why is the rx-8 not that popular?
04-04-2008, 01:44 PM
#52
There are three main reasons for the poor sales of the RX-8.
1) Underpowered compared to it's competition. Americans want fast 0-60 times and the RX-8 is lacking here.
2) Poor fuel mileage. The problem pointed out in every review of the RX-8 is the poor fuel mileage.
3) The Rotary engine. The slight increase in maintenance is misunderstood and the engine failure problem is scaring away people, understandably so.
1) Underpowered compared to it's competition. Americans want fast 0-60 times and the RX-8 is lacking here.
2) Poor fuel mileage. The problem pointed out in every review of the RX-8 is the poor fuel mileage.
3) The Rotary engine. The slight increase in maintenance is misunderstood and the engine failure problem is scaring away people, understandably so.
04-04-2008, 04:33 PM
#53
An engine that runs with some loss of power and that is then replaced - instead of just repaired - because it fails a compression test is NOT THE SAME as "engine failure". "Engine failure" is a commonly used expression that to the vast majority of people conjures up images of an engine suddenly making a loud, explosive sound as it suddenly freezes, stops dead in its tracks, releasing a dramatic cloud of smoke and sparks, leaving its poor, unsuspecting owner stranded in the middle of nowhere.
If Mazda had elected to repair the engines that failed the compression test there wouldn't be any talk of "engine failure," so I find it ironic that in taking the extra step of replacing the engines Mazda opened the door to pinheads casually throwing around highly negative, frightening and emotionally-loaded terms like "engine failure". But, like with any good propoganda, if you repeat it often enough it will, in time, become fact. Here, let me help you: ENGINE FAILURE! ENGINE FAILURE! Oh god forbid we buy a car that'll have an engine failure!!!
Last edited by New Yorker; 04-05-2008 at 10:20 AM.
04-04-2008, 06:05 PM
#54
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No good reason for it!
Although there are rational explanations as to why the RX8 isn't a runaway smash hit, there are truly no good reasons for it. Sounds like double speak doesn't it?
Allow me to explain:
Most people are followers. It takes a lot of guts to try a new thing, to move outside the mainstream, and that's what you're doing when you buy an RX8. You're taking a chance on new technology (relatively) with the Wankel rotary. The RX8 is the ONLY production car on the planet to use a rotary engine. Some people are frighten (intimidated) by that fact. Others, the Mavericks, embrace it. It's not a question of which technology is better or worse at this or that, it's about risk taking. Many are unwilling to take the chance for fear that they will be scoffed at or ridiculed for this or that disadvantage. Many times they're right. Playing it safe is just that....well.....SAFE. However every once in a while the Maverick latches on to something great and is rewarded for taking that chance.
The "jury" is still out on the RX8 for the "play it safe" crowd, but for the Mavericks the RX8 is a "Diamond in the Ruff"
Allow me to explain:
Most people are followers. It takes a lot of guts to try a new thing, to move outside the mainstream, and that's what you're doing when you buy an RX8. You're taking a chance on new technology (relatively) with the Wankel rotary. The RX8 is the ONLY production car on the planet to use a rotary engine. Some people are frighten (intimidated) by that fact. Others, the Mavericks, embrace it. It's not a question of which technology is better or worse at this or that, it's about risk taking. Many are unwilling to take the chance for fear that they will be scoffed at or ridiculed for this or that disadvantage. Many times they're right. Playing it safe is just that....well.....SAFE. However every once in a while the Maverick latches on to something great and is rewarded for taking that chance.
The "jury" is still out on the RX8 for the "play it safe" crowd, but for the Mavericks the RX8 is a "Diamond in the Ruff"
Last edited by mbrule6465; 04-05-2008 at 08:20 PM.
04-05-2008, 01:34 AM
#55
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Although there are rational explanations as to why the RX8 is a runaway smash hit, there are truly no good reasons for it. Sounds like double speak doesn't it?
