What would YOU do to it?
11-05-2010, 12:06 PM
#27
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Yeah, some of the knockoff stuff is of questionable fitment or quality, and it does take some work to make it fit.
A lot of the problem with the japanese performance/modification industry is that the legitimate "authentic" parts are usually not a lot better. These companies give two ***** about people in north america, and some of them choose not to sell to us at all. If they do they will usually not speak with buyers directly, only the few dealers they have chosen to deal with. They take months to deliver the product after charging astronomical prices and then you still do not get all the hardware and accessories needed to do the install. Fitment is usually still off by quite a bit and there are never any instructions or suggestions for installing the parts. You will receive no support from the manufacturer in most cases.
So take all the JDM bandwagon advice with a grain of salt please. When the "authentic" manufacturers behave this way and release products in this state, I have no problem with the chinese undercutting them or with using those parts. There will always be elitists on the internet talking the big **** about staying away from knockoffs, "doing it right", and so forth, but when it comes down to it you can build your car with twice the mods with the same money as the guy who spent 3 grand on an "authentic" body kit and 3 more grand on rays/volk/whatever elitist brand wheels, and nobody but other internet JDM elitists will really know the difference or care that much.
Oh, and see what your insurance has to say about replacing that $3k body kit or set of rims if it gets stolen or damaged.
11-05-2010, 12:33 PM
#28
Registered
my Spidey senses are telling me something.
I see the letters LA
Give me a sec, the picture is becoming more clearer
Langu
LANGUAGE!!!! Language barrier.
I can tell you being half japanese and lived in okinawa for 17 years, there is not many people who can speak english there. I am pretty sure that is the reason why they dont speak to the buyer , they cant speak english. So to avoid that strange long sound of silence over the phone , they speak a few select vendors. That is what my common sense told me.
Last edited by alfy28; 11-05-2010 at 12:36 PM.
11-05-2010, 12:56 PM
#29
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Well thank you everybody for commenting. I will do what feels right when I have the money. But the side markers and parking lights will be the first things done.
11-05-2010, 01:16 PM
#30
You guys saying this must have never dealt with "expensive" or "authentic" japanese body or performance parts.
Yeah, some of the knockoff stuff is of questionable fitment or quality, and it does take some work to make it fit.
A lot of the problem with the japanese performance/modification industry is that the legitimate "authentic" parts are usually not a lot better. These companies give two ***** about people in north america, and some of them choose not to sell to us at all. If they do they will usually not speak with buyers directly, only the few dealers they have chosen to deal with. They take months to deliver the product after charging astronomical prices and then you still do not get all the hardware and accessories needed to do the install. Fitment is usually still off by quite a bit and there are never any instructions or suggestions for installing the parts. You will receive no support from the manufacturer in most cases.
So take all the JDM bandwagon advice with a grain of salt please. When the "authentic" manufacturers behave this way and release products in this state, I have no problem with the chinese undercutting them or with using those parts. There will always be elitists on the internet talking the big **** about staying away from knockoffs, "doing it right", and so forth, but when it comes down to it you can build your car with twice the mods with the same money as the guy who spent 3 grand on an "authentic" body kit and 3 more grand on rays/volk/whatever elitist brand wheels, and nobody but other internet JDM elitists will really know the difference or care that much.
Oh, and see what your insurance has to say about replacing that $3k body kit or set of rims if it gets stolen or damaged.
Yeah, some of the knockoff stuff is of questionable fitment or quality, and it does take some work to make it fit.
A lot of the problem with the japanese performance/modification industry is that the legitimate "authentic" parts are usually not a lot better. These companies give two ***** about people in north america, and some of them choose not to sell to us at all. If they do they will usually not speak with buyers directly, only the few dealers they have chosen to deal with. They take months to deliver the product after charging astronomical prices and then you still do not get all the hardware and accessories needed to do the install. Fitment is usually still off by quite a bit and there are never any instructions or suggestions for installing the parts. You will receive no support from the manufacturer in most cases.
So take all the JDM bandwagon advice with a grain of salt please. When the "authentic" manufacturers behave this way and release products in this state, I have no problem with the chinese undercutting them or with using those parts. There will always be elitists on the internet talking the big **** about staying away from knockoffs, "doing it right", and so forth, but when it comes down to it you can build your car with twice the mods with the same money as the guy who spent 3 grand on an "authentic" body kit and 3 more grand on rays/volk/whatever elitist brand wheels, and nobody but other internet JDM elitists will really know the difference or care that much.
