chikai

It seems like everyone has a generally positive outlook on the RX-8. It's understandable as many of you are soon to be owners. I'm very interested in this car as well, but from my last purchase (see sig) I'm hesitant to part with my money again w/o knowing all the facts on all sides.

- What are some negatives with this car?
- Lack of torque?
- Space?
- Mazda Service? Acura really isn't all that...
- I've never owned a rotary engine car, but have heard of some reliability issues (especially w/ the seal between the points). Is this an issue with the new Renisis engine?

Feel free to throw in some positives as well...I may need a little arm twisting...

VWjet

A few negatives for me are:

-no US spec auto climate control
-no spare tire
-no fold down rear seats
-small trunk space
-no storage compartment if ordered w/o navigation

Those are all small and overcomeable issues though and the positives far outweigh them, in my opinion.

BRx8

i'd have to agree with all those points and add just one more:

- not as fast as the current crop of sports cars/luxury sports cars (ie. S2000, 350Z, G35, Impreza STi, etc.)

again, there are too many positives to list, which indeed outweigh the negatives...just think of it this way, Car and Driver just rated the RX-8 #1 over the Infiniti G35 which was their Automobile of the Year last year...this is possibly a clear indication of the RX-8 winning that title this year

RotorGeek

I went to the Revitup event this weekend. All my friends thought it felt a little crapped in the back but it was comfortible at the same time. I find few negatives about this car.

One other thing. The exhuast note is realllyyyy quiet. I perfer a little more noise from the pipes. Aftermarket will fix that

Puppy1

All our friends are going to have the crap kicked out of them if they try to take us on in the twisties.:D :D :D

RotorGeek

ooooohh yeah two of my friends have old Mustangs. It is going to be fun

Rich

The answer depends completely on what you're looking for in a car. For me, I suspect that it's not going to be able to take the current B-Stock champ S2k at the autocross. But, since I'm nowhere near nationally competetive, that's not really an issue. Most people don't care about that. Someone commented that the exhaust note is too quiet. I'm a stealth guy, the softer the exhaust note the better. Some complain about the car being "slow", or lacking torque. It should only be slow if you're not a very good driver or only find straights amusing. I think it finished 0.1 seconds behind the G35 coupe in the comparison test a few months back, and I would be willing to bet that anyone complaining the car is slow would lose a similar race by 10X more if they were driving the "faster" G35 coupe against whoever drove the RX-8 in that test. Drag racing is by far the least interesting form of racing ever invented, IMHO, so I couldn't care less about that issue.

So, if you want a drag racing car, it's too slow. If you want an autocross car, it may or may not be nationally competetive in class. If you want a family hauler, it may not have enough trunk room. If you want an economy car, it drinks too much gas and costs too much. If you want to tow your boat...you get the idea.

But, some would argue that response is avoiding the issue. If I could improve one thing (a bit difficult to imagine without driving the car) I'd either drop the weight, lower the gearing, or drop the price. Unfortunatly, like everything else that's been mentioned so far, making a change of that nature would hurt the car in other areas. It would certainly hurt the "civilized" nature of the car, and would probably add to the cost. More trunk space means more weight, worse performance, and worse styling. More space in the back seats is the same as more trunk space. Higher performance/more torque means either more cost, more weight, or less usability, but most likely it means all three.

Fixing any of the downsides anyone mentions means increasing the downsides someone else sees.

Good Duck

Here's one big negative point against the RX-8 right now:

** It's not in my driveway yet.

chikai

Good points Rich...

While I've autocrossed before (in my CL no less) I do not plan on participating again in my primary car. It is too much wear and tear on a car that I drive to work everyday or take long road trips in.

I've also done the 1320 in my CL and yeah, like you said, very pointless...I didn't even get a rush out of it.

I had a 95 Integra prior with Neuspeed springs and a few other suspension knick-knacks. The thing I missed most when I went to the CL was the tossibility of the car. I used to be able to enter a corner much later and still make it through OK with a hard enough jab to the brakes. Now with the CL, I have to plan waaaay ahead before making the corner and even then I felt like the car was going "float" off the corner (coilovers/sways helped a little)

You mention below that you have to be a "good" driver to get the full potential of the car. What do you mean by that? You have to know how to plan for corners? You have to know how to heel-toe?

I also read the comparison test about the G35 vs RX-8 vs ??? And I remember those guys saying they had to do a launch at some ridiculous RPM range. So does that mean in an everyday driving situation, passing would be an issue?

And what's the estimated MPG for the RX-8? I'm currently paying out the *** for my 3.2L CL.