Allow me to explain:
Look, people are followers. It takes a lot of guts to try a new thing, to move outside the mainstream, and that's what you're doing when you buy an RX8. You're taking a chance on new technology (relatively) with the wankle rotary. The RX8 is the ONLY production car on the planet to use a rotary engine. Some people are frighten (intimidated) by that fact. Others, the Mavericks, embrace it. It's not a question of which technology is better or worse at this or that, it's about risk taking. Many are unwilling to take the chance for fear that they will be scoffed at or ridiculed for this or that disadvantage. Many time they're right. Playing it safe is just that....well.....SAFE. However every once in a while the Maverick latches on to something great and is rewarded for taking that chance.
The "jury" is still out on the RX8 for the "play it safe" crowd, but for the Mavericks the RX8 is a "Diamond in the Ruff"
Allow me to explain:
Look, people are followers. It takes a lot of guts to try a new thing, to move outside the mainstream, and that's what you're doing when you buy an RX8. You're taking a chance on new technology (relatively) with the wankle rotary. The RX8 is the ONLY production car on the planet to use a rotary engine. Some people are frighten (intimidated) by that fact. Others, the Mavericks, embrace it. It's not a question of which technology is better or worse at this or that, it's about risk taking. Many are unwilling to take the chance for fear that they will be scoffed at or ridiculed for this or that disadvantage. Many time they're right. Playing it safe is just that....well.....SAFE. However every once in a while the Maverick latches on to something great and is rewarded for taking that chance.
The "jury" is still out on the RX8 for the "play it safe" crowd, but for the Mavericks the RX8 is a "Diamond in the Ruff"
With the RX-8 Mazda carved out a car that has a smaller niche market than expected, it's as simple as that. I like the RX-8 but I want something faster and more tunable. My wife likes the RX-8 but needs something with better gas mileage and she doesn't like the looks. A friend I recently told to check out the RX-8 didn't like the lack of torgue and wanted something more luxorious. Many other people I know feel the same way and go another direction from the RX-8 even though overall they like it. It simply doesn't fit most buyers as well as other cars on the market do.
04-05-2008, 01:44 AM
#56
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Then we agree
Or maybe it's simply because the "Wankel" has a pretty checked past or reliability that is somewhat being carried on by the Renesis. It's slower than a V6 family sedan, consumes more gasoline than a Vette, and has love it or hate it looks. There are only so many people out there that will be willing to compromise, mileage and straightline speed for a little better handling. For everyone else there are a lot of other cars on the market that handle pretty well and are faster and get similar or better gas mileage than the RX-8.
With the RX-8 Mazda carved out a car that has a smaller niche market than expected, it's as simple as that. I like the RX-8 but I want something faster and more tunable. My wife likes the RX-8 but needs something with better gas mileage and she doesn't like the looks. A friend I recently told to check out the RX-8 didn't like the lack of torgue and wanted something more luxorious. Many other people I know feel the same way and go another direction from the RX-8 even though overall they like it. It simply doesn't fit most buyers as well as other cars on the market do.
With the RX-8 Mazda carved out a car that has a smaller niche market than expected, it's as simple as that. I like the RX-8 but I want something faster and more tunable. My wife likes the RX-8 but needs something with better gas mileage and she doesn't like the looks. A friend I recently told to check out the RX-8 didn't like the lack of torgue and wanted something more luxorious. Many other people I know feel the same way and go another direction from the RX-8 even though overall they like it. It simply doesn't fit most buyers as well as other cars on the market do.
04-05-2008, 02:23 AM
#57
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Not really... The car I drive is far less common than an RX-8, but I'm no "maverick". I'm simply one of the few that's willing to deal with the harsh ride, obscene insurance rates, and ugly interior to have the best performance for my dollar. You're one of the people that's willing to put up with lousy gas mileage, questionable reliability and a lack or power for good handling and polarizing looks. Not "mavericks", simply people that found a car that fits them best that doesn't fit many other people best. Mitsubishi had a pretty good idea of what they had in my car and how many people would want one. Mazda grossly overestimated how many people would want an RX-8.
