn't damage most engines, but it was close enough that in some situations it might have injected too little oil.

Remember the recall isn't being performed elsewhere...

ken-x8

Exactly.

It wasn't on my radar at all most of the time I was car shopping. I wanted a sports car. When I did not fit in a Miata, did not like the Z4 at all, and didn't warm up to the 350Z or S2000 I went home and took a last desparate read through my "all cars" issue of Motor Trend. That's when I first became aware of it.

A couple of weeks later I owned one and had joined the cult here. Recalls, flooding, over or under supply had no bearing at all. Just a test drive.

Ken

CarAndDriver

In addition to reasons above, Mazda has not done a very good job of doing any significant performance enhancements or improvements to the car since it was introduced in 2004. The S2000 and 350Z have all had performance increases through their cycle. Significant changes are also noted by journalists and thus produce consumer interest and automakers tend to promote cars that have had positive changes.

It is hard to get excited about an automatic transmission change.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

First, this car is not a *average joe* car, it requires a little more *attention* than others, when I say *Special attention* its just that you have to add oil once in a LONG while .... Cuz its internal combusion engine.

Most sad losers out there doesnt even know what the fuxk is *Internal combusion* engine, all they know is the *V4/6/8/12* term. without even knowing excatly what does the V stand for.

Second thing is the price of this car, Its too *affordable*, while this is a good thing for consumers, but its a very bad thing for enthusant like us. reminds me of how FD got their bad name, 13B-REW was a great engine, but they got a bad name just because of all these kids with big pocket daddy to pay for the car, but doesnt know **** about it just slam whatever biggest turbo they can find without any addional cooling/lube/etc. of course their engine will give up the ghost in a short time then they blame *This engine sucks*

Now this is excatly what is going on right now, most of us of course knows how to take care of our baby, but sadly since its *very affordable* , some dumbass got their hands on it, and never took any proper care, of course the car gonna die, then they gonna blame the company for it. One of my friend's father got a Sienna, got it for a year with 30000 miles (its a business car), and they wonder why the CEL is ON !!!! what do you think ? They never had an oil change !!!! Of course the car is all fucked up, and it was so bad it required an engine replacement (they play dumb on it ... and Toyota replaced it for them, ahh)

What I would suggest is that, dont expect anything *super fast* out of the box, this is a car that the more you take care of it , the more you drive it, the more you'll love it.

LiveBlues

This goes back to some of the earlier posts, but...

When did TSB = Recall start?

As far as I'm concerned, there have only been two recalls. The heat shield/ball joint recall and the current emissions recall.

Did I miss something?

zenmoused

Just something to know, so you're not shocked- Mazda dealers are somewhat notorious for not being the best. I went from an Audi to my rx-8 and while I love the car, both of the dealers nearest to me have messed up pretty much every time I've brought it in. There seems to be a shortage of people who know how to work on this car. This was a big surprise, coming from having nothing but great experiences with bring my A4 in. I would definitely do some research on your nearest dealer before buying your 8, as you'll most likely end up knowing the service manager by name within a few months' time.