Oh, and see what your insurance has to say about replacing that $3k body kit or set of rims if it gets stolen or damaged.
Don't be mislead by his like of replica companies. They aren't all as good as authentic. There are instances when the phrase "you get what you pay for" applies. I'm not saying that replicas are always bad, but they're more likely to be worse than the authentic.
The point still stands... even with a replica, it's probably out of his price range to buy a body kit, have it painted and fitted properly.
11-05-2010, 01:49 PM
#31
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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my Spidey senses are telling me something.
I see the letters LA
Give me a sec, the picture is becoming more clearer
Langu
LANGUAGE!!!! Language barrier.
I can tell you being half japanese and lived in okinawa for 17 years, there is not many people who can speak english there. I am pretty sure that is the reason why they dont speak to the buyer , they cant speak english. So to avoid that strange long sound of silence over the phone , they speak a few select vendors. That is what my common sense told me.
I see the letters LA
Give me a sec, the picture is becoming more clearer
Langu
LANGUAGE!!!! Language barrier.
I can tell you being half japanese and lived in okinawa for 17 years, there is not many people who can speak english there. I am pretty sure that is the reason why they dont speak to the buyer , they cant speak english. So to avoid that strange long sound of silence over the phone , they speak a few select vendors. That is what my common sense told me.
11-05-2010, 02:04 PM
#32
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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I think you're going a little overboard here. The fact of the matter is that in some cases, the replica is much worse than the authentic kit and more difficult to fit. It's much rarer to find a replica of higher quality and better fitment. Typically, the well known brands have better production processes and quality control than replicas as well. Since these are just body parts for appearance, it's not a huge issue, but I've seen people screwed on some replica parts as a result of poor quality control.
Don't be mislead by his like of replica companies. They aren't all as good as authentic. There are instances when the phrase "you get what you pay for" applies. I'm not saying that replicas are always bad, but they're more likely to be worse than the authentic.
The point still stands... even with a replica, it's probably out of his price range to buy a body kit, have it painted and fitted properly.
Don't be mislead by his like of replica companies. They aren't all as good as authentic. There are instances when the phrase "you get what you pay for" applies. I'm not saying that replicas are always bad, but they're more likely to be worse than the authentic.
The point still stands... even with a replica, it's probably out of his price range to buy a body kit, have it painted and fitted properly.
..
.....
No?
Okay then. What I did have in mind is that yes, sometimes replicas are of shitty fitment and quality. Other times they are pretty much equivalent to the authentic, which was not all that great to begin with.
The front lip I have on my car, is a replica of the R-Magic. That thing costs several hundred dollars by the time it hits your door. You're going to have to talk to multiple vendors trying to track down someone who can even get it for you. Then it will take weeks or MONTHS after you pay that vendor, for them to actually get it for you. Then it may or may not be of great fitment. It may or may not (most likely not) come with necessary hardware and instructions to install, and if it does, they will be in japanese on a poorly xerox'd page with blurry black-and-white pictures.
Having dealt with this **** numerous times in the past for rx7 parts, I said to hell with that racket. I bought the $90 shipped knockoff. It fits 95% fine, I had it at my door in 4 days, spent $25 to prep and paint it, and nobody but an internet JDM elitist will be able to tell the difference.
And let's be honest here...in a few years it will be worse for wear from rock chips, road debris, maybe a squirrel or possum, parking lot curbs, etc. Who wants to spend all that money on something that is inevitably going to get damaged?
Now I know this is unrelated to the rx8, but as an example I do a lot of FMIC installs on 2nd and 3rd gen rx7s. The Greddy kits are the "standard" mod in that department. Those kits retail for about $900-1000. Sometimes the vendors run out of them and they take a few weeks to get more. When you get it, the instructions and hardware are either missing or horrible. Now, I've done enough of them that I don't need the instructions...but the average joe would be quite lost without them. Also, these kits are engineered on RHD cars...so the piping fitment is sometimes off a little on LHD US cars because of differences with the brake system etc. Also, even though this kit is made FOR THIS CAR by the AUTHENTIC manufacturer, and this manufacturer also happens to make blow off valves, they don't bother to weld on a flange to actually mount the blow off valve. So you get to spend more time and money buying a flange seperately, then cutting and welding on your $1000 FMIC kit to get it to be what you needed to begin with.
Now let's look at the taiwan/chinese kit. They've actually modified the piping a little so that it is a better install on the LHD cars. This kit usually has the same hardware and (poor) instructions as the actual greddy kit. And it still doesn't come with a BOV flange. So why use it? Because it fits just as well as the authentic, and it costs less than half the price. And it does the same thing. Once it's installed you can't tell the difference.