04-05-2008, 02:44 AM
#58
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Not really... The car I drive is far less common than an RX-8, but I'm no "maverick". I'm simply one of the few that's willing to deal with the harsh ride, obscene insurance rates, and ugly interior to have the best performance for my dollar. You're one of the people that's willing to put up with lousy gas mileage, questionable reliability and a lack or power for good handling and polarizing looks. Not "mavericks", simply people that found a car that fits them best that doesn't fit many other people best. Mitsubishi had a pretty good idea of what they had in my car and how many people would want one. Mazda grossly overestimated how many people would want an RX-8.
04-05-2008, 09:19 AM
#59
(Of course, maybe it's correlated with education level; the more years of school you have, the more likely you are to choose feel & handling over "Bet I can beat that Mustang to the next light!" Like people who choose a Mac over a PC, I do suspect 8 owners are, with a few exceptions, a generally well-educated bunch.)
Last edited by New Yorker; 04-05-2008 at 09:22 AM.
04-05-2008, 09:54 AM
#60
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The RX-8's horrific 0-60 time (5.9 seconds, OMG is that slow!) is not a significant reason for lower sales; the MX-5 is a perenially popular sports car - and it's hardly fast. By your logic the MX-5 would be unpopular, too. But it isn't.
I agree that the slight increase in maintenance probably scares off some prospective buyers, but if there's widespread belief that the 8 suffers from "engine failures" - which I doubt - it comes from the "engine failure" propoganda that you and five other people on this forum continue to propogate, and not from reality: that Mazda chose to replace - rather than repair - the small percentage of mostly '04 first-year-of-production cars that had engines that failed a compression test.
An engine that runs with some loss of power and that is then replaced - instead of just repaired - because it fails a compression test is NOT THE SAME as "engine failure". "Engine failure" is a commonly used expression that to the vast majority of people conjures up images of an engine suddenly making a loud, explosive sound as it suddenly freezes, stops dead in its tracks, releasing a dramatic cloud of smoke and sparks, leaving its poor, unsuspecting owner stranded in the middle of nowhere.
If Mazda had elected to repair the engines that failed the compression test there wouldn't be any talk of "engine failure," so I find it ironic that in taking the extra step of replacing the engines Mazda opened the door to pinheads casually throwing around highly negative, frightening and emotionally-loaded terms like "engine failure". But, like with any good propoganda, if you repeat it often enough it will, in time, become fact. Here, let me help you: ENGINE FAILURE! ENGINE FAILURE! Oh god forbid we buy a car that'll have an engine failure!!!
I agree that the slight increase in maintenance probably scares off some prospective buyers, but if there's widespread belief that the 8 suffers from "engine failures" - which I doubt - it comes from the "engine failure" propoganda that you and five other people on this forum continue to propogate, and not from reality: that Mazda chose to replace - rather than repair - the small percentage of mostly '04 first-year-of-production cars that had engines that failed a compression test.
An engine that runs with some loss of power and that is then replaced - instead of just repaired - because it fails a compression test is NOT THE SAME as "engine failure". "Engine failure" is a commonly used expression that to the vast majority of people conjures up images of an engine suddenly making a loud, explosive sound as it suddenly freezes, stops dead in its tracks, releasing a dramatic cloud of smoke and sparks, leaving its poor, unsuspecting owner stranded in the middle of nowhere.
If Mazda had elected to repair the engines that failed the compression test there wouldn't be any talk of "engine failure," so I find it ironic that in taking the extra step of replacing the engines Mazda opened the door to pinheads casually throwing around highly negative, frightening and emotionally-loaded terms like "engine failure". But, like with any good propoganda, if you repeat it often enough it will, in time, become fact. Here, let me help you: ENGINE FAILURE! ENGINE FAILURE! Oh god forbid we buy a car that'll have an engine failure!!!
