why no information?
08-12-2002, 08:26 PM
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I have to admit I was curious to know if that was where your name came from, BlueAdept- it's been years since I read those, and was too chicken to ask and look like a big dork if I was wrong 
08-12-2002, 09:14 PM
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I loved those books, but I think it's been almost 15 years since I've read them. Stile was his name?
Back on topic, I'd love to see some pics of those posters also. I can't wait to see the commercial also! How cool will that be?
Back on topic, I'd love to see some pics of those posters also. I can't wait to see the commercial also! How cool will that be?
08-13-2002, 01:05 AM
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the faultyness i was referring to had to do with excessive oil burning, smog gear breaking, poor mileage, and being underpowered. now before anyone reacts to what i just said, let me explain something. i have never owned a first gen with a rotary in it (though i did buy a dead 1980 off a friend and shoved a chevy 350 in it for fun. but thats another story). and also, i know there are many many people out there who have had great luck with their first gens and who have driven them several hundred thousand miles with only standard maintenance. however, there are also many people i have found who owned 1st gen rx7s and learned to hate them because they were always in the shop. now, its quite possible that these people whos 7s were always in need of repair simply didnt know how to take care of them or were abusive to their cars, but either way, there does exist a large set of people who think lowly of the first gen and therefore never bought or messed with the 2nd gen (which im guessing was aimed at the same market as the first gen).
the 3rd gen was aimed at people with more money i think. it was made for a differnet market than the 1st and 2nd gen cars. to my knowledge (mostly from what ive gathered on forums) the problems were turbo related. i also know the 3rd gens had a lot of recalls on them for various problems. so yes, the 3rd gen was also "faulty," but it didnt suffer from being too weak. the car was snappy and more fun to drive than any of its predicessors. thus, if the masses were to fall in love with driving a rotary, it would most likely be from driving a 3rd gen. but then once they learn that they cant afford it, theyll go by something else.
the 3rd gen was aimed at people with more money i think. it was made for a differnet market than the 1st and 2nd gen cars. to my knowledge (mostly from what ive gathered on forums) the problems were turbo related. i also know the 3rd gens had a lot of recalls on them for various problems. so yes, the 3rd gen was also "faulty," but it didnt suffer from being too weak. the car was snappy and more fun to drive than any of its predicessors. thus, if the masses were to fall in love with driving a rotary, it would most likely be from driving a 3rd gen. but then once they learn that they cant afford it, theyll go by something else.
08-13-2002, 05:22 AM
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now all the stuff you said about the first gen 7 could be true for any car over or poorly driven, but under powered?? uh, have you ever compared it with another car in its class at that time?? no?? doesn't seem like it... take a look at the 240 Z (more power, way more weight... adds up to slower), supra, or i dunno...other european sports cars of similar size, trim, and cost... the 7 was world class!! no, not a muscle car, but that's apples and oranges... oh, but definitely not easy on the gas, ya, that's correct, but not really too far off from other cars of its time (and who really cares anyway?? it's not as bad as a hemi)...
another thing, TONS of people fell in love with the 7 because of the first gen, which in a way i think was at the time very much like the miata was at its inception: a very affordable, light, small, easy to drive and peppy sports car... just look at the sales numbers!! over 70 000 in the first year (if i remember that correctly)!!
the second gen also didn't do too badly, and again, was competitive at the time, and alluring in as you say, the same vein... and in my books the sexiest Japanese car from the Eighties...
and yep, 3rd gen was the luxo-mobile... and ya, the problems (cracked manifolds!!
and the like...) were heat related from the turbo system (which was the first sequential system in a production car in the world...)..
and it's not overpriced... certainly not!! it's simply retained its resale value because of its inherent awesomeness... people recongnize this performance level, the rareness of the car, the mystique of the rotary... for those who really value them, they'd gladly pay the price!! (had they the money, which unfortunatly i do not, thought Styjan did... yay Styjan!!)
*edited for sticky keyboard mistakes*
another thing, TONS of people fell in love with the 7 because of the first gen, which in a way i think was at the time very much like the miata was at its inception: a very affordable, light, small, easy to drive and peppy sports car... just look at the sales numbers!! over 70 000 in the first year (if i remember that correctly)!!
the second gen also didn't do too badly, and again, was competitive at the time, and alluring in as you say, the same vein... and in my books the sexiest Japanese car from the Eighties...
and yep, 3rd gen was the luxo-mobile... and ya, the problems (cracked manifolds!!
and the like...) were heat related from the turbo system (which was the first sequential system in a production car in the world...)..and it's not overpriced... certainly not!! it's simply retained its resale value because of its inherent awesomeness... people recongnize this performance level, the rareness of the car, the mystique of the rotary... for those who really value them, they'd gladly pay the price!! (had they the money, which unfortunatly i do not, thought Styjan did... yay Styjan!!)
