mystrx8

Okay, okay. I know that this might seem a little paranoid, but my curiosity was getting the best of me. So here goes. . .
after reading all of the info on these threads concerning emissions regulations potentially retarding performance, I decided to take my car through Tennessee State inspection. I was curious as to what kind of emissions my RX-8 was putting out. After also reading that the rotary has had major emissions hurdles, according to some of these threads, I expected to see numbers that were between my wife's 1998 Honda Accord 4-banger (LEV) and my '95 Merc Cougar XR-7 (RWD V8). This in mind, I roll into the station (Outside Temp. 79, Fuel 89 octane, Miles 2302), complete the test and as the tester approaches me, she tells me that the car isn't putting anything out! I asked, "What do you mean?" This is what she meant:

Hydrocarbons (HC):
Standard: 220.00 ppm
RX-8 Results: 1.00 ppm

Carbon Monoxide (CO):
Standard: 1.20%
RX-8 Results: 0.01%

WHAT THE. . . My wife's Honda LEV can't even get those kind of numbers through state inspection! As a result, this begs a few questions. . . 1) Isn't this quite a bit of overkill for my state's standards? 2) If the ECU can be reprogrammed, could this possibly restore my power without exceeding my state's standards? 3) If the ECU is reprogrammed, would this effectively void my warranty? 4) Any experienced rotary owners out there that could tell me what the potential long-term effects on the engine the reprogramming might have?

Wing

Those are similar readings to my 2000 Hyundai tiburon, I brought it for inspection in May, the readings were very similar basically 0!

Seems like ALL cars are getting the california restrictions even if your in Canada!

eccles

...Which is weird considering that the VIN reports that Budaman and FUBAR were providing before our cars arrived showed different emissions standards for Californian cars vs general NA cars.

It would seem totally ridiculous if every RX-8 on the North American continent has to suffer because the ECU's were reflashed to meet the standards of the People's Republic of Kalifornia.

mystrx8

At this point, I would really like to know what the Japanese ECU spec emissions for the RX-8 are. . . I mean, if they are even several times higher than this, then I could still pass emissions and have better performance than I presently have before any REAL modifications.

revhappy

I believe the RX8 got .49 (tons emitted a year) on the smog scale where .50 was average. The Mazdaspeed Protege in the same lot was .43. I think all the 2004 cars have this sticker.

mystrx8

Are you talking about the annual mass of total exhaust?

zerohour

Cool this means theres tons of hp to be found. Ill be looking foward to a piggyback unit or something of that nature.

Bengal Tiger

mystrx8, what kind of mileage go you get...and how is the soot buildup in ur exhaust....??

revhappy

I believe that's the case. I saw it quickly on the window. Can any owners with the Smog Emissions Sticker from the window add any clarification?

vudoodoodoo

You know what this means: TIME TO GET A STRAIGHT THROUGH EXHAUST!!! :D

jtimbck2

Wait a minute...are you saying that my car is making 238hp (or 225 depending on who you believe, but that's a different discussion) vs. 247 because it's tuned to meet California emissions standards, and I'm in Virginia?

I'm looking forward to the retuned ECU modules that will be available in the near future too! I care about the environment, but you don't have to be a fanatic about it!

RX Guy

Can you imagine if Mazda tuned the engines output differently for different states? Everyone would be swamping to buy their vehicles frmo the states that have the higher engine output. That would be bad for business. No?

rotarygod

The RX-8 is running way rich to begin with. When you lean it out, the emissions should drop even lower. Power will go up and gas mileage will get better. The engine is capable of the power. There is just a tuning issue that is being side stepped by Mazda for the time being. If a new muffler can get 20 hp, an intake can get 8-10 hp, even if the engine is only putting out 225 that all still adds up to 255 or so and that is before it gets leaned out. That is pretty impressive considering how much power it develops compared to the older rotaries even after they were street ported. Remember that this is still with lower emissions than the old engines were capable of to begin with. Paul Yaw says not to worry about the power so I won't.

ggreen29

Just for comparison, here's some data from my Calif emissions test for my 91 RX7, done on Sept 17, 2001.