04-05-2008, 10:45 AM
#61
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As one of the original U.S. owners of the RX-8, and a longtime Rotary Nut and Mazda customer, I'd like to respond to this question by making two points:
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
04-05-2008, 10:52 AM
#62
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I think, in this country, at least, that's true. Unlike the rest of the world, the US has a large body of people who choose grunt, straightline speed over "feel" and handling. Probably has something to do with the vast middle 2/3 of the country, where the roads are often flat and straight for hours at a time. Seems like the farther you get from the Midwest, the more you see cars than can really handle. Ever notice how it's people on the coasts who tend to favor cars that can change direction quickly?
(Of course, maybe it's correlated with education level; the more years of school you have, the more likely you are to choose feel & handling over "Bet I can beat that Mustang to the next light!" Like people who choose a Mac over a PC, I do suspect 8 owners are, with a few exceptions, a generally well-educated bunch.)
(Of course, maybe it's correlated with education level; the more years of school you have, the more likely you are to choose feel & handling over "Bet I can beat that Mustang to the next light!" Like people who choose a Mac over a PC, I do suspect 8 owners are, with a few exceptions, a generally well-educated bunch.)
Point being, that at least people who go for brute force will most likely actually use their car's for what they bought them for...
I disagree with people saying the rotary is one of the reasons the car hasn't done well. I don't think joe schmoe public knows the difference between a rotary and a piston engine. The guy said it well that a v6 sedan has better acceleration, a corvette better gas mileage, and the looks are love it or hate it. Most people buying cars have very simple needs, and a unique engine and rocket-ship styling are usually not on that list.
04-05-2008, 11:09 AM
#63
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It is also much safer to experience 90% of your car's 0-60mph performance than it is to experience 90% of the handling capabilities of the rx-8 on public roads. I would guess (completely made-up numbers of course) that fewer than 20% of rx-8 owners actually will ever experience the handling capabilities of their cars. When people say "handling" they really mean "sporty feel".
Point being, that at least people who go for brute force will most likely actually use their car's for what they bought them for...
I disagree with people saying the rotary is one of the reasons the car hasn't done well. I don't think joe schmoe public knows the difference between a rotary and a piston engine. The guy said it well that a v6 sedan has better acceleration, a corvette better gas mileage, and the looks are love it or hate it. Most people buying cars have very simple needs, and a unique engine and rocket-ship styling are usually not on that list.
Point being, that at least people who go for brute force will most likely actually use their car's for what they bought them for...
I disagree with people saying the rotary is one of the reasons the car hasn't done well. I don't think joe schmoe public knows the difference between a rotary and a piston engine. The guy said it well that a v6 sedan has better acceleration, a corvette better gas mileage, and the looks are love it or hate it. Most people buying cars have very simple needs, and a unique engine and rocket-ship styling are usually not on that list.
04-05-2008, 11:11 AM
#64
Huge hole is huge
As one of the original U.S. owners of the RX-8, and a longtime Rotary Nut and Mazda customer, I'd like to respond to this question by making two points:
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
04-05-2008, 11:24 AM
#65
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Give that man a gold star.
As one of the original U.S. owners of the RX-8, and a longtime Rotary Nut and Mazda customer, I'd like to respond to this question by making two points:
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
1. The RX-8 is popular, but not plentiful. The popular, plentiful cars like the Honda Accord and Civic and the Toyota Camry and Corolla are mass market "units" to appease the masses. The RX-8 is popular in the niche market in which it is sold. The RX-8 (and Mazdas in general) are very popular in my social circle.
2. The RX-8 is popular with folks like me because it is the perfect family car. I can take my family of four to dinner on Friday night and take it to the track on Saturday morning. It is comfortable and reliable, has a nice ride, handles well, has good power, great brakes, and decent trunk space. The fuel economy, although not stellar, is not that far from its rivals.
