Targatheory

I've been wondering about this for a long time, since even before I got my rx8.

Well, I only have one working key (to start the car). I have a bunch of duplicate keys which were made at like Longs and such. Those keys don't start the engine, as you all know, because they don't have the immobilizer chip.

Well I've been putting off programming my new official Mazda key that I got last week, because really, I thought some how I would figure out a way to get past paying 105 dollars just so that a technician can swipe the key through a computer.

One time, in my parent's Nissan Altima, we went through the same problem. The spare key we got made wouldn't start the car because of the damn chip. So I got the bright idea of putting one of the duplicate keys (from Longs), into the ignition, BUT holding the real Nissan key close by to the ignition key hole. And woala(sp?)! The engine started!

So I was thinking, what if I like duct taped my only working key somewhere near the key hole, but out of sight, and just left it there forever? Hypothetically, if I did this, then any key thats cut should be able to start the ignition because the immobilizer chip, in the key that's duct taped in the car, would always be there.

If you guys think it's cool, I really will do this. Because I have brand new Mazda key, cut and ready do go, minus the programming. And then, the rest of my family would also be able to have their own "copies" of a key to start the car. This would really save a lot of money, especially since we want like multiple keys for this car and do not want to pay 100 bucks per key (for the programming part).

Now of course there are some problems that I can think of. Like, will any part of the car's sensors, or the key itself, or anything like wear out from being in range of eachother ALL the time. Would the frequency or whatever die out over time. What if someone broke in the car and found the key hidden? Is it legal? Does having the chip in the keyhole's sensing range waste the car's battery, thus leaving my car dead in the morning? etc.

Opinions please, and thanks for reading

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

You will need 2 WORKING keys to program the ECU. so all you need is just 1 EXTRA working key, after that u can program whatever the hell you want.

So pay up, stop being cheap.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

I...but it would work.

The downside would be (apart from a thief finding it and boogying away with your car) just the lack of the chip security system. If they break in, they could pop the lock and drive away.

The chip won't wear out, or run the battery down. The car sends a signal out before starting, and if the chip is next to the sensing coil, it gets it's reply - no wear involved.

You could make as many keys as you liked (for $2 each!).

S

Targatheory

I got a mean response and a nice response. Yay.

NoTears316

Tell me your address, then tape the key in your car.

CarAndDriver

Just pay the money....seems like way too much work.

Krankor

Me, I think it's kind of clever. I mean, yes, a thief breaking in could pop the lock and drive away. But realistically, what are the odds of that happening? I can recall zero occasions where that ever happened to me or anyone I know in all those years before we had the extra chip thingy. The reality of the threat is really related to where one generally parks the car; the cost-benefit analysis obviously looks different if you live in New York City vs. Red Lake Falls, Minnesota. It would be interesting to get some actual statistics about car theft rates before-and-after the introduction of the fancy-schmancy keys. My guess is that there was a drop, but not a very large one. Again, unless one lives in a high-crime area, I'm not convinced that you're taking on all that much extra risk by defeating the chip thingy.

But I wouldn't tell my insurance company, if I were you.

Icemark

Why would you bust a perfectly good system, by breaking a key up and duct taping its transponder to the ignition key cyl?

It takes maybe 5 minutes to program new keys that you can get from ebay for less than $16 including shipping.

No need to take the car to the dealer to program keys. You can do it yourself (as nycgps mentioned) as long as you have two working keys. The only reason to pay the dealer to code keys is if you only had one or fewer working keys.

I don't get why people want to bypass or bust the car instead of doing it right

BoosTED

iTrader: (2)

Okay... for the potential hassle of someone stealing the car the one time $105 is cheap insurance.

Icemark

well the other issue is if the transponder or key he duct tapes up, gets its code dropped (as happens with BMW and Ford transponder keys from time to time). If the code gets dropped or the transponder fails in anyway, he would never be able to code a new key or transponder in until he first removed the one he duct taped in place.

Krankor

That is far from clear. The cheapness of insurance is related to the likelihood of the thing happening which you're insuring against. $105 might be cheap insurance against catching a cold. It would be ridiculously expensive for insuring against the moon falling on your head. Whether or not, in this case, the $105 is a good deal against car theft depends on the likelihood that his car will be broken into and stolen. If the OP lives and drives somewhere were car theft rates are very low, it might well be $105 pissed down the drain. If, on the other hand, he lives in Crime Central, then it would be foolish to not pay the $105. I don't know what the right answer is for this particular person. I'm just saying that it is context-sensitive problem that requires some thought.

Seriously, does anybody have any handle on what the *actual* odds are that someone will break into your car, try to steal it, but be thwarted by this chip thingy?

Icemark

Not just where he lives... but where he or she drives.

He or she may live in bumfeck ND where there is no car theft, but what happens when he drives down to LA or east to any number of cities

well we know that with a working system, 90% of the possible car theft will be thwarted (with 10% being the professional that is stealing it on a flat bed tow truck anyway- and taking the car to strip it).

But BMW posted a few years back that the transponder key in BMWs has been shown to stop 100% of the primary ammature theft (done by kids wanting to joy ride the car- or to drive the car over borders both of which together is 90% of the car theft in the USA). I would expect simular numbers for Mazda products with Transponder keys.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

It depends on where he park, some area he can probably leave his door unlock for DAYs without a single problem.

but I will say, the more protection the better.

and stop being cheap, its just a hundred something bucks.

