Kaiser bun

iTrader: (2)

That sucks that you didnt have the stock one. If im not mistaken (which i may be, and if so could someone who knows more correct me), but they dont neccesairly think that the intake is whats malfunctioning, but may try to say that the intake is the reason the the engine is malfunctioning. They would then void the warranty claiming the intake caused the problems.

Like i said only if they are picky and dont feel like putting a new engine in for you will they do this. I have not run into this situation but from what i have read on mazdas site, they are pretty picky about aftermarket parts.

edit: and like ny said dont let them blame your intake, we all know thats not the problem but if they are in a bad mood they may try

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Update: Ok just got off the phone with the service rep...He said the CEL was an intake error saying there is a blockage. Basically they are blaming it on the AEM. They want me to put the stock intake back in it. I have the stock airbox so they want me to buy the other pieces necessary to install the stock intake. They also said that the spark plug wires are arcing...and want me to buy new wires. He never mentioned anything about a compression test or the engine. I brought up the hot start issues and how that has nothing to do with the intake and he agreed and said they have to see if the stock intake and new wires fix the stalling issues first and if there are still problems, "they would go from there"...He said that a compression test cost $300 to do because the RX8 is very complicated to do a compression test on compared to cylinder engines. --$300??? He did say they have replaced a couple RX8 engines at their dealer before.

I know this car will still have hot start issues after the new wires and stock intake... and I can't see myself spending $300 for them to tell me, yup the compression test failed, new engine...

I feel as though they noticed my car has 58k, and don't want to say "new engine" because then then I would get one for free, where as after 60k, the powertrain warranty is over and I would have to pay over $500 for the other engine parts needed to be installed...

What should I do?

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Jesus H Christ...So I get to the dealer, and the service rep was actually very nice. He said that the plug wires were arcing, and that they should be replaced before anything else. He also recommended I go back to the stock intake. I purchased the wires there and will install them myself tonight. I mentioned how my car is almost over the 60k powertrain warranty, and they guy looked at me with a blank face. I had to have him look it up because he denied there was a warranty still on my car with 58k.

After that, I expressed my concern that I don't wanna play "swap the parts" game and find out that the engine is bad after I go over 60k. He agreed and said I could have a compression test done for $280. If the test passed, meaning the engine is good, I lost $280 dollars. He said if the engine fails and I need a new engine, then Mazda would cover the engine and the compression test. He said that he doesn't think the engine is bad though because car never gave any Misfire codes, and the technicians did a test drive successfully. He then brought in a technician who thought he was the cats *** to ask if the AEM would affect a compression test. He said no. He then turned to me and said it is not your engine, it is your plug wires. "Are you trying to get a free engine out of this or something?" I looked at him and said, "If it is bad, the yes i am."
I tried to explain to him the hot starting problems with the excessive cranking, and he says how do I know what you mean by excessive cranking, I wasn't there. I don't know."!!!

So I ended up getting the wires, to see if they would solve the problem...

ON MY WAY HOME FROM THE DEALER: The car stalls in the middle of an intersection AGAIN, and then after cranking the engine 4 times for several seconds, it finally kicked on and I pulled into a parking lot, when I put the car in park, it stalled again! I called them up immediately and they said to just get home and change the wires and see what happens in the morning.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

The factory plug wires are NGK, very good quality. I've NEVER seen a set of stock NGK plug wires go bad on any rx8 or rx7. Ever, in 10 years. To "arc" it would require a cut in the wires or boots.

Bottom line, as Ive always said, the number one rule of rotary troubleshooting is COMPRESSION TEST. You should have taken it in there and said you suspect low compression, and specifically asked for a comp test. IF they want to charge you for it, fine...if it passes. IF it fails, then the comp test and the engine replacement should fall under warranty.

In my opinion, the only issues prone to cause stalling on this car are the engine compression, plugs, or gummed up throttle body blade. And the only issues likely to cause hard restarting are engine compression, coils, plugs, starter or battery.

You can use that information to make your own cross reference list.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE May 28th: So I replaced the plug wires, put back in stock Intake, and the car still stalled on me. Lost power with very very bad idling. Took it back to the dealer, had them do a compression test and check the CAT. They said the compression passed with 7.1 on the front rotor, and 7.6 on the rear rotor. He said that was above average. He also said the cat was clear and fine. They took it for 2 road tests and could not get it to stall. Said it rode like a champ.

I'm going to pick it up now. The only thing he said it could be now is a bad fuel pump. Now lets see if it will stall for me again lol. Any ideas guys?

