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Why this car is so much fun

Old 03-28-2006, 07:16 PM
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Why this car is so much fun

1. Going around the big roundabout in downtown Hollywood (FL) with all 4 tires slipping, tail hanging out, bow pointed into the turn.

2. Stuffing a 70 pound tube amp, a 30 pound preamp, a CDPlayer, a power distro box and a case of CDs in the trunk, plus 2 sixpacks of beer and 1/2 case of bordeaux, then stuffing two huge Klipsch Fortes in the rear seats.. and still drives with the trunk shut (no redneck trunk-locking devices needed) and the windows rolled up. Plus you look pimp when you get to the party yo, not like some redneck with twine holding our ***** together.

3. After discovering a new route to work involving 4 dollars toll each day, finally hearing your engine siiiiinnnng coming out of tollbooths, and cruising at 90.. feels like an airplane. While the poor schleps in I-95 creep along in 2nd gear. Drinking a latte and visualizing, prioritizing and conceptualizing on the phone, no doubt. It is then that I remember, while I'm cruising along at illegal speeds, that this is what driving once felt like, when there were less cars and less ******** on the road.

4. Watching the sunlight dance on the hood's rotary design.

5. The chirruping idle bouncing off the drive-through, waiting for my b-fast. The idle no boinger can ever, ever duplicate.

6. The completely nonplussed way it can pass traffic, say, going 70.. go into left lane, depress pedal, go past the guy who was in front of you, go right, no fuss, no muss, no hystrionics. Want to pass with way more snap? Double-clutched, rev-matched 2 or 3 cog downshift.. get engine to 6 or 7k rpm.. floor it.. zoom zoom, indeed. Headlights become pinpricks, then memories.

7. The way the strakes highlight the lines of the car, giving it a certain old-school sense of bling. Speelines, as it were, like in cart00ns. Something rarely seen today.. style.

8. Radio off, windows down, roof open, sun setting, car following the (sadly) gentle curves of A1A on a Sunday.

9. Ferrari drivers give *you* the thumbs up. You give 'em the old "spin 'er up" hand signal and point to your ear -- they oblige -- Concerto for V-12 and Two Rotors.

10. The way Black Cherry explodes when sunlight hits it.

11. The feeling one gets, looking back at her after locking up, walking away, that people in this world had, for the most part, forgotten how to make cars like this. For the longest time, all that was available to the person of moderate means was.. soapbars, boxes and jelly beans, devoid of character, of soul, of fire. Then you realize...

12. You get to drive her again tomorrow morning

Last edited by missinmahseven; 03-28-2006 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:19 PM
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direct response to the other thread i assume
9. Ferrari drivers give *you* the thumbs up. You give 'em the old "spin 'er up" hand signal and point to your ear -- they oblige -- Concerto for V-12 and Two Rotors.
somehow i doubt that ever happens :|
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:23 PM
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These are all poetic, and so is the car. Brought a smile to my face
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cjkim
direct response to the other thread i assume

somehow i doubt that ever happens :|
Has happened to me here, even in the Miata. Some of those ferraris are even driven by non stuffed-shirt- rich-********. Just regular folk who love cars.

One of 'em was a silver 365 GTB. I just about cracked my neck on the doubletake. At first I had thought it was a 240Z : Then I heared six twinchokes sucking in air. That's no Z.
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by djseto
Well said, BUT triple synchros remove the need to double-clutch---thats just being a showoff and wasting shifting time.
Uhhh, did you see Fast and the Furious? If Dom says you should double clutch, you should.
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Old 03-28-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
Uhhh, did you see Fast and the Furious? If Dom says you should double clutch, you should.
word
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by djseto
Well said, BUT triple synchros remove the need to double-clutch---thats just being a showoff and wasting shifting time.
Um..

Going from 6th to 3rd at 70 is a really bad time to not be double-clutching. You'll likely grenade something. Just my two cents, mind you.. your car, your gearbox, your cash. Something that bad will not be covered under warranty.

Synchros are not meant to deal with repeated downshifting. (ask any old Alfa driver about the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros).

It's not showing off. It's simply reducing wear and tear on the box and clutch to negligible levels. When I trade or sell, hopefully 200,000 miles from now, that car will still have the original clutch, and I'll have the 1500 bucks or whatever it takes to fix it still in my pocket.

And lastly... once you get the hang of it, and become proficient at it.. it's faster to do it blipped and matched than just ramming the shifter into the next lower gear.

You're gonna blow something up, man.. lemme guess.. you do clutch dumps too? To get the times everyone loves to brag about? Y'know.. spin it to 6000 or 7000, drop the clutch?

That'll break your pilot and / or throwout bearing. Maybe not now, not this month or next, nor this year.. but eventually that bearing will get back at you for all the clutch dumps. That one I learned with my Miata. And with my Rx7. Won't make same mistake with this one. She's too pretty.