No room for a family is not a problem...I'm 24 years old...not expecting a baby anytime soon. The "wife" thing is next on my list. :D

BRx8

i'm not talking about how a good driver can make a big difference when racing two cars...i'm talking about the FACT that the RX-8 IS a slower car period...you take the same two people and have them drive an RX-8 and a 350Z respectively, the 350Z will win everytime...hence the RX-8 IS slower...sure you take a half-*** driver and plug him into the 350Z vs. a good driver in the RX-8 and the RX will come out on top, but that's a handicap...

all i'm saying is, it is indeed slower...by how much? to me it's negligible since i'm not a racer and the RX will be my daily driver to and from work, with occasional spurts here and there...i'm not looking for a speed machine because then i would have bought the 350Z...i want the comfortable backseats and 4 doors in which to get to them, which is why i didn't buy the G35c...

Rich

Well, the 350Z isn't the right car to compare it to, since it's a two-seater.

As for the RX-8 being slower than the G35 coupe, that's not true. The RX-8 is slower in a straight line, yes. Yet it finished on the track 0.1 seconds (I can't find the actual time difference, so that's from memory) than the G35c. That's negligible. In addition, it clearly shows that the RX-8 should be the faster car in the twisties. Since autocrossing is all twisties, I would expect the RX-8 to be faster on the autocross course. The G35c will be faster in some situations (straight line), but I doubt it's faster on all courses. On the street, no one should ever come remotely close to testing which car is faster than another car, ever. The two are so evenly matched that any comparison there will come down to which driver has less of an aversion to jail or death.

The point I was trying to make about different drivers is not a comparison between a skilled driver in a slow car being faster than a less skilled one in a faster car. The point is that the argument about which car is faster is silly. The only purpose of such conversations is in trying to gain some sort of artificial feeling of superiority on internet message boards. Who is every going to acutally test this premise, other than magazines? And who cars about 0.1 seconds on a track 99.99% of owners will never drive on? It's a silly and pointless arguement. Add in the fact that the driver will make far more of a difference than any tiny difference in the car and you really have a moot point. Heck, I've beaten NSXs, Z06 Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, Preludes, Lotus Esprit Turbos, and more. I've also lost to Hyundai Elantras and plenty of Honda Civics. Does that mean a Miata is faster than an NSX but slower than an Elantra?
The purpose of cars is to enjoy driving them, not to compare how many fractions of a second faster they go with someone else driving them on a track you'll never drive on. It really amazes me how much people care about 0-60 times and magazine's race track times. Those are nothing more than a false validation of a belief in something that doesn't really matter.

BRx8

unfortunately Rich, and i'm not trying to argue with you as i see many valid points in your argument, most people buy sports cars for the speed they offer...straight-line performance is more important to a greater percentage of people than you think...autocrossing is not for everyone, while everyone can benefit from straight-line performance...how? everyone drives on the street and stops at stop lights...street races will happen, and i'm sure you are not immune to them yourself...i generally try to stay away from them but there are always those occasions that your feet feels particularly heavy and you just can't help but want to test your car against others occupying the road with you...i've had Miata's, Civic's, Integra's, Celica's, Stealth's, Jeep Grand Cherokee's(!), etc. coming up to the line, revving up, and motioning for a straight-line race all the time...well, hey, i bought a sports car, why not race? sometimes i win, sometimes i lose, most of the time the race ends with a thumbs up from both parties...

the bottom line is, you're right...the .01 seconds doesn't matter...none of it really matters unless you're in competition and there's some sort of prize at the finish line...it's really all a matter of self-indulgence...for some people, that moment of pride is prize enough to warrant the purchase of a sports car

KEF

Speed isn't every thing,

I remember reading a magazine when I was younger, in which after an exhaustive test they decided the fastest car A-B on british roads was a toss up between the impreza, the elan and the lancia Evo 3. I see the '8 in a similar mould.

the only straight lines for a tyre burning start are usually to be found in built up areas, and who wants the potential consequences of that on their concience.

I for one want the speed on the twisty bits and the personal kudos of driving something a little different.

350Z, not available in scotland
Audi TT, every hairdresser in the land has one.
2000S, I'm well over six foot for petes sake.
Elise, ditto,

Scooby or evo, they crawl out of the woodwork all over scotland.

But don't think I'm a defender of the faith, I admit to being worried about the environmental impact of this machine, C02 and mpg are pretty horrific, as well as the persistant worry over reliability of the rotor.

At least I can set my mind more at ease via one of the carbon neutral websites.

TiRX8

Why do people always say the S2000 is faster when the performance numbers are similar in regards to power??

chikai

My two questions above still haven't been answered.