*edited for sticky keyboard mistakes*
08-13-2002, 08:30 AM
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ok ok, ill admit that i spoke without doing my all of my homework. but after doing some digging around, here is what ive found.
the 280z is the only nissan car that can be compared with the 1st gen since the 240z and 260z wer dropped by 1978. in 1979, the 280z had a 135HP/144ftlb engine and a weight of 2825 lbs. the rx7 of the same year had a 100HP/105ftlb engine and a weight of 2450 lbs. this makes 20.9lbs/HP for the 280z and 24.5lbs/HP for the rx7. this means that the 280z is most likely quicker since it has fewer pounds of matter to lug around for each horsepower the engine produces. (i know the normal ratio is HP/lbs, but in this case, the reciprocol is better at displaying the info i want to convey)
as far as the supra goes, it really didnt exist as anything more than a trim package to the celica until the 1986. but either way, as the celica supra was the competition to the 1st gen also, i guess its okay to compare them. the 1979 celica supra engine produced 125HP and 127 ftlb. i didnt come across weight specs for this year, but i think a reasonable approximation from nearby years woule be somewhere in the 2500 lb area. this gives a ratio of 20lb/HP. again, probably faster. in order to have the same ratio as the rx7, the celica supra would have to weigh 3062 lbs.
i admit that the rx7 was not intended to be a muscle car. and your right, it would be apples and oranges if i tried to convince anyone otherwise. however, given the rx7's lower power to weight ratio (or higher weight to power ratio as i have shown), one would tend to expect better mileage to compensate. this, however, was not the case.
the statement that thousands of people fell in love with the rx7 because of the 1st gen is a normative statement. its reasonable to assume that thousands of people fell in love with other cars too. we have to consider that there were perhaps thousands of people who learned to hate the rx7 because of the 1st gen.
just FYI, there were only 45,278 miatas produced by 1989 (the first year of the miata) therefore there could not have been 70,000 miatas sold.
the claim i made about the 3rd gen being overpriced was also normative. what i meant to say is that for the market to which the 1st and 2nd gen catered to, the 3rd gen would most likely prove to be too expensive and therefore overpriced for someone simply seeking to by a rotary-powered car. i agree with you that for all of the technology involved in the 3rd gen, the price was decent to say the least. however, we should remember that its price is what drove it to extinction (or at least hybrination =) ). for the average rotary consumer who simply wants a rotary car without all the bells and whistles, the 3rd gen was too much money and saddly, there was no watered-down model offered to satisfy the market of the 1st and 2nd gen rx7s.
i hope ive been tactful enough to not start a fight. remember, im on your side! i love rx7s of all generations, but i can also step into the shoes of those who dont and understand why. ive included references to the pages i used to get the info for this post.
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~beadles/
http://www.geocities.com/thezshed/specs.html
http://www.monito.com/wankel/engines.html#Mazda
http://www.rx7.org/public/1st-gen.html
http://drp.4t.com/toyota_engine_chart.html
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gallante/celica/celica.html
http://www.miata.net/faq/production....d%20in%2019xx?
the 280z is the only nissan car that can be compared with the 1st gen since the 240z and 260z wer dropped by 1978. in 1979, the 280z had a 135HP/144ftlb engine and a weight of 2825 lbs. the rx7 of the same year had a 100HP/105ftlb engine and a weight of 2450 lbs. this makes 20.9lbs/HP for the 280z and 24.5lbs/HP for the rx7. this means that the 280z is most likely quicker since it has fewer pounds of matter to lug around for each horsepower the engine produces. (i know the normal ratio is HP/lbs, but in this case, the reciprocol is better at displaying the info i want to convey)
as far as the supra goes, it really didnt exist as anything more than a trim package to the celica until the 1986. but either way, as the celica supra was the competition to the 1st gen also, i guess its okay to compare them. the 1979 celica supra engine produced 125HP and 127 ftlb. i didnt come across weight specs for this year, but i think a reasonable approximation from nearby years woule be somewhere in the 2500 lb area. this gives a ratio of 20lb/HP. again, probably faster. in order to have the same ratio as the rx7, the celica supra would have to weigh 3062 lbs.
