Trade in for BRZ
 

Who's going to trade their 8 in for a BRZ?

Not me! E46 M3 maybe! BRZ nah!

no problem

RX8 over BRZ? What you think?
https://www.rx8club.com/lounge-4/rx8-over-brz-what-you-think-231639/

Just got my 8 less than a year ago. No plans to trade in any time soon.

nah, why trade for something similar but normal. I like the uniqueness.

Maybe for an Evo, but not a BRZ.

I was on the fence over this one. Seeing as RXs are discontinued in the USA. I'm glad I chose Rotary over Boxer. Definitely more unique and special. 9K > 7K redline :)

What makes the BRZ any more compelling than the RX8? I see nothing about that car that appears to be superior. Cool cars yes, but i don't see any real advantage.

Nah, on the bro-z car.

The aftermarket.

Net HP gains
25HP for standard tune.
12HP for intake
12HP for exhaust
Tuned racing suspension. Also, lowers the car.

Better balance than Porsche Cayman. 2800Lbs.

Reliable engine.

Allot to think about...

The aftermarket support looks like it'll be pretty big. The ECU being open is another great thing for the tuning community.

It's more of a side-grade than an upgrade.

You get better mpg and perhaps a more reliable engine (no one really knows yet) but worse weight distribution, inferior front suspension geometry, and skinny tires with not much room in the wheel wells. I'm not sure it's as easy a decision as you think =)

It's an upgraded TC that beats MX-5 (not Rx nor the Zs)...:sad:

well at the moment I think I will wait, by the time the BRZ after market is in full swing it will be time to get a 2nd car anyway. unless I buy and evo,sti, or e46 m3 first!

At this point, the aftermarket parts are designed to part fools of their money. How good the aftermarket will end up just depends on how well the car sells.

The stuff about the ecu being "open" also seems like nonsense.

Saw it drift at Formula Drift- Long Beach and it was for sure a big time contender - that is, until Ken Gushi slammed it on the tire wall. Nonetheless, yes, Aftermarket will be big on the car. TRD + HKS for sure. However, the BRZ is overpriced IMOat 25.5k. Just 500 more and the WRX is available and I personally believe that is the better platform.

That being said, I'll definitely be looking over this one. Very interested in seeing what creations will spawn over here in the States.

My rule is that each subsequent car needs to be faster and/or nicer. This is neither. Pass.

Trade one first-year unproven sports car for another? No thanks, I'll keep my usable back seats, prettier face, and known issues with tons of support. Especially since I'm in the process of getting a reman motor under warranty :).

it just doesnt appeal to me its kinda fugly lookking IMO (of course thats subjective)

XT, SVX, BRZ. Darwin would be happy. Only took em 28 years.

I don't really see the BRZ as a better car. It's more like a step sideways and slightly back in a lot of ways. To me at least.

Source for these numbers please? Because right now I'm not buying it. Good luck finding that much HP in any modern normally aspirated engine. More than 10% HP gain for an ECU tune?! As for the suspension - big deal. You can find a number of quality aftermarket suspension for just about any car on the market today, I don't see that as a selling point.

Also the Cayman is mid-engined, it will be a better balanced car than the BRZ. Comparing it to the Cayman in general is probably not a good idea, it is in a different league (and price bracket).

I'm not sure about the ECU part but if you have had some experience with Boxer engine (friend has one) they respond to mods fairly well.

Probably not "12hp for an intake" but 5-8 is to be expected, same for Exhaust.

that car has a 50/50 balance and lower than rx-8 CoG. so it will handle the twisties just as good as Rx-8.

As for Reliability, hmm, Dunno yet, Boxer engine usually are ok.

As for trading in, not with my 8. maybe my other car. who knows. I'm open to options.

I've owned 5 911s and one Boxster over the years, so I've tinkered with a few boxer engines.:) On the 986/996 Porsche an intake is nearly worthless, ECU tune is nearly worthless, and a full high-flow exhaust (header, cat, muffler) is worth maybe 8 HP.

Most modern engines do not leave anywhere near that much HP on the table. Aftermarket manufacturers may CLAIM that much HP gain, but typically the dyno does not agree. These things are so highly tuned to optimize HP and MPG that there just isn't that much to gain without major work. Just stop and think about it for a minute - do you really think that an aftermarket manufacturer has the same amount of engineering prowess that Subaru and Toyota do?

Wait until they do a turbo version, THEN talk to me about the aftermarket. 80-100 HP with bolt-ons and a tune is more compelling than 8-10.

^ the engine has been detuned for reliability

Aftermarket parts and tunes exploit this potential.

Yeah I'll pass. I do like the looks, but they don't say "Wow" to me. And if they don't now, they certainly won't 4-5 years from now. The RX-8...well in 2004 it did make me say "Wow" (even more than the FDs did when I first saw them) and I have to say, I still think the looks on this car are fresh...almost 8 years later.

Not sure I buy into nycgps's claims that "it will handle the twisties just as good as Rx-8". It may have a firmer feel (stock), but I dunno. Not sold.

It's gonna be 30K to buy anything that I would want, with options. Too steep for me for what I feel I'm getting.

Yeah, just doesn't feel like a step up. I can't even say it feels like a step over either. Feels more like a minor step back for me. Pass.