[I'm satisfied with the fuel mileage... 21mpg ... because the RX-8 replaced my 1988 RX-7 (which got the same mileage but held 2 fewer people and had 100 fewer HP)]
The bottom line is that it's all in your perspective.
04-05-2008, 11:55 AM
#66
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Actually I would think the primary buyer of a MX-5 is not looking for speed. They are content with a fun to drive car which can easily out weigh straight line performance. On the other hand every other yahoo that comes in here considering the 8 and looking for opinions is almost always concerned with acceleration and power as it's all but natural to compare it to any Z, RX-7 or STi/Evo or any of the faster of the Japanese cars.
04-05-2008, 01:20 PM
#67
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I think a major reasons the car gets a bad rap is because every car magazine says it burns oil and your average john q public idiot knows that burning oil is bad, nevermind that it's made to do that by design. I agree with the others, leave them to their mustangs and I'll keep my lovely 8. It's a car for connosieurs, not for the masses
04-05-2008, 03:25 PM
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Actually I would think the primary buyer of a MX-5 is not looking for speed. They are content with a fun to drive car which can easily out weigh straight line performance. On the other hand every other yahoo that comes in here considering the 8 and looking for opinions is almost always concerned with acceleration and power as it's all but natural to compare it to any Z, RX-7 or STi/Evo or any of the faster of the Japanese cars.
04-05-2008, 03:55 PM
#69
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Pardon what may seem at best a minor detail but I feel the need to point out that the average v6 family sedan although may be quicker than an RX8 it's not by much but very few are actually faster as the original assertion suggested. Most family sedan are governed to a speed appropriate to the tires, brakes, and suspension with which they are equipped. I own a 96 Buick Roadmaster wagon equipped with an LT1 350 and it's pretty quick but fast it ain't with a top speed governed at 105 mph as it should be.
04-05-2008, 04:35 PM
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Complex question
As a sales manager who has sold Mazdas since the beginning of 05 (and more rx8's then any line-sales man in the NW 06-07) I thought I'd put in my two cents (for what its worth).
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
04-05-2008, 05:00 PM
#71
Blue By You
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Milwaukee
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As a sales manager who has sold Mazdas since the beginning of 05 (and more rx8's then any line-sales man in the NW 06-07) I thought I'd put in my two cents (for what its worth).
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
1.) It's Wankel, not Wankle. The FB sold wonderfully because it had clear advantages over the competition and much of that had to do with the rotary. Fast forward 20+ years and the advantages are minimal and the cons are still present.
2.) They sold worse than Mazda expected. They didn't hit their first years sales goals and the first few years had production outpacing demand by a good amount which led to cars sitting on lots for a long time and having to be deeply discounted to be moved. This killed resale more than anything.
3.) Yeah, there's some misinformation, but Mazda has done plenty to shoot themselves in the foot. They dropped the ball on the cooling and design of the FD. They dropped the ball on the horsepower ratings more than once with the RX-8. Then the video surfaced about the owner surveys and RX-8. Then the recall and a lot of replaced engines. Those are all real problems and have nothing to do with misinformation.
4.) There's nothing perceived about it... The fuel economy is poor. It might be somewhat close to cars like the Z or G35, but look at the straight line performance and horsepower of those heavier cars, and then consider they still often get better mileage. Don't fool yourself, sportscar owners still care about gas mileage. Now more than ever with the current and forecasted price of gas.
5.) Numbers aside, if you're used to having good torque down low the RX-8 will feel a little doggy, it's as simple as that.
6.) I haven't read it in a long time so no comment here.
