Why Premix?
10-29-2011, 09:53 AM
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Why Premix?
So I have an RX8 that's getting up there in miles (just over 90k on original engine), and I noticed all the crud on my spark plugs when I changed them last week, and it looks like that crud is in the engine as well. I remember seeing a delete kit for the Oil Metering Pump, and then premixing heavily with 2 stroke oil which is obviously better to burn.
My question is, why hasn't anyone come out with a "reroute" kit that would allow you to have a small 2 stroke oil tank under the hood, which fed the OMP instead of the stock setup. That way you're directly using 2 stroke oil in the combustion chamber without having to premix. You could keep an eye on the oil level and figure out the ratio necessary when you set up the system instead of having to worry about constantly premixing. Is something like this already available and I just don't know about it?
Chris
My question is, why hasn't anyone come out with a "reroute" kit that would allow you to have a small 2 stroke oil tank under the hood, which fed the OMP instead of the stock setup. That way you're directly using 2 stroke oil in the combustion chamber without having to premix. You could keep an eye on the oil level and figure out the ratio necessary when you set up the system instead of having to worry about constantly premixing. Is something like this already available and I just don't know about it?
Chris
10-29-2011, 10:13 AM
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You haven't done much searching.
The SOHN adapter is much mentioned on this forum.
http://www.rotaryinsider.com/diy-tac...pter-gap28.htm
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm
And that being said, OMP lubrication alone cools the side seals but does not lubricate the center of the apex seals. Premixing alone only lubricates the apex seals, but does not cool the side seals.
Both is still recommended.
The SOHN adapter is much mentioned on this forum.
http://www.rotaryinsider.com/diy-tac...pter-gap28.htm
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/oil_in...p_adaptors.htm
And that being said, OMP lubrication alone cools the side seals but does not lubricate the center of the apex seals. Premixing alone only lubricates the apex seals, but does not cool the side seals.
Both is still recommended.
10-29-2011, 11:38 AM
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You do realize not everyone has time to go through every post on this forum right? Some of us work, and don't have time to post 4,000 times. This is about the most hostile forum i think I've ever been on, if you don't feel like answering the question don't post. If no one asked questions (even occasionally the same one) there wouldn't be much of a forum.
10-29-2011, 11:48 AM
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I actually did answer the question, and it wasn't intended to be hostile, but it takes less time to find the answer than to create a thread with the assumption that it hasn't been thought of.
10-29-2011, 08:58 PM
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I tend to agree, though i dont see RIWWP having been hostile. But I run a search and 90% of the threads are all the same "search". So i have to dig through EVERY thread to actually find an answer. I do it anyway instead of posting. I just hate that instead of finding a thread that says "here's a link to the answer, try searching", instead there's 500 threads of "try searching" and only a couple with an answer.
Ok, I'm done ranting. haha.
edit: I did notice RIWWP has the links, which is always appreciated when we're searching a forum and hit a thread that has them.
Ok, I'm done ranting. haha.
edit: I did notice RIWWP has the links, which is always appreciated when we're searching a forum and hit a thread that has them.
10-30-2011, 12:58 AM
#6
You're absolutely right. It's very annoying when someone points you to a dictionary and all you want is the correct spelling of a single word. I try to answer as many questions here as I can.
10-31-2011, 09:18 AM
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10-31-2011, 09:29 AM
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Yes, you did, and thanks for that. I just don't understand the nasty attitude on the forum, and don't act like any of you don't know what I mean.
10-31-2011, 09:33 AM
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"attitude" is entirely the frame of mind that you are reading it in.
Text is text. It is entirely possible to write the exact same words as a sigh, a threat, in anger, casual observance, or even fun. My post was not written in any form of "nasty attitude", but you read it that way.
I make no apologies for your mis-interpretation of the tone that you had in your head when you read my answer.
Text is text. It is entirely possible to write the exact same words as a sigh, a threat, in anger, casual observance, or even fun. My post was not written in any form of "nasty attitude", but you read it that way.
I make no apologies for your mis-interpretation of the tone that you had in your head when you read my answer.
10-31-2011, 10:24 AM
#13
There is no excuse for not doing a search. If you don't have time to do a search you don't have time to maintain an 8.
You think it's hostile here? Try bringing this crap to 7 club. Next time don't be so lazy and clog up the forum with useless posts. It bring the quality of the forum down.
This isn't an AOL chat room.
While you're intentions are good, as a forum, catering to lazy n00bs makes searching for answers harder since you will have to sift through more crap that basically repeats the same stuff over and over.
You think it's hostile here? Try bringing this crap to 7 club. Next time don't be so lazy and clog up the forum with useless posts. It bring the quality of the forum down.
While you're intentions are good, as a forum, catering to lazy n00bs makes searching for answers harder since you will have to sift through more crap that basically repeats the same stuff over and over.
Last edited by Supernaut6; 10-31-2011 at 10:27 AM.
10-31-2011, 12:11 PM
#17
You do realize not everyone has time to go through every post on this forum right? Some of us work, and don't have time to post 4,000 times. This is about the most hostile forum i think I've ever been on, if you don't feel like answering the question don't post. If no one asked questions (even occasionally the same one) there wouldn't be much of a forum.