For the 3rd gen rx7 guys, the 99 spec front bumper and turnsignals are the standard body mod. You can get them OEM from mazda for about a grand plus shipping. OR you can get a knockoff version of each for about 300-400. Sure the fitment of the OEM is better. But it has a record of being notoriously difficult to get ahold of. One of the "vendors" on rx7club was running about a year behind on fulfilling orders for them last I checked. Some people had already sold their car before they ever got the bumper. Why fool with that kind of ****?
The bottom line is, in my experience you may get roughly the same quality from either version you choose. If the authentic is better, it may not be that much better. One costs two, three, or four times as much as the other. One takes weeks longer to get. However, one will help you sleep better at night and boost your e-status on the internet and will gather more "oohs" and "aahs" in front of friends at car gatherings. You decide.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 11-05-2010 at 02:07 PM.
11-05-2010, 08:25 PM
#33
You are correct. You did not say that replicas will be better than authentic. It is also true that I didn't say you said that. I was pointing out the fact that an authentic part has a higher chance of being better and a lower chance of being worse than the replica. If you know the fitment of an authentic part requires little to no work and aren't sure of the replica's fitment, it's a safer bet to go with the real part.
You seem to really feel good about yourself not being one of those internet elitests. So much so, that it sounds like you're trying to say that you're better than them. On the internet, none the less. Maybe some people don't just buy it because they're elitests. I'll buy a CD for a bit more at a local record shop to support their business. It's kind of a way of doing my part to keep a shop I like in business while showing support for what they do.
So let's say someone's a fan of R-Magic. If they want to show their support of R-Magic's work and designs, they're not going to do it by going out and buying a replica. If no one bought the original authentic pieces, how would they stay in business to make future products? If no one had bought R-Magic parts before the RX-8 came out and they went out of business, then we would be deprived of the authentic R-Magic parts. But that's ok, someone else will just replica.... wait, no they wont. You can't replicate something that was never made.
You seem to really feel good about yourself not being one of those internet elitests. So much so, that it sounds like you're trying to say that you're better than them. On the internet, none the less. Maybe some people don't just buy it because they're elitests. I'll buy a CD for a bit more at a local record shop to support their business. It's kind of a way of doing my part to keep a shop I like in business while showing support for what they do.
So let's say someone's a fan of R-Magic. If they want to show their support of R-Magic's work and designs, they're not going to do it by going out and buying a replica. If no one bought the original authentic pieces, how would they stay in business to make future products? If no one had bought R-Magic parts before the RX-8 came out and they went out of business, then we would be deprived of the authentic R-Magic parts. But that's ok, someone else will just replica.... wait, no they wont. You can't replicate something that was never made.
11-09-2010, 03:49 PM
#34
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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And I'm not just saying that because I can't afford the name brand stuff...I certainly can. And at times where it really matters, that's the stuff I buy. But I've built enough cars for myself and for other people to see where it matters and where it doesn't. Anything electronic like computers, gauges, boost controllers and so forth, turbo kits/turbochargers, and so forth, sure it pays to buy the best high end stuff you can. Body kits, lights, brake rotors, air intake kits, etc. are where the name brand just means more money for the same basic thing. I have a $2000 baer big brake kit on my truck, and those high dollar baer rotors cracked and warped like no other. I now have SSBC rotors on there that cost less than half the baer's and perform just as well.
I've bought the high dollar part only to have it arrive after much hassle and time, only to be disappointed by the quality. Then I've later compared it to the lower priced part that someone else used on their car, found them to be about the same, and considered myself a dumbass for having spent the additional money.
Then yes, there are times when the knockoff just sucks and isn't worth fooling with at all. Those times seem to be getting fewer and fewer as time goes on. I'm not sure if that's because the authentics are getting shittier, or the knockoffs are getting better.
So let's say someone's a fan of R-Magic. If they want to show their support of R-Magic's work and designs, they're not going to do it by going out and buying a replica. If no one bought the original authentic pieces, how would they stay in business to make future products? If no one had bought R-Magic parts before the RX-8 came out and they went out of business, then we would be deprived of the authentic R-Magic parts. But that's ok, someone else will just replica.... wait, no they wont. You can't replicate something that was never made.
Last edited by RotaryResurrection; 11-09-2010 at 03:52 PM.