There's no need to beat up the car to get her to perform. None.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but just can't belive what I read in your post. No offense meant, okkay?
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:11 PM
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I think you're confusing double clutching with rev matching.

Also, this thread isn't nearly as much fun as the kinda sorta fun thread so I find the title misleading.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
I think you're confusing double clutching with rev matching.

Also, this thread isn't nearly as much fun as the kinda sorta fun thread so I find the title misleading.
agreed, double clutching isn't just a blip-shift...
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
I think you're confusing double clutching with rev matching.

Also, this thread isn't nearly as much fun as the kinda sorta fun thread so I find the title misleading.
The car's fun, I never advertised the thread. NO REFUND FOR YOU!

As for confusion, clutch in, gear out, clutch out, gas blip or two, clutch in, gear in clutch out, right foot all the way down. That'd be a double-clutched rev-match'd downshift, ne?

One Double-clutched, rev-matched downshift to go!

Would you like a set of plug wires wit dat?
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:20 PM
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I wish I knew how to drive a manual. I mean, I want to be cool, but all this rev-matching, throwout bearing, throttle blip, double clutch, $1500 repair fee crap is just too much. I mean, I barely make it home from work without maiming myself or bystanders. How the hell am I deal with that and try and shift myself?

I should learn, but damn, I am really lazy.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by missinmahseven
The car's fun, I never advertised the thread. NO REFUND FOR YOU!

As for confusion, clutch in, gear out, clutch out, gas blip or two, clutch in, gear in clutch out, right foot all the way down. That'd be a double-clutched rev-match'd downshift, ne?

One Double-clutched, rev-matched downshift to go!

Would you like a set of plug wires wit dat?
That's 100%, completely, totally, absolutely, not needed. In a car with synchros there's no need for all that and you're just doing more harm than good when compared to a properly rev matched downshift.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
That's 100%, completely, totally, absolutely, not needed. In a car with synchros there's no need for all that and you're just doing more harm than good when compared to a properly rev matched downshift.
Then enlighten me. How's a properly rev matched downshift go? Now, think about the scenario: I'm doing 70 in top gear. I have 2 choices -- to 4th, or to 3rd. If I mess up going into 4th is not too bad.. due to gearing, if I screw up 6 to 3 at 70, I'm gonna be picking up pieces of gearbox for the next few hundred yards. So given that scenario, how'd a properly executed rev-matched downshift go?

(No, really, I"m asking for real. I learned on a series 1 xke with a crashbox! Synchros are a luxury to me.)

BTW, the plug wires are getting cold. You want 'em or what?
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
I wish I knew how to drive a manual. I mean, I want to be cool, but all this rev-matching, throwout bearing, throttle blip, double clutch, $1500 repair fee crap is just too much. I mean, I barely make it home from work without maiming myself or bystanders. How the hell am I deal with that and try and shift myself?

I should learn, but damn, I am really lazy.
Been meaning to tell you..

domo-kun is the shiznit.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by missinmahseven
Then enlighten me. How's a properly rev matched downshift go? Now, think about the scenario: I'm doing 70 in top gear. I have 2 choices -- to 4th, or to 3rd. If I mess up going into 4th is not too bad.. due to gearing, if I screw up 6 to 3 at 70, I'm gonna be picking up pieces of gearbox for the next few hundred yards. So given that scenario, how'd a properly executed rev-matched downshift go?

(No, really, I"m asking for real. I learned on a series 1 xke with a crashbox! Synchros are a luxury to me.)

BTW, the plug wires are getting cold. You want 'em or what?
I don't understand. If you downshift from 6-3 at that speed what happens when you do the double cluctch business? What about if you don't? Don't people occasionaly shift into the wrong gear? Won't the rev limiter thing kick in and everything be square? Enlighten me.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:33 PM
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You can double clutch it or you can rev match it, if you dont do either and go 6 to 3 you'll either damage the tranny or recieve a BIG jolt..

I tend to double clutch out of habit, i can't get a smooth rev-matched shift most of the time.
:
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:33 PM
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I always double-clutch. Except when I heel and toe. I got use to it. But i've never gone from 6th to 3rd.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
I don't understand. If you downshift from 6-3 at that speed what happens when you do the double cluctch business? What about if you don't? Don't people occasionaly shift into the wrong gear? Won't the rev limiter thing kick in and everything be square? Enlighten me.
Hangon, trying to remember my own damn car. OK, 70 to 3rd should be OK, but just so. You'll have 2000 more twists to play with. THin but usable, great for extra oomph.

There goes my little scenario. You broke it!

