Aspire705

So I made some comments in another thread asking why Mazda doesn't add a 3rd rotor & direct injection tech to the Renesis, but didn't get many responses. So I decided to repost most of the same questions in a separate thread to see if I'll get more replies.

Btw, I am a newb to this forum so plz bear that in mind when the urge to flame & ostracize arises.

It's been stated that increased production costs & emissions are likely 2 of the biggest hurdles preventing Mazda from making such improvements to the Renesis, so I ask you. Does anyone see any other reasons why we should be denied a 20B, or at the very least 13B, DI rotary? Even if it only comes on the Mazdaspeed 8 (if they ever make 1, instead of the "Mazdakit 8s" they've been making so far). Btw...I loooovve that word to describe the wannabe MS8s we've been getting thus far...kudos to the person who coined it!

Any intelligent & sincere responses are appreciated.

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Like fending off a pack of wolves with a spork.

zoom44

they are showing a direct injection renesis at the shows this year. 3 rotor is not the direction they are looking for more power. The current 3rotor engines available will not meet emissions regs and will suck gas in larger quantities then they would like to have in a production car - even limited production. a 3 rotor renesis isnt going to happen - port configuration being the engineering hurdle. im not going to explain that here as you can find other threads that already discuss that.

The Mazdaspeed RX-8s that have been sold in Japan are built in limited runs with legitimate handling and power improvements as well as aero. "WE" havent been getting any MS RX-8s in the states yet.

RotaryManiac

what power improvements?

zoom44

the first Mazdaspeed in japan had something done with the intake track to "retune" it for more power or throttle response in the lower rpms. plus the freer flowing mazdaspeed exhaust.

Aspire705

roflmao... I hear ya, but isn't that just like any other forum tho?

Aspire705

Which shows?? This year or early next year? What direction are they looking into for more power? That 15B "wide rotor" design I've read about on here, FI, somethin else?

How similar are the current 3r engines to the Renesis? How do they compare emissions & fuel economy wise? Aren't they mainly 'less clean' & 'more thirsty' because of their race setups?? Or are you talking about production based 3r designs?

Wouldn't a mass production factory tuned 3r be much more eco/fuel friendly than say a race version would (assuming of course that you are talking about a race-version 3r rotary 2 begin w/)?

What's wrong w/ the port configuration? You mean that of the 3r race rotary, or a production version? Why couldn't they use virtually the same port config. as the current Renesis but w/ the addition of another rotor &/or DI?

Care to point me in the direction of a couple specific threads on that? I'd luv 2 read more about it w/out spending 2 much time QQn 4 the exact examples you're referring to. Thanx much!

Aspire705

First? How many have they had? Is it still being made?

zoom44

they already showed it at Tokyo and it will show at Detroit and probably NY and LA

search for 3 rotor renesis and you can find most of those things talked about in depth.

zoom44

oh and you need to know why the ports are the way they are in the Renesis. find a yamaguchi book.

there have been 2 mazdaspeed editions. they are/were limited production so no they are not still made. that's the point of limited production. but you CAN buy most of the parts.

Aspire705

Sorry I missed it, but I can't find anything on it online. I've already tried this link: http://www.tokyo-motorshow.com/show/...10_Mazda.shtml & didn't see anything about a MS8. Care to assist me?

You mean they already showed it @ Tokyo this year & they'll show it @ Detroit, NY & prolly LA next year?

So they already showed a DI rotary @ Tokyo huh? And the posts/discussion on that will come up when I search for 3r Renesis? Ok thanx.

Aspire705

Oh, I'm not questioning why they are the way they are, I'm just asking wut's wrong w/ them cuz you said they (port configuration) are the engineering hurdle.

You have any favorites (yamaguchi books) you'd recommend?

Glyphon

not sure if this is what zoom is referring to, but to those who have mucked around inside renesis, it would seem that improving flow through the exhaust ports is one of the areas that could produce significant improvements for the renesis.

Glyphon

yeah, the one on the rx8

Aspire705

^^ Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't that only be funny if there were only 1 yamaguchi book written on the rotary? In which case, shouldn't you be laughin @ zoom44 for saying "find a yamaguchi book" instead of "find the yamaguchi book"? Right or wrong?

Not sure but I think they have a name for what jus happened 2 you. >> Glyphon

Glyphon

that was directed at you. still feel the same way

oh, and as far as i know, there is only one yamaguchi book on the rx8. books on other versions of the 13b wouldn't help out at all in regards to the ports since they were completely redesigned for the renesis.