11-09-2010, 06:14 PM
#35
Just to clarify... I'm not arguing that more expensive = better. Authentic is almost always more expensive and I am arguing that it's more likely to be better. There are a lot of instances where a cheaper product is better, equal or so close to the more expensive product that there's no reason not to go with the cheaper product.
I didn't realize it when I first posted, but my example made it sound like fanboism. I meant for it to come across as more of an artistic appreciation approach. If you like an artist's work, you don't go out and buy a replica that someone made to show support. If it was a replica that the artist saw some of the profit from, then it's not as bad.
My point in the R-Magic example is that these companies can replicate these parts so cheaply because they don't have to take the time or need the creativity necessary to design the products from scratch and make them able to fit. The authentic designs aren't created over night. They spend quite a bit of money in the design process as well as all the time and labor involved before they can even produce the final design for people to buy. That's a lot of up front costs on the hope that a fairly limited market will actually buy enough pieces for them to turn a profit on their investment. So my argument wasn't so much "OMG RMAGIC! MAD JDM YO!!!!!! I GOTTA HAVE IT!", but more along the lines of "I appreciate this design and as a show of support for their efforts, I will buy their product".
Admittedly, that depends on the company. Some companies don't take the time to develop a product and just try to get it to the market as fast as possible so they can start making profits.
My main problem with your arguments is how one sided you are. I have no problem admitting that there are instances where replicas are a better choice or a reasonable choice. I'm just trying to make it also known that there are frequently benefits to the authentic parts and you can feel good about authentic parts beyond just being "elitist". Some people care more about aesthetics more than performance. Some people will sacrifice performance for aesthetics. If someone wants a top notch appearance build for competing at car shows, then getting the authentic makes a ton of sense. That's an instance where people will be looking for minor details and it could make a difference. Some people are perfectionists and those minor imperfections in the replicas are enough to bother them. They might be alright with the idea of replicas, but that small detail that they got wrong ruins the replica in their eyes. Some people love the sound of a BOV so much that they will knowingly sacrifice performance instead of going with a recirculating set up.
My whole point is that there are more reasons than just being elitist to get an authentic product. There definitely are elitists out there who will rant on and on about how their part only because it's made by the real company, but many others will have more valid reasons for going with the authentic parts.
I didn't realize it when I first posted, but my example made it sound like fanboism. I meant for it to come across as more of an artistic appreciation approach. If you like an artist's work, you don't go out and buy a replica that someone made to show support. If it was a replica that the artist saw some of the profit from, then it's not as bad.
My point in the R-Magic example is that these companies can replicate these parts so cheaply because they don't have to take the time or need the creativity necessary to design the products from scratch and make them able to fit. The authentic designs aren't created over night. They spend quite a bit of money in the design process as well as all the time and labor involved before they can even produce the final design for people to buy. That's a lot of up front costs on the hope that a fairly limited market will actually buy enough pieces for them to turn a profit on their investment. So my argument wasn't so much "OMG RMAGIC! MAD JDM YO!!!!!! I GOTTA HAVE IT!", but more along the lines of "I appreciate this design and as a show of support for their efforts, I will buy their product".
Admittedly, that depends on the company. Some companies don't take the time to develop a product and just try to get it to the market as fast as possible so they can start making profits.
My main problem with your arguments is how one sided you are. I have no problem admitting that there are instances where replicas are a better choice or a reasonable choice. I'm just trying to make it also known that there are frequently benefits to the authentic parts and you can feel good about authentic parts beyond just being "elitist". Some people care more about aesthetics more than performance. Some people will sacrifice performance for aesthetics. If someone wants a top notch appearance build for competing at car shows, then getting the authentic makes a ton of sense. That's an instance where people will be looking for minor details and it could make a difference. Some people are perfectionists and those minor imperfections in the replicas are enough to bother them. They might be alright with the idea of replicas, but that small detail that they got wrong ruins the replica in their eyes. Some people love the sound of a BOV so much that they will knowingly sacrifice performance instead of going with a recirculating set up.
My whole point is that there are more reasons than just being elitist to get an authentic product. There definitely are elitists out there who will rant on and on about how their part only because it's made by the real company, but many others will have more valid reasons for going with the authentic parts.
11-09-2010, 09:53 PM
#39
kevin@rotaryresurrection
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Just to clarify... I'm not arguing that more expensive = better. Authentic is almost always more expensive and I am arguing that it's more likely to be better. There are a lot of instances where a cheaper product is better, equal or so close to the more expensive product that there's no reason not to go with the cheaper product.