i admit that the rx7 was not intended to be a muscle car. and your right, it would be apples and oranges if i tried to convince anyone otherwise. however, given the rx7's lower power to weight ratio (or higher weight to power ratio as i have shown), one would tend to expect better mileage to compensate. this, however, was not the case.
the statement that thousands of people fell in love with the rx7 because of the 1st gen is a normative statement. its reasonable to assume that thousands of people fell in love with other cars too. we have to consider that there were perhaps thousands of people who learned to hate the rx7 because of the 1st gen.
just FYI, there were only 45,278 miatas produced by 1989 (the first year of the miata) therefore there could not have been 70,000 miatas sold.
the claim i made about the 3rd gen being overpriced was also normative. what i meant to say is that for the market to which the 1st and 2nd gen catered to, the 3rd gen would most likely prove to be too expensive and therefore overpriced for someone simply seeking to by a rotary-powered car. i agree with you that for all of the technology involved in the 3rd gen, the price was decent to say the least. however, we should remember that its price is what drove it to extinction (or at least hybrination =) ). for the average rotary consumer who simply wants a rotary car without all the bells and whistles, the 3rd gen was too much money and saddly, there was no watered-down model offered to satisfy the market of the 1st and 2nd gen rx7s.
i hope ive been tactful enough to not start a fight. remember, im on your side! i love rx7s of all generations, but i can also step into the shoes of those who dont and understand why. ive included references to the pages i used to get the info for this post.
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~beadles/
http://www.geocities.com/thezshed/specs.html
http://www.monito.com/wankel/engines.html#Mazda
http://www.rx7.org/public/1st-gen.html
http://drp.4t.com/toyota_engine_chart.html
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/gallante/celica/celica.html
http://www.miata.net/faq/production....d%20in%2019xx?
08-13-2002, 09:52 AM
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I'm not sure about your posted weight-to-hp numbers...they look good. But here are the performance numbers for those cars:
1974 Datsun 260Z 9.9 16.7
1983 Datsun 280ZX 9.4 16.9
1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo 7.3 15.7
1979 Mazda RX-7 GS 9.2 17.0
1982 Mazda RX-7 GSL 9.7 N/A
1983 Mazda RX-7 GS 9.5 17.0
1984 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE 7.8 15.9
Pretty damn close if you ask me...certainly not underpowered.
1974 Datsun 260Z 9.9 16.7
1983 Datsun 280ZX 9.4 16.9
1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo 7.3 15.7
1979 Mazda RX-7 GS 9.2 17.0
1982 Mazda RX-7 GSL 9.7 N/A
1983 Mazda RX-7 GS 9.5 17.0
1984 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE 7.8 15.9
Pretty damn close if you ask me...certainly not underpowered.
08-13-2002, 10:10 AM
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Oh, and also, if you check the IMSA standings for the early eighties I think you'll see that the RX-7 consistenlty outperformed the 280Z on the track...and that's what really matters! Afterall, these aren't drag racers...they're Sports Cars.
Steve
Steve
08-13-2002, 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Rich
This has been discussed numerous times, so a search will probably yield the most results.
This has been discussed numerous times, so a search will probably yield the most results.
My take is that the car is still about 8-10 months out, so I don't see what the problem is.
Originally posted by ZoomZoom
Well then, let’s all wait for Mazda to announce what the real numbers are and not get upset with Mazda. Mazda will probably announce the real numbers sometime in October or November, if not earlier.
Well then, let’s all wait for Mazda to announce what the real numbers are and not get upset with Mazda. Mazda will probably announce the real numbers sometime in October or November, if not earlier.
They are currently testing several RX-8s around the world, and have only seen fit to give the same old information over and over again to "news" sources like R&T? Come on already! :D
There is no one in here that has the right to know what the real numbers are today, but some of you in here sure act like you do. In sort give them a break and quite with all of the negative comments.
I'm not a Rockefeller y'know?I was personally promised that I would get the info from Mazda as soon as it was available. I have received NOTHING besides the tired old red RX-8 flyer with the tear off for more info (which I have sent in a few times and still received NOTHING BTW). The RX-8 CD I got on my own at the Auto Show. I end up providing info to the dealer my deposit is at because Mazda doesn't even make them aware of magazine articles.