1) What's the acceleration like at highway speeds. While I understand 0-60 standing starts is not practical for everyday driving (unless you're in Pittsburgh where they put stop signs on Freeway entrance ramps) I would like to know how the RX-8 does for passing 30mph to 60mph.

2) What is the estimated MPG and for you folks in Japan, what's the real world MPG (or Km/L ?).

Rich

Absolutely never have, and I never will.

chikai - If you're in the right gear, you'll have no problem with passing. Passing in 6th gear is likely to be slow, but any opportunity to rev to redline should be worth it. :D
I won't speculate on gas mileage.

B-Nez

I think the 30-60 times tested were not spectacular, but I wonder what gear they used for the test. Basically, for a moving spurt or WOT run it will depend on whether or not you are afraid to drop a gear or two to raise rpms into the bigger power band. In other words, if you are cruising at 30 in 3rd gear and just mash the pedal, you will not be impressed - but if you downshift and blip into 2nd and stomp on it, you will smile. At least that's how it was in my FC - and that had about 90 less hp than the RX-8 HP.

Edit: I will point out, though, that with my FC, winding up 1st gear was critical to getting into 2nd gear's power range, so downshifting from as low as 30 isn't quite as spectacular as say downshifting from 40 or 50. Also, shifting up from first really early put you behind the curve, as well. With many cars we are not used to winding up 1st gear - at least that is not how I was taught to drive a stick. I had to break that habit when I got my RX-7, and it was so much fun!

wakeech

1.) try the Search function... look up any thread where Buger (the guy's name) has posted, and it's guaranteed 1000% great.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...0&pagenumber=9

scroll down... also, good simulated comparison between S2000 and RX-8. (may not be as slow as you think BRx-8)

2). the EPA rated it at 19/24 or something... i dunno if JSG or EASTMOONsan has reported any of thier findings yet (there probably isn't a large enough data population to take an adequate sample yet)... but, i'm still hopeful. your real-world MPG is far more dependant upon driving habits (not just throttle angle, but braking, shift points, cruising speeds, shift points, etc.)

BRx8

thanks for the links, Wakeech...those posts were made way before i joined this board...anyways, those numbers are from Jan...how accurate are Buger's numbers from then compared to now? (i honestly don't know)

and btw, in no way was i implying the RX is slow...what i'm trying to say is that IMO one of its negative points is it is slowER than a lot of it's direct competitors, the same competitors Mazda themselves have placed the RX against...

P00Man

JSG and EAST MOON are getting around 18mpg citty and like 22 highway or something like that

Positive on the 18 though.
________
Wendie 99

gord boyd

As much fun as I expect the 8 to be, it's just a car. Forget the car
and get a real life. Whatever happened to the purpose of transportation? --seeing friends, enjoying the countryside,
stopping by some watering hole. If I stand back for a moment, this car culture thing has gone too far. I want the probing and excitment because the advancement of engineering does great things. I want Mazda rewarded. But don't forget they are playing you guys like a fiddle. We've become a bit too obsessive
here, in my opinion. And I have been obsessive myself, and spent last weekend thinking about normal people. And thinking about proper best returns for my entertainment dollar. And thinking about my sailing days when I thought those stink potters were too noisy or too rich for the good of this planet.
I always use to say, no matter what the boat we all get the same view!
Some of you guys have become a bit too **** about this RX-8.
Get some fresh air.

Now to sound balanced here, I'm sure you are getting enjoyment from what you do. I don't mean to take that away, but lighten up a bit.

Think about the day you'll be trading this in on the next wonder.
Will it really seem so important then?

Sorry, but it had to be said.

Lock & Load

gord boyd i am impressed by your deep thoughts i am happy that some one realises that there is more to life than a motor car, you a getting closer to self actualisation well done.

BillK

IMHO, the biggest negative in the U.S. is the options Mazda decided we'll get, namely the fact that a moonroof is mandatory in the Touring and GT packages.

I'd like heated leather seats, but there's no way I'm going to fit headroom-wise in the car with the moonroof option.

FritzMan

My negatives are:
-EPA of 18/24 is pretty crappy, especially for 2003 technology standards.
-Lack of auto temp is silly for the market this car is targeted for.
-No fold down rear seats, but I'm willing to loose that for the extra stiffness of a cross-brace.

B-Nez

The writers at Carpoint seem to think that automatic climate control is a PITA, and not as effective or reliable as a good old manual logicon. I can't speak to that myself, but perhaps it is more that Mazda chose to eliminate that "gimmick" from their bag of tricks for the U.S. market in favor of a more useful system. Personally, I think the auto system would be pretty neat, but I'm glad that if anything had to be pared back for our market, it was that rather than the HP rating. Not that there is a correlation there, but it could be worse. It seems like almost every market is losing out on something.