I didn't realize it when I first posted, but my example made it sound like fanboism. I meant for it to come across as more of an artistic appreciation approach. If you like an artist's work, you don't go out and buy a replica that someone made to show support. If it was a replica that the artist saw some of the profit from, then it's not as bad.
My point in the R-Magic example is that these companies can replicate these parts so cheaply because they don't have to take the time or need the creativity necessary to design the products from scratch and make them able to fit. The authentic designs aren't created over night. They spend quite a bit of money in the design process as well as all the time and labor involved before they can even produce the final design for people to buy. That's a lot of up front costs on the hope that a fairly limited market will actually buy enough pieces for them to turn a profit on their investment. So my argument wasn't so much "OMG RMAGIC! MAD JDM YO!!!!!! I GOTTA HAVE IT!", but more along the lines of "I appreciate this design and as a show of support for their efforts, I will buy their product".
Admittedly, that depends on the company. Some companies don't take the time to develop a product and just try to get it to the market as fast as possible so they can start making profits.
My main problem with your arguments is how one sided you are. I have no problem admitting that there are instances where replicas are a better choice or a reasonable choice. I'm just trying to make it also known that there are frequently benefits to the authentic parts and you can feel good about authentic parts beyond just being "elitist". Some people care more about aesthetics more than performance. Some people will sacrifice performance for aesthetics. If someone wants a top notch appearance build for competing at car shows, then getting the authentic makes a ton of sense. That's an instance where people will be looking for minor details and it could make a difference. Some people are perfectionists and those minor imperfections in the replicas are enough to bother them. They might be alright with the idea of replicas, but that small detail that they got wrong ruins the replica in their eyes. Some people love the sound of a BOV so much that they will knowingly sacrifice performance instead of going with a recirculating set up.
My whole point is that there are more reasons than just being elitist to get an authentic product. There definitely are elitists out there who will rant on and on about how their part only because it's made by the real company, but many others will have more valid reasons for going with the authentic parts.
I didn't realize it when I first posted, but my example made it sound like fanboism. I meant for it to come across as more of an artistic appreciation approach. If you like an artist's work, you don't go out and buy a replica that someone made to show support. If it was a replica that the artist saw some of the profit from, then it's not as bad.
My point in the R-Magic example is that these companies can replicate these parts so cheaply because they don't have to take the time or need the creativity necessary to design the products from scratch and make them able to fit. The authentic designs aren't created over night. They spend quite a bit of money in the design process as well as all the time and labor involved before they can even produce the final design for people to buy. That's a lot of up front costs on the hope that a fairly limited market will actually buy enough pieces for them to turn a profit on their investment. So my argument wasn't so much "OMG RMAGIC! MAD JDM YO!!!!!! I GOTTA HAVE IT!", but more along the lines of "I appreciate this design and as a show of support for their efforts, I will buy their product".
Admittedly, that depends on the company. Some companies don't take the time to develop a product and just try to get it to the market as fast as possible so they can start making profits.
My main problem with your arguments is how one sided you are. I have no problem admitting that there are instances where replicas are a better choice or a reasonable choice. I'm just trying to make it also known that there are frequently benefits to the authentic parts and you can feel good about authentic parts beyond just being "elitist". Some people care more about aesthetics more than performance. Some people will sacrifice performance for aesthetics. If someone wants a top notch appearance build for competing at car shows, then getting the authentic makes a ton of sense. That's an instance where people will be looking for minor details and it could make a difference. Some people are perfectionists and those minor imperfections in the replicas are enough to bother them. They might be alright with the idea of replicas, but that small detail that they got wrong ruins the replica in their eyes. Some people love the sound of a BOV so much that they will knowingly sacrifice performance instead of going with a recirculating set up.
My whole point is that there are more reasons than just being elitist to get an authentic product. There definitely are elitists out there who will rant on and on about how their part only because it's made by the real company, but many others will have more valid reasons for going with the authentic parts.
11-09-2010, 11:44 PM
#41
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Back on topic:
High-flow cat/mipe
BHR Ignition Kit
AP/MM tune
OP will most likely not get any of these nest tho.
High-flow cat/mipe
BHR Ignition Kit
AP/MM tune
OP will most likely not get any of these nest tho.
Last edited by Dirt_Nasty; 11-09-2010 at 11:51 PM.
11-10-2010, 10:28 PM
#42
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Lol i was more amused watching the argument. I will be getting clear sidemarkers first. Midpipe hopefully second and kit last. All I really want done to it so far.