To do what I had envisioned (picking up gearbox pieces along the side of the road) at 70.. you'd need to land in 2nd. As soon as that clutch bites.. no rev limiter will save you. The force from the gearbox will be enough to send that engine past 10,000. Which it may survive. Or it may not. The limiter *will* cut the engine -- but the wheels will continue to spin the engine, through the gearbox.

But I don't wanna find out what the ultimate rev limit on this engine is. Not with my lump anyway ;o)

Damn. All this car talk's made me hungry (!) and made me want to see a car flick..hmm.. gumball rally will do.

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Old 03-28-2006, 08:37 PM
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Before getting into any of this double clutch stuff, ask yourself why you're downshifting in the first place...... to get more power out of the engine. Then go look at a dyno and see the power curve, and how flat and lovely it is for this car.

You'd be far better off to shift into 4th and just step on it, than shift into 3rd with your fancy footwork and get an extra 5hp from it. DD'ing was invented waaaay back in the days of British roadsters which were woefully underpowered and needed it, in order to squeeze as much as possible from the engine. Nowadays with virtually flat power bands, it is simply not necessary, especially on highways with speed limits.

It's a pity you felt the need to show off and be a snob about it, because the other stuff you wrote was quite poetic and right on the money.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:40 PM
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from 6th to 4th still requrires a rev match.. but it's MUCH faster in in 3rd.. If you HAVE to pass that guy cruising next to you at 80mph in a heartbeat..
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ALP22
Before getting into any of this double clutch stuff, ask yourself why you're downshifting in the first place...... to get more power out of the engine. Then go look at a dyno and see the power curve, and how flat and lovely it is for this car.

You'd be far better off to shift into 4th and just step on it, than shift into 3rd with your fancy footwork and get an extra 5hp from it. DD'ing was invented waaaay back in the days of British roadsters which were woefully underpowered and needed it, in order to squeeze as much as possible from the engine. Nowadays with virtually flat power bands, it is simply not necessary, especially on highways with speed limits.

It's a pity you felt the need to show off and be a snob about it, because the other stuff you wrote was quite poetic and right on the money.
*siiiigh*

6-4 is my preferred way of doing it, if I have to downshift (I prefer not to, actually, to pull of a leisurely pass.) But wether it is 6-4, or 6-3, or 2-1, or whatever, I tend to do it the same way every time, because that's the way the car feels happiest.

To me, the car (any car, really) doesn't feel happy with me ramming the shifter from one gear to the next lower gear letting the synchros handle it. It feels like it's gonna break. I don't like the feeling, so I fall back on what I was taught.

As to speed limits... this is South Florida. You'll be roadkill. And we have no torque anyway. <--- NOTE -- supposed to be a humorous tounge-in-cheek at the 'no power' crowd. I guess now we need disclaimers in our posts for humor.

I wasn't intending to be a snob, okkay? Were I a snob I'd wear a folex and drive a Benz and laugh at mazdas, but I don't. Have you read how many folks in this very forum have lunched their gearboxes? Ever sat to think why? Maybe they were asking too much of the box. The way I do it, the car's happy, I'm happy, my wallet's happy, but my service manager is miserable 'cause all he sees my car for is oil changes.

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Old 03-28-2006, 09:56 PM
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ALP, do you even have one of these? Was thinking about what you said, and it struck me that you perhaps think the 8 is like a v8 or something. This car absolutely has to be spanked without mercy to get it to boogie, and that is where the fun is. Because you have to flog it. It loves it. It's super, buttery-smooth doing it.

It is no different than those archaic, underpowered British cars of the 50's and 60's. And that's why those old rusbucket rolling blackouts oilburners were sooooo much fun! You *had* to flog 'em.

Since you're gonna bring out a dyno chart, okkay. Well, let's see -- yup, flat torque allright. Flat as a ruler, almost.

But damn, what's that?! The HP is flat -- but not RPM wise. It's almost ruler flat, but it's almost a straight line from 0 to the redline. Oh wow. Now we gotta shift if we want power to the wheels. *that* is where the smooth power delivery vs. a torquemonster's power delivery comes from. NOT the flat torque. There's no spike in either trace, so it's smoooooth sailing under any pedal pressure.

You call me a snob. I'll say this in return:

Numbers mean squat. When it comes down to it, numbers mean squat. Real car guys know that, real hi-fi guys know that, real camera guys know that, real aircraft people know that. It's all down to how it works, and how it feels while it's doing so.

So I'll say this: Those who spew numbers and charts and timeslips and magazine 1/4 mile tests are the snobs. They get a little info from the web or from some rag, and think it's gospel.

Then they post it here, where others pick up on it, and all of a sudden this is the worst car evah.

Your dyno chart wasn't of much use, was it? *crumple* *toss*

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Old 03-29-2006, 10:02 PM
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This thread kinda sorta sucks.
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