Mazurfer

"In my opinion, the only issues prone to cause stalling on this car are the engine compression, plugs, or gummed up throttle body blade. And the only issues likely to cause hard restarting are engine compression, coils, plugs, starter or battery. "


RR.......not trying to pull your chain(and let's be clear..........it's not applicable in this case), but can't a clogged CAT give stalling issues?
I think I've seen it caused by faulty coil(s) as well under heated conditions.

Sorry for the threadjack Adam.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

I guess my statement was more geared toward "stalling at idle". Yes, I suppose a badly clogged cat could cause stalling (severe loss of power) at speed...as could coils or a fuel pump. But I'd call that "severe loss of power" and not "stalling" so I guess it depends on what your definition is.

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Am I missing something here. You have a 60,000 mile warranty on the "Powertrain". Yes.
But you have a 100.000 mile warranty on the engine block and all internal workings.


Might I suggest a Seafoam on the engine. I am curious as to your driving habits with the car. Do you drive in AT mode or in Sport/manual mode?

Generally the symptoms you describe are related to a bad engine/low compression. Did you ask to see the compression test results?

Mazurfer

Ahhhhhhhhh..........okay!

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

It is in AT mode. I usually don't drive it too much in manual mode. Yes the dealer gave me a copy of the results. They are in the car right now, but The standard for the front rotor was 830, minimum was 680. I had 710. The rear rotor was similar, just above the minimum, or "failing". So I did not fail the compression test. The car only loses power, or stalls, when I am idling. And it is only after the cra has heated up for awhile. I know it is about to stall, when the rpms go from a smooth 900 to a rough 600 down to a really rough 400, then boom. Nothing. Then I have to let it cool for at least 20 min before it will start again.

The dealer wants me to try to bring it in when it starts acting up so they can connect a computer to the car and monitor it as it stalls...It is hard to guess when it will happen though. Also when the car is put into park the rpms fluctuate between 500 and 900 really fast.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Also, just ordered the BHR fuel pump upgrade. When I get it, I will install it and see if that fixes my stalling issues. ....

Easy_E1

iTrader: (2)

Try driving it in Manual mode for a while. This is a rotary so it's not afraid of rpm's. Drive it up to 5000 rpm before you shift into the next gear. Take it to the redline getting on the freeway a couple times. Do this for a couple days if possible and see if it gets more noticeably better or worse.
You can build up carbon by driving in Auto mode. Lets try and get rid of some of that.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

I will do this...Thanks.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Drove the car from work in Manual mode the whole way home, shifting between 5k and 6k RPM. Car did not stall on me. It was only a 10 min drive, and it usually takes about 25 min of driving before the idle takes a dive and car stalls...I will seafoam the car tomorrow on my day off as I wait for the BHR fuel pump...The only other thing I forgot to mention, was the dealer said they had an error with the VDI...The error was not there the other times I brought the car in with this problem, and he thinks the error could have been tripped by the stalling itself and trying the excessive cranking to get it to start afterwards.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

OK, Just finished the seafoam process. All I can say is there was twice as much smoke than any other seafoam smoke video I have seen on here. It was ridiculous...The car stalled twice while I was revving it up and down to clear the smoke.

After the smoke was clear I took it out for a spin and the car felt a lot better, and smoother. After driving it for 5 min, I took it back home, and the car stalled again when I had it idling right before I turned it off. Tried restarting it, and it just cranked like usual. I cleaned the MAF and pumped the brake 20 times to clear whatever that clears, and now I just have it cooling down.

-So, the car is still stalling with a very rough idle after the seafoam. Same exact symptoms as before. Rpms "hunt" between 600 and 1000 while the car is in park, and will eventually stall after idling for a few seconds like that.

-Fuel pump is coming in the mail next week, maybe that is the problem? I don't know what else.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

I guess it is possible that a fuel pump could cause your stalling at idle after it gets hot...if you had means to measure fuel pressure then you could find out for sure. Normally though, lack of fuel pressure will show while driving at speed under load, and not at idle...it takes very little fuel to idle, so even if a pump is only working 50% the idle should remain unchanged.