Subaru is a bit different, their Boxer engines usually are detune for reliability, so they respond better to mods.

of course Porsche don't care, durability is never their major concern.

its time for you to look at some Subaru ? :lol:

they already said there will be no turbo version, simply because at their current engine location, there is no room to fit a turbo charger.

Aftermarket is different tho, they will try every single thing to fit even just a bolt down there, have to wait and see :)

Do they have that much money ? of course not, but I'm sure most of them are more than capable of push a few dozen of those engines till it blows to find their limits, isn't that enough ? That's how HKS did with their GT550, GT600, GT800, and now GT1000 kit for GT-R. mpg is NEVER aftermarket's concern, reliability is (somewhat), and it's usually not that hard to archive, U need a really good tune.

I'd really like to see dyno backed information on a Subaru that supports those claims. Not a butt dyno and not claims from an aftermarket company. I find it very hard to believe that Subaru leaves up to 50 HP on the table with an NA engine in the interest of reliability. Were it FI I wouldn't have an argument, I had a Legacy GT wagon with mild bolt-ons that should have been good for 300+ HP if you believe Cobb's dyno numbers.

Regarding Porsche, I'd suggest you do a little research on the marque. They have a history of dominating endurance racing, which requires reliability in addition to performance. My Porsches were some of the most reliable cars that I've owned.

Regardless, the argument doesn't hold much water. $30000 BRZ + $6000 turbo kit + $1000 exhaust + $500 intake + $1500 custom tune + $1500 coilovers. In the end you have a $42000 investment for a car that still isn't as fast or handle as well as many cars that you can buy for less money.

:lol2:

...I'll take the Cayman

People have tried tuning the Subaru 2.5i, and they get about 10hp.

The BRZ has a naturally aspirated engine making nearly 100hp per liter. There just isn't much left in it.

Comparing this car to Subaru's turbo engines... :icon_bs:

100hp/liter. If that's the case, how much are S2000 owners getting our of their F22s with mods? Surely 300bhp is not too farfetched? Maybe this will be the case for the BRZ.

Also, the BRZ / FR-S is running Prius tires as per several reviews. Makes me wonder how that handling will do with econo-tires.

Don't overlook that it's not a general limitation of HP per liter, but torque per liter. Then use that and the RPM to find the theoretical peak HP limit.

Sure, there may be potential with cams and head work. However some here seem to think it will be possible to bolt on nearly 50hp.

Agreed, it won't happen.

Just refining how people are thinking about it. Early discussions on FT86Club were taking the known values from 2.0L boxer engines and peak specific torque output, theorizing on the RPM limit, and landing at 200hp every time, which is what it ended up with.

There won't be many NA gains to be had with it...

+1

And hell, I only just got my RX-8 nine years ago FCOL! And agreed, this would do nothing, and actually less, than I can do already IMHO.

Sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree with that. Yeah the CoG is lower by an absolute standard, but it's a smaller car overall in most (all?) dimensions. Also the weight distribution is more like 55/45 front/rear. Lastly the front suspension is macpherson strut instead of double wishbone. Not sure how you can conclude it'll handle just as well as the RX-8 considering those. In a long sweeper I don't think there's any way the BRZ will keep up with the RX-8 if they're on the same tires.

In what universe is a slightly front-heavy, front engined car better balanced that a slightly rear-heavy mid engined car? Have you seen a lotus elise or a cayman go through a slalom, chicane, or about any corner on a race track?

Front heavy is not well balanced. 50/50 to slight rearward is generally optimal in a sports car.

Arguing "better" (a subjective term) in regards to weight balance (a subjective term as it is relatively easy to move the balance around, especially for race cars) is rather pointless.

Some drivers will prefer a different balance over other drivers. Doesn't make either "Better"

Yup until I can buy a Porsche.....not a boxster but a real porsche i'm keeping my 8!!!

Checked out a BRZ in person at NJMP yesterday. Larger of a car than I originally anticipated. Low, certainly, but wider and longer. I still think the dimensions work will with the looks.

We sat in it also Sat. at NJMP. They should sell a bunch of em. Welcome to the world of RWD.

Na---if i want a car that size i will get a 3nd gen RX7.

Hay! I'm just playing Devils advocate here.
If one looks at reviews, I'm just repeating their claims of better balance.
No matter what the reviews say or tests at Motor Trend ect...One still needs to test the car for themselves.

The point is... I think it will be justified to do your own road test.

I test cars ever year. I even test cars before they are released to the public.

I actually enjoy road testing cars.

The recent Car & Driver BRZ review actually compared it to the RX8.

^ That's the comparo I'm waiting for.... but do mags see too many potential Toybaru ad $$s to do it?

Do you have these official numbers? I thought the Rx-8 still had a lower CoG.

Here's the link to that Car and Driver article, in case anyone's interested:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t-drive-review

I'm still reading it, so I can't comment on it yet.

Sorry, that's an older article.
It mentions the RX-8 in passing, saying that its COG height rivals the RX-8.

There are some funny lines in the article, that got a couple chuckles out of me, mostly centered around the writers opinions of offering a sports car with an automatic transmission.

So, hopefully, there's a newer, better article out there, waiting for its turn to hit the internet.

BC.

Well, here's a quick discussion on it: https://www.rx8club.com/sitemap/t-223231.html

Never. I have a built 05 STI and will never buy another subaru again. Unless I'm fixing it to flip it...junk

"NOT"
Nuff said