This isn't the friggin' Holy Grail or something that needs to be a guarded secret for cryin' out loud. It's a CAR. A car that costs MONEY. Your money and my money. I've screamed it before, and I'll scream it again and again until someone there wakes up. GIVE US SOME FACTS TO CHEW ON! :D
There, I feel better again. For now...
08-13-2002, 04:37 PM
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NOTA's right
I'm seriously starved for news, I got the CD through the writing competition, and I popped it in... it took two minutes to get bored of it, there's nothing new in there (I'd been warned).
MORE FRICKIN INFO, MAZDA!!!!
AND MAKE IT GROUNDBREAKING, OR I'LL START PRINTING MY OWN FLYERS OF Z'S AND G35'S AND SPREAD THEM THROUGH NORTH AMERICA!!!!:D
MORE FRICKIN INFO, MAZDA!!!!
AND MAKE IT GROUNDBREAKING, OR I'LL START PRINTING MY OWN FLYERS OF Z'S AND G35'S AND SPREAD THEM THROUGH NORTH AMERICA!!!!:D
08-13-2002, 09:19 PM
#38
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notav6 was so dead on the way i feel i had to quote the whole thing!
Originally posted by NOTA V6
But is obviously deserving of yet another discussion by the number of posts that have appeared on this thread.
It's mid August now. I count 6 months if the car is released in mid-February. The problem is there has been no NEW information for those of us that may like to consider the options checklist, or the purchase of a special model.
Pshhh! They'd better be earlier! What do you think we've been doing besides waiting for a real announcement? The RX-8's 3rd iteration (RX-Evolve, Red concept, yellow concept) was unveiled in what month again? January or March? I don't remember that far back. They are currently testing several RX-8s around the world, and have only seen fit to give the same old information over and over again to "news" sources like R&T? Come on already! :D
Bah! There is no company that has a right to hang on to my $500 for a year and not give me a friggin' promotional package of some sort that tells me what I may or may not be getting. I'm not a Rockefeller y'know?
I was personally promised that I would get the info from Mazda as soon as it was available. I have received NOTHING besides the tired old red RX-8 flyer with the tear off for more info (which I have sent in a few times and still received NOTHING BTW). The RX-8 CD I got on my own at the Auto Show. I end up providing info to the dealer my deposit is at because Mazda doesn't even make them aware of magazine articles.
This isn't the friggin' Holy Grail or something that needs to be a guarded secret for cryin' out loud. It's a CAR. A car that costs MONEY. Your money and my money. I've screamed it before, and I'll scream it again and again until someone there wakes up. GIVE US SOME FACTS TO CHEW ON! :D
There, I feel better again. For now...
But is obviously deserving of yet another discussion by the number of posts that have appeared on this thread.
It's mid August now. I count 6 months if the car is released in mid-February. The problem is there has been no NEW information for those of us that may like to consider the options checklist, or the purchase of a special model.
Pshhh! They'd better be earlier! What do you think we've been doing besides waiting for a real announcement? The RX-8's 3rd iteration (RX-Evolve, Red concept, yellow concept) was unveiled in what month again? January or March? I don't remember that far back.
They are currently testing several RX-8s around the world, and have only seen fit to give the same old information over and over again to "news" sources like R&T? Come on already! :DBah! There is no company that has a right to hang on to my $500 for a year and not give me a friggin' promotional package of some sort that tells me what I may or may not be getting.
I'm not a Rockefeller y'know?I was personally promised that I would get the info from Mazda as soon as it was available. I have received NOTHING besides the tired old red RX-8 flyer with the tear off for more info (which I have sent in a few times and still received NOTHING BTW). The RX-8 CD I got on my own at the Auto Show. I end up providing info to the dealer my deposit is at because Mazda doesn't even make them aware of magazine articles.
This isn't the friggin' Holy Grail or something that needs to be a guarded secret for cryin' out loud. It's a CAR. A car that costs MONEY. Your money and my money. I've screamed it before, and I'll scream it again and again until someone there wakes up. GIVE US SOME FACTS TO CHEW ON! :D
There, I feel better again. For now...