This looks rather nasty to me.
10-31-2011, 12:29 PM
#18
You do realize not everyone has time to go through every post on this forum right? Some of us work, and don't have time to post 4,000 times. This is about the most hostile forum i think I've ever been on, if you don't feel like answering the question don't post. If no one asked questions (even occasionally the same one) there wouldn't be much of a forum.
Observe: http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=site%3Arx8club.com+2+stroke+oil
It will find things that the VBullettin search engine wouldn't even sniff.
10-31-2011, 12:33 PM
#19
as a fellow newbie (to this site) but a veteran and even former mod of other forums, i recommend google's "site: [url goes here]" functionality. It will help alleviate situations like this. It has certainly helped me, being new to both the rx-8 and rotaries in general.
Observe: Http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=utf-8&q=site%3arx8club.com+2+stroke+oil
it will find things that the vbullettin search engine wouldn't even sniff.
Observe: Http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=utf-8&q=site%3arx8club.com+2+stroke+oil
it will find things that the vbullettin search engine wouldn't even sniff.
10-31-2011, 12:34 PM
#20
Rotary Evolution
a little side note about the center of the apex seal lubrication. the center of the apex seal really does not need as much lubrication as the 2 outside edges of the apex seals, which is why with the renesis the injectors were split and moved to those 2 locations.
the wear in the center of the rotor housings is minimal but as you work your way to the outside the wear becomes drastically more prominent. i did notice with earlier 13B engines that there was however a wear line in phase with the center oil injector location(the wear stopped as just at the side of the injector spray pattern). the OMP system actually caused MORE wear to the earlier 13B center port housing. premixing spreads wear evenly throughout the combustion chamber. i feel the OMP system is a weak compromise to premixing the fuel instead.
here is a picture of an earlier 13B housing with the center OMP port, you can trace that wear line directly around and it lines up with the oil injector port every time. i see this alot with higher mile engines of those series. and of course the typical outer edge surface wear.
the oil metering system is a joke and always has been.
the wear in the center of the rotor housings is minimal but as you work your way to the outside the wear becomes drastically more prominent. i did notice with earlier 13B engines that there was however a wear line in phase with the center oil injector location(the wear stopped as just at the side of the injector spray pattern). the OMP system actually caused MORE wear to the earlier 13B center port housing. premixing spreads wear evenly throughout the combustion chamber. i feel the OMP system is a weak compromise to premixing the fuel instead.
here is a picture of an earlier 13B housing with the center OMP port, you can trace that wear line directly around and it lines up with the oil injector port every time. i see this alot with higher mile engines of those series. and of course the typical outer edge surface wear.
the oil metering system is a joke and always has been.
Last edited by Karack; 10-31-2011 at 12:44 PM.
10-31-2011, 12:48 PM
#22
Rotary Evolution
maybe i'll see something that tells me otherwise on the renesis as i pull apart more but so far the oil metering system in fact hurts the motor more than the good it provides.
10-31-2011, 01:04 PM
#23
well, without MOP, I think we will see far more dead engines probably 1 out of 3 every other day. we know MOP is not the best thing to have, Mazda knows it too, but they don't have a choice, it's MOP, or the car will not sell at all, cuz most people would not bother to add "16oz" of premix to every tank.
Last edited by nycgps; 10-31-2011 at 01:07 PM.
10-31-2011, 01:09 PM
#24
Rotary Evolution
not saying to run them dry but the MOP system itself doesn't do an adequate job. in reality they'd need to run about 5 injectors across the tip of the seal to lubricate it evenly. or premix which lubricates everything more completely and better.
of course for a mass produced car it was unrealistic for them to ever expect anyone to premix fuel, but that is why this forum exists.
of course for a mass produced car it was unrealistic for them to ever expect anyone to premix fuel, but that is why this forum exists.
Last edited by Karack; 10-31-2011 at 01:11 PM.
10-31-2011, 01:12 PM
#25
but I still think they should mix it with air, like the old days.
I premix all the time, but most people would never do that.
the wear in the center of the rotor housings is minimal but as you work your way to the outside the wear becomes drastically more prominent. i did notice with earlier 13B engines that there was however a wear line in phase with the center oil injector location(the wear stopped as just at the side of the injector spray pattern). the OMP system actually caused MORE wear to the earlier 13B center port housing. premixing spreads wear evenly throughout the combustion chamber. i feel the OMP system is a weak compromise to premixing the fuel instead.
here is a picture of an earlier 13B housing with the center OMP port, you can trace that wear line directly around and it lines up with the oil injector port every time. i see this alot with higher mile engines of those series. and of course the typical outer edge surface wear.
the oil metering system is a joke and always has been.
here is a picture of an earlier 13B housing with the center OMP port, you can trace that wear line directly around and it lines up with the oil injector port every time. i see this alot with higher mile engines of those series. and of course the typical outer edge surface wear.
the oil metering system is a joke and always has been.
They have to have OMP or the car would never sell.