Aspire705

I kno that was directed at me but apparently you misunderstood what I wrote. How can you crack jokes on me, when my question to zoom was directed at which "1" book to read when he said "a" instead of "the".

If he said read "the" yamaguchi book, your joke may have been somewhat funny, but he didn't. He said find "a" yamaguchi book. Implying there was more than 1 to choose from.
Therefore, me asking him which 1 book he recommends can only be interpreted as stupid/laughable by someone who's a little lacking in the ol' noodle upstairs. I rest my case! I'll waste no more web space defending my question & questioning your dubious sense of humor. You're wrong, not funny & not worth the effort.

Wanna read it again? Here:
Even if there really is only 1 yamaguchi book on the RX8, the mistake would lie w/ his choice of words. Not w/ my response to them.

Nice try, but go pick on some1 more your speed. (No offense intended.) But it's people like you who deter & discourage open & intelligent discussion on chat forums by people wanting to learn more by asking questions.

zoom44

what part dont you understand- if you want to read about direct injection and i said they showed it at this past tokyo show why would i want you to search for DI information using 3 rotor? search for direct injection and tokyo.

if you look for books by jack yamaguchi you will find he only wrote one that has to do with the Renesis- look for that one. how does that make me or glyphon owned?

you need to understand why the ports are the way they are on a 2 rotor renesis in order to understand why the current 3 rotor port configurations wont work for a production car and why it would be difficult to configure them like they are on the 2 rotor renesis.

Aspire705

^I never said it makes you owned. Where did you see that? Maybe the ^ means something diff. than I meant it to or maybe I put too many but I was only referring to Glyphon.

He's owned because he's crackin on me asking you which book you recommend when you implied there's more than 1 by saying "a" instead of "the" to signify the only 1 written.

That's all. Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers but he started the e-pissing contest not I.

Glyphon

lol...you're just upset you're attempt at grammatical humor fell flat on its face.

ask a noob question (even in jest) and you get an answer fit for the (typical) noob.
or should i say "a noob" as to not single any of the noobs out

zoom44

he answered your question witht he correct answer but with a little sarcasm- thats hardly starting anything- lighten up. if sarcasm bothers you - you dont really want me in your thread.

i was deliberatly vague and will continue to be so. im hoping you will take the bits i give you and then search for more answers on your own. if you had searched for yamaguchi after i posted it you would have found what i was refering to.

Glyphon

probably from this...

the way that you used the quoting, it looks like you were saying that it was zoom that was owned.

but alas, we are getting off topic, and this thread will need to be moved to the lounge. then you'll really meet some people who deter and discourage open conversation. btw, which i never did. i answered the question you asked, quickly and susinctly. you asked a sarcastic question, and it seems to have blown up in your face when you got a sarcastic (yet accurate) answer in return.

Aspire705

Now that I understand. Thanx.

But note that I was asking why the current 2 rotor Renesis port configurations couldn't/wouldn't work for a production 3 rotor.

I never cared or asked why the current 3 rotor's pcs wouldn't work on a production car. I only asked: to clarify if you were talking about why the current 3r pcs wouldn't work on a 3r race version rotary or a production 3r. That's all.

Aspire705

Yours is the only humor that fell flat on its face, as I wasn't trying to be funny. Only accurate.

Who's upset? I was merely pointing out that you came across more ignorant and offensive than sarcastic.

Aspire705

I never said he was "starting anything up", only that he sounds like the type to do so. And my weight is just fine thank you. Even if that were true "you dont really want me in your thread", I'm not exactly sure what could be done about it are you? Care to share? j/p

Nehow...I'm just expressing the view that maybe some people can do w/ out the overwrought attempt at humor esp. when it borders on excessive sarcasm.

But for your attempt at answering my question Glyphon, thanks! Even tho it did come across as a bit rude more than anything else. But if that wasn't your intent, my apologies to you.

Hey, I've got no probs w/ showing tough love to the newb. Most of us could benefit from spending more time searching the forum than asking questions.

My point is that I shouldn't be "laughed at" for asking a strange/seemingly stupid question, when I wasn't the 1 who made the grammatical mistake that gave rise to the question in the first place. Also, that the sarcasm should be directed at the originator of the mistake & not anyone who replied to it.

You may be right in saying that if I'd searched for yamaguchi after you posted it, I would have found what you were referring to. But even that remark is more of an excuse to disregard your minor error in grammar, than it is a valid reason to poke fun at the person who replied to it.

In any case, there's a good lesson to be learned from all this & I appreciate the knowledge that comes w/. Thanx to all who've replied w/ sincerity & courtesy w/ respects to helpin the new guy.