Have you checked or cleaned your throttle body yet? I have seen some nasty THICK buildup where the plate meets the body. The plate is set from the factory with a given clearance to the body, allowing a given amount of air through the crack, this air is necessary for a steady idle. When the carbon from intake reversion, and oil from the crankcase ventilation/overflow hoses get spit into the intake, it forms a pretty thick gunk that fills in much of the factory clearance/crack, allowing less air in, and causing issues idling. The drive by wire throttle cars (such as my denali, and the rx8) are more so suceptible to this in my experience. When I bought my truck it had 67k miles and it idled rough and hunted until I took the TB off and media blasted the inside of it to bare metal again, and it's been perfect ever since. I usually do this for the rx8s that I work on as well. Even if you just use sandpaper and carb cleaner, it is effectively free to do, very easy since it is right on top, and let's face it...it won't make anything worse.

So I would like to see fuel pressure checked when the stalling condition occurs, and also the throttle body cleaned to bare metal between the blade and body.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Ok, thanks I will look at the throttle body tomorrow...Also I did notice today, the car was very hesitant to accelerate in 3rd gear around 40mph. I would push the pedal down and the car did not want to accelerate past 40 mph. It was like i was driving some crappy car that had no power behind it....

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE: 6/7: ok, the car seems to be running better, it still will lose rpms and stall if I drive it awhile and it gets hot, but not all the time now. My problem is that I keep getting an annoying p2096 CEL code which is a system too lean bank 1 before catalyst. Could this be the o2 sensor? Could a faulty o2 sensor cause stalling and rpms drops when the engine gets hot? I have not installed my new fuel pump yet.

kalne

iTrader: (1)

I am having similar symptoms. When the car is completely warmed up and has been driven for at least 25-30 minutes, the car will idle very low (approx. 600-700 rpm) and may or may not stall when in neutral at a stop. I have a 6 sp manual transmission, and the engine has 88,000 miles on it now, and had 84k when I bought it 3 months ago.

I have not tested to see if temperature plays any affect (driving for 30 or more minutes on a cool night to see if I can replicate it), nor does this seem to happen every time I drive. I do believe it has been in mid afternoon on warm days the couple of times it has stalled on me, but I haven't kept a diary log of it or anything. And once it stalls, it's going to stall all day until whatever variable is changed and the issue is temporarily relieved.

Based on the information from this forum, I ordered new plugs, wires, and coils to start my troubleshooting journey. I figure I need new ones anyways since I have no idea when the previous owner(s) changed them last. Everything should be here by tomorrow and I should have them put on by the end of the week.

I hope we can both get this fixed, I am concerned with wtf is going on

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Yes, and it hasn't been a common problem but maybe it is becoming one.

kalne

iTrader: (1)

I also wanted to note that when the A/C is on, and I am experiencing these conditions, it is almost like asking for the engine to stall when you stop at that light or traffic stop.

Turning off the A/C, for me, has always fixed the stalling issue I was experiencing at that moment. However, it will still continue to idle very rough and at a very low rpm range (~500/600-700).

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Has anyone here tried drilling a SMALL hole in the throttle blade? About 1/16" or so should do the trick, at least initially. I've heard of some of the LS v8 crowd doing this when they do a cam install or some other mod that results in a rough idle, on the cars with the DBW/non adjustable throttlebodies. The PCM will try to correct for the extra airflow to a degree, but it may be just enough of a tweak to help you. And, if it doesnt work, a tiny dab of sealant or jb stick-weld on that hole will return you to stock.

kalne

iTrader: (1)

Your theory of a clogged throttle body seems very likely to be the cause. I am going to take it off and clean it and report back. Thank you

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Yes, my problems are ONLY when the car heats up around 5pm on hot days. It drives fine at all other times. I am only getting a p2096 CEL...I have an auto, so I'm never in neutral, but it will happen in drive and park. Yesterday it happened again, the rpms pumped really fast between 500 and 700 and the car shook and vibrated. I have no idea why it does this only when it is hot. When I turn my AC on, the rpms actually increase and stabalize in my case...how much is an o2 sensor for bank 1? Any DIY out there? I'm getting very frustrated with this car. I feel like an idiot inbtraffic when my car stalls. I would just like the dealer to fix it but I don't have the money they are going to charge me for all the tests...

Only things left I can think of are:
vacuum leak
fuel pump
o2 sensor

my throttle body opening is very clean from what I saw.

adamci24

iTrader: (2)

Kalne, if this helps you out let me know exactly how you took it apart and cleaned it. We are obviously having the EXACT same problems...it puzzles me why it only happens from 3pm-5pm on hot days. I'm in buffalo, so it is not very humid, but it seems like the air density at that time of day is affecting something with the intake and sensors, because my car has stalled over 5 times, only at that time of day.