You never know buddy, Would you like to be the next one? No one does.

I will say if they want to, they can and will take your car, no matter how many protection you got. But the more you have, the longer it will delay the process, even by just 1 minute, sometimes its between life and death.

Krankor

I did *say* lives and drives. Certainly where one is likely to go with the car is a consideration.

Granted. But 90% or 100% of *what*? If you stop 90% of something that only happens 1 time in 100,000, that's still not that much of a big deal. I'm not suggesting that that's what the numbers actually are, I just don't know. What I do know is that, empirically, based on never knowing an actual person who had their car broken into and stolen, it seems like we're talking about cutting down a risk that, for many people at least, was pretty tiny to begin with. But again, it depends on where you're leaving the car.

Krankor

Which is a nonsense statement. If you really believe that "the more protection the better" is true, regardless of price, then I will happily make your car entirely theft-proof, for the piddling little sum of $1,000,000. The more protection the better!

How very nice of you to decide for him what's "cheap" for his financial situation. If it's *just* a hundred bucks, if that's such a trifling little sum, why don't you just give it to him?

Nor do I wish to be the next person taken for a riding buying "protection" for something not needed. Me, personally, I have no intention at this time of disabling my key thingy, largely because, having just moved here, I don't know my area's crime characteristics. But I'll tell you this: nobody wants to be the next one to have a big repair bill, but there's no way I'm buying a rip-off extended warranty. Nobody wants to be the next one to have their store broken into, but my grandfather always refused to buy insurance for that for his store, and, even though he did have a stray break-in or two, he never regretted it because he spent vastly less on the break-ins than if he had carried the insurance for decades and decades. Insurance is not an unmitigated good, you have to weight the cost/benefits. Often it's a good bet to get insurance, but it is certainly not universally so!

Oh puh-lease! We're talking about saving the hassle of having your car stolen (not even the cost of it, since that presumeably is covered by the OP's insurance), we are not talking in any way, shape, or form about *life and death*!!!! Bypassing the anti-theft thing in his key is not going to cause him to DIE!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

lol.

If he can afford the car, he should be able to effort the extra *piece* of key. All he needs he one more working key, then he can program the 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on keys, all by himself.

If he cant afford 100 something, I STRONGLY suggest him to sell his car RIGHT NOW before more serious financial problem shows up. but from his words, he just *dont want to* pay the dealer. If its me, I would rather pay them once and for all. and to me, I will consider his action to be *cheap*

Did I say regardless of price? but isnt it the more protection the better? Now what he is doing is that, he has tons of lock installed, but he will leave a spare right under the *Welcome* carpet .....

Hello, he just need one more working key, after that he can program whatever the hell he want.Your Grandpa story is nice, but I will say car theft happens WAY more often than home Break-Ins. Sure if your area is good you might not need it, but what if one day someone decided to steal your car? it happens. and you'll be fucked big time.

The only advise I have for this guy is : Pay Up, and Thats it.

SmokeyTheBalrog

Is this a used car?

Did you buy it from a dealership or a person?

If you bought it from a person, they might have the 2nd key. Anytime they want they can walk on over and drive away your car and disappear. (This has happened to a friend of mine.)

If this is the case, get new codes put in place so the old key wont start the car anymore. Always put your club on or in some other way lock up your car.

cajunrx8

Ok since I am going through the same **** with my car I will ask.

Did the car come from the dealer new or used, with only one key?

If it came from the used car lot of the dealership raise hell with them!!

My car was the new car managers wifes car and the dumbshit lost the key. I also bought the CX-9 from the same dealer and went to the complaint manager and told her "I have bought 55,00 dollars worth of cars from your store and I can't get a key?!?!?!?

She had one ordered in 10 minutes and car is now at the dealer getting programmed and Recalls taken care of too.

Shinka-Dono

^+1. If not get it programmed anyway and be done. The cost is a bit annoying but then you'll have a fully functioning key (set) with all the happy remote bits too.

Targatheory

Yah, the car was from the Mazda dealership, used. They "lost" the only other spare key they had. Believe me, my parents and I have both argued with the managers enough, and they're real dicks. They won't do anything about it.

cajunrx8

I suggest calling Mazda higher-ups and explaining the deal. If the dealer lost the key they are responsible for a new key.
Go to the highest levels you can in Mazda, that is bad dealer relations.
The key is about 38 bucks and the labor is what kills ya. They can eat the labor by not letting a salesman have a big lunch. HaHa!!
Really I feel that you should be given a key but others opinions differ.
Best of luck.

Shinka-Dono

^I agree. You deserve a full set of keys. Not only that but as someone else mentioned that means some dink is out there with a key that fits your car. Go over their heads and compel them to give you a full set.

Krankor

+1

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

You didnt tell us *that part* of the story !

Now go raise some HELL with MNAO. Sure, Dealership "lost" the key, but the key has not been *destroyed*, what if one day some bad guy *magically* found it. It's going to be a piece of cake for him to drive it away.

but if all else fails, I will definitely go to another dealership to have them program the new key.

TomAssBender

Good Job