08-14-2002, 12:28 AM
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The fact is pricing isn't hammered out until 5 months or so out, or less. dealerships don't know until 3 months or less. i'm a salesman at a mazda dealership and i am planning on buying a mazda 6, and I don't even know the price of them and we have some coming in november. plus the fact that i'm sure it'll be limited availibility for the first few months, so dealerships won't go through the allocation process like they do for most other cars, so dealerships might not know the exact price of the cars they're getting until the invoice is faxed to them the day it leaves the port of entry
08-14-2002, 06:55 AM
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i think i hit gold
hey guys,
as stated in a few other posts, i work for ford in germany. im just an intern now and only have a couple weeks of work left before i head home. when at work, i am able to brows through lots of intranet web pages that are not accessible from the outside. in addition to the ford intranet, i can also browse the mazda intranet. ive been trying to use this to our advantage to get some info on the rx8. most of the places ive searched within mazda have only resulted in japanese texts (which i saddly cant read) or else documents which are protected from the common ford employee with passwords and bla bla bla. however, today i found pay dirt.
ive put up a crappy website to post this info on, so feel free to take a look. i intend to take every article i can find from the intranet here and post it on this web page. you can find this info at www.geocities.com/rx8insider/ . i know you have to put up with the lamer geocites banner and stuff, along with my minimalist html abilities, but hey, at least its info! a lot of the info is the same ol' bull, but there is some new stuff there or at least some info that addresses questions posted on this forum. enjoy!
hamx0r
as stated in a few other posts, i work for ford in germany. im just an intern now and only have a couple weeks of work left before i head home. when at work, i am able to brows through lots of intranet web pages that are not accessible from the outside. in addition to the ford intranet, i can also browse the mazda intranet. ive been trying to use this to our advantage to get some info on the rx8. most of the places ive searched within mazda have only resulted in japanese texts (which i saddly cant read) or else documents which are protected from the common ford employee with passwords and bla bla bla. however, today i found pay dirt.
ive put up a crappy website to post this info on, so feel free to take a look. i intend to take every article i can find from the intranet here and post it on this web page. you can find this info at www.geocities.com/rx8insider/ . i know you have to put up with the lamer geocites banner and stuff, along with my minimalist html abilities, but hey, at least its info! a lot of the info is the same ol' bull, but there is some new stuff there or at least some info that addresses questions posted on this forum. enjoy!
hamx0r
08-14-2002, 11:14 AM
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08-14-2002, 11:49 AM
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Oooooh! Ooooh! :D
"Thanks to the efforts of a cross functional team of powertrain and production engineers, the Renesis will cost slightly less than a standard V6 engine, about US$2,000. The cost of the engine was contained because engineers used the existing RX-7 rotary, the 13B, as the base for the new rotary."
Full page: http://www.geocities.com/rx8insider/rotaryredux.html
Maybe it's not too late to remove the TII engine from my '85?
"Thanks to the efforts of a cross functional team of powertrain and production engineers, the Renesis will cost slightly less than a standard V6 engine, about US$2,000. The cost of the engine was contained because engineers used the existing RX-7 rotary, the 13B, as the base for the new rotary."
Full page: http://www.geocities.com/rx8insider/rotaryredux.html
Maybe it's not too late to remove the TII engine from my '85?
08-14-2002, 12:26 PM
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"Mazda Motor Corp may offer a high powered version of the RX-8, a RENESIS rotary powered car. The standard model's engine produces 184 kW at 8500 rpm. It will be released in early 2003. The tweaked version's powerplant, which may be a triple rotor engine, could deliver over 270 kW. The high powered model may be released in late 2003. Mazda plans to introduce the 6 MPS (Mazda Performance Series) at the 2002 Paris motor show. A 2.3L turbocharged engine powers the 6 MPS. Includes side photograph of the RX-8 and front three quarter photograph of the 6 MPS."
Possible "triple rotor engine"!!!
I think Mazda might actually be listening to us.
Edit: I just noticed that this was from an Australian Magazine....so it's probably not true.
Possible "triple rotor engine"!!!
I think Mazda might actually be listening to us.
Edit: I just noticed that this was from an Australian Magazine....so it's probably not true.
Last edited by WankelWannabe; 08-14-2002 at 12:40 PM.
08-14-2002, 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by BlueAdept
Speaking of Aprentice Adept.... did you know that there are now 7 books in that series...
I bet noone here knew that or has read them all...
Speaking of Aprentice Adept.... did you know that there are now 7 books in that series...
I bet noone here knew that or has read them all...
cheers.
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