04-05-2008, 05:51 PM
#72
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sheboygan Falls, Wisconsin
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Why Mazda does not even advertise this car is beyond me. I know there were a few commercials early on but now every Mazda commercial includes everything but the RX-8. Sales would be sure to go up a least a little if they advertised it. There are still several instances when someone might ask me about the car at a gas station because they don't even know what the heck it is. It still gets tons of looks too. But I suppose overall, this country will never be able to look past hp and 0-60 when looking for a sporty/sports car.
04-05-2008, 07:05 PM
#73
Rex8
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I think a major reasons the car gets a bad rap is because every car magazine says it burns oil and your average john q public idiot knows that burning oil is bad, nevermind that it's made to do that by design. I agree with the others, leave them to their mustangs and I'll keep my lovely 8. It's a car for connosieurs, not for the masses
04-05-2008, 07:36 PM
#74
mazda salesman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NE Portland, OR
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Complex question
As a sales manager who has sold Mazdas since the beginning of 05 (and more rx8's then any line-sales man in the NW 06-07) I thought I'd put in my two cents (for what its worth).
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
04-05-2008, 07:40 PM
#75
mazda salesman
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NE Portland, OR
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
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Complex question
As a sales manager who has sold Mazdas since the beginning of 05 (and more rx8's then any line-sales man in the NW 06-07) I thought I'd put in my two cents (for what its worth).
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
Please forgive my typos as I'm at work and typing faster then I can actually speak.
1. VERY speciallized niche. Customers in this market are very picky and fickle for the most part. Probably about half are previous Wankle owners but those coming from piston driven sportscars have a hard time wrapping their head around the concept (myself included. I had to own one!).
2. Its not that the car has been unpopular, in fact they've sold better then Mazda expected. Limited production = encreased desire = profitability. Mazdais currently at 120% production globally even with three new plants world wide and preference goes to cars that tend to sell in higher volume.
3. Misinformation is abound with this car/engine (people ask me all the time if ALL Mazdas still have rotary engines). People don't know WHY oil is consumed and believe it to be a sign of a failing engine the way it would be in a piston engine. Salesman error also contributed to this. Retention in my industry is incrediably low and level of professionalism even lower. Consider with that there had not been a rotary engine sold in the US for 10 years before the release of the RX8 and uninformed customers fell prey to issues unique to the rotary therefore adding to the "horror stories" people half remember hearing.
4. Perceved fuel economy. In fact, the RX8 is right where it should be compared to its competition (not that there is any). People who are going to buy this car are sports car fanatics for the most part, why would fuel economy really matter. Besides fuel economy is GREATly influenced by the amount of foot you keep in the pedal, people who love to drive will have a hard time with that in this car.
5. Numbers on paper (ie torq stats) belie the feel of this car. We have been trained so on torque curve dyno readings that we have no concept of a near-flat torque curve and why it would be advantageous.
6. A HORRIBLY written recall notice last year had a huge influence on the market. IMHO the person responsible for the wording of that letter should be drawn and quartered. or at least sent to a class on diplomacy. You could almost see the resale fall overnight.
Resale-
ALL of these factors are responsible as to the resale of the RX8. Couple that with the current market (used AND new) and you'll see this isn't a trend that is only applicable to the RX8. As someone who buys and sells cars every day of the week, i can tell you that numbers according to KBB aren't the whole story. Kelly is a great guide but has never sold or bought a SINGLE car (I sincerly wish they would). A couple of years ago you could bet the bank that a Honda or Toyota would be true to or even higher then the kbb values. Today it is common place to buy several models of either of those brands at 4, 5, even $6k below kbb trade-in value (i bought a pilot day before yesterday AT AUCTION for $6k back.) Also, resale on cars, with a very few exceptions, always falls for a few years before it catches. The true test of a classic car will come much later. Bottom line, cars are a Sh#%y investment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
I love these cars and I love working for a company who designs, builds, and retails cars that are as much fun as Mazdas.
Feel free to contact me if you need any information on pricing or the current market/ availability!
Please forgive my typos as I'm at work and typing faster then I can actually speak.