Max HC (PPM) Allowed...116@15mph...91@25mph
Max CO% Allowed.........0.74@15mph...0.62@25mph
Max NO (PPM) Allowed...1044@15mph...904@25mph.

So Calif emission standards are 50 to 60% of Tenn's, but that still means that RX8 would have 1PPM HC, when it needs to get less than 116/91 (for 15mph/25mph), and .01% when it needs to be less than .74/.62. My understanding is that rotaries are supergood on NO, so that shouldn't even be a factor. This RX8 could produce 60 times more pollution and still meet Calif standards, so this is getting curiouser and curiouser. Are we sure that Mazda jiggled emissions at the port?

lbrintle

Are you basing this on the chasis dyno tests? Mazda has said that doing a chasis dyno on the RX-8 is hard because of all the corrections that the ECU does when it realizes that something is very, very strange. One of those items is to increase the richness in the engine to an over-rich situation. Now, granted this may be a Mazda-related excuse as part of the HP shmoo, but it does correspond to observed data: rich conditions on dyno, not in real life. There is no way that they could meet the particulate emission reports posted here if the engine was really as rich as it was tested on the chassis dyno.

mystrx8

Sorry guys, was gone for a while. As far as these questions:

1) During one round trip to Sikeston, MO (Wanted to eat at Lambert's Restaurant :D ) These are the stats: Myself and my wife (both approx 200 lbs each, but dont blame her, she's taller than me ), three bowling ***** with associated bags, shoes, etc. approx weight 60 lbs. Fuel 93 octane. Windows closed and A/C on the whole trip maximum cooling. Tank was topped off right before. MPG approx. 20.3. I still get some soot buildup on the bottom of my exhaust every full tank or so.

2) Yes, that seems like it might just be the case. If I were to own a business such as this and something unforseen took place that could possibly keep me from delivering, it might be economically feasible from the standard of least confusion to deliver the cars tuned to the strictest standards in the nation primarily because of what RX Guy said. However, if this is the case, I am still concerned whether tuning the car back to J-spec would void my warranty, or if any major combination of mods would tie my hands from the 247 hp during warranty period or exceed emission specs in doing so.

rotarygod

A car that isn't running rich will not leave soot all over the exhaust tips so quickly. ALL of the past rotaries run rich to begin with as well.

mystrx8

So I guess that my car is still running rich, then.

Ike

You won't get anywhere near 20 HP from a new muffler, 10 hp if you're lucky and that's at the crank, and an intake may make the car run poorly and have less hp.

By the way, congrats on the emissions, but it seems this makes this missing HP even more troubling.


Ike

Toadman

Huh? The car requires super at 91 octane or above.

wakeech

...we'll yet see. that thing is an ugly dog.

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

hell, I'm really getting screwed - living out in east bumblefuck we don't even have to pass an emissions test!! :o

rotarygod

Tell Rotary Performance that you can't get 20 hp out of removing that huge muffler and see what they say! Remember they do have a dyno. :D

86rx7

My 86 Rx7 got 2 ppm HC and 0% CO, of course that was with 1/7th a tank of menthol, and the airpump pumping directly to the cats and exaust ports soo,...

And just so you guys know, whatys comming out the tailpipe generally doesnt matter now days, as its all down around 0. What a car has to do now days to be LEV or ULEV is have VERY quick cat light off. 90% of the pollutents you expell are before the cats warm up and start catalyzing. Which is why the rx8 has a double walled exausht manifold, and a special chamber of a substance which traps hydrocarbons when its cold, and releases them aqfter the cat is warmed. That window sticker is basically telling you how fast the cats light.

eccles

My 1st-gen ran better on oil of wintergreen.