MazdaNut

I spend most of my week day driving sitting in traffic holding down the clutch pedal of my Miata. I love the RX-8 concept, but I am disappointed to see the latest show car no longer has the one option that "sealed the deal" for me. I won't settle for an automatic either.

Sorry Mazda; No tiptronic - No sale.

As for the GPS, it would be a nice carrott for those buyers also shopping the Lexus and Acura sport sedans.

JGard18

GPS - yay

Tiptronic - Nay

MazdaNut

I'm not saying ONLY offer it with a Tip-Tronic. Mazda should do with the RX-8 what they have done with their other sports cars:

An 'R' pkg that's stripped down and has the 6-speed manual with brakes the size of trashcan lids.

A Touring pkg with an 'optional' automatic and a few nice-ities.

And a Salon Pkg with Tip-Tronic transmission (the manual 6spd with a computer controlled clutch - like the show car) and GPS for the gadget hungry.

I'll sign up for the Salon model and then my 5-speed, turbocharged Miata can finally become my toy instead of daily driver:D

Washington DC traffic will kill a clutch and a left leg in no time flat

veloceracing

Tiptronic no. I hate for a car to compromise for the driver, if you really want a sports car, you gotta make a sacrifice, your sore left leg, or another car.

Now, about that GPS. This is a car that is going to sell for under 30 grand. This is a sports car, not a luxury car. Sure it has some nice features, but GPS is for people who dont have a map. One of the benefits of the RX8 is the light weight and for weight saving purposes I have taken an educated guess at the weight of a DVD based navigation system and a Map. The DVD system will most likely weigh in near 20 lbs when you add all the components for it in. Now get a map. That map weighs a whopping .25 lbs. You could have a map for every state, and it would still be lighter then the GPS system. And since you wont travel to all fifty states at one time you can go on vacation and not have to weigh down your car all the time. Good day to you sir.

veloceracing

BTW I dont mean to seem harsh, just letting out my feelings. Keep up the posting all!

JGard18

the new Z (under $30K) and the new Mini (under $20K) both have options for a DVD-Nav system.

Seems nowadays that any car without this option will fall behind. I'm still waiting for Subaru to offer it...

veloceracing

I suppose the bigger question is why?

liondogs

I also will chime in in favor of the GPS system. Have Mazda offer it as an option. That way those that want it can have it and those that don't will not have to take it.

bwob

Since Mazda went public with the Toroidal CVT they've got under development (and at this stage only for rear-drive cars based on the information Mazda has released), it would probably be safe to assume that is where any automatic transmission development at the company is going, rather than a shifting protocol for a conventional hydraulic automatic.

Considering Mazda's limited (in comparison to the likes of Toyota, Nissan and Honda) developmental resources, the Toroidal project is probably taking up the lion's share of work for the people in the transmission group. Considering the benefits a CVT offers over a conventional automatic (even Tiptronic) as regards performance, fuel economy and overall efficiency, choosing between CVT or a relatively minor development on the traditional hydraulic automatic box (which is basically all any Tiptronic-like box is) becomes a no-brainer.

In-car navigation systems are effectivelt a requirement in Japan (even for things 323-sized) so the car is designed to accomodat one. Hopefully Mazda's US importers will decide it's a worthwhile option, as they've got the final call to a degree as sto what makes the spec list.

bwob

Jerome81

BWOB!

Good to see you stopping by. In response to this, would you say that Mazdas tranny resources are small compared to Honda, Toyota, etc when they have the huge Ford empire to work with? For instance, I read on the mazda press releases that their new I4 motors have started production and that the casting process was developed in partnership with Cosworth, so they do use Ford resources. And with Ford laying down the development costs of creating a true automatically shifted manual transmission for the Aston Vanquish, could they use that, or a version of that transmission, for the RX-8? To me, a CVT just isn't that hot of an idea in a sports car. Never driven a CVT, but the idea that the engine just sits at a most effective RPM and the tranny never changes gears just seems odd in a sports car.

Just a thought.

bwob

Jerome, I have a feeling that the gearbox being developed for the Vanquish will prove to be incredibly overbuilt for the REnesis engine, not to mention a bit heavy. that box is being developed primarily for high-torque applications, so while it is certain to be tough as buggery, the gear sets are probably going to be carrying far more avoirdupois that you'd need (let alone want) with the RX-8.

CVTs are indeed an acquired taste and one I'll admit I've acquired if I have a choice between one and a hydraulic automatic transmission. Nissan has done some very clever lateral thinking with their CVTs, with the new Primera 20V model using Nissan's steel belt CVT transmission in a 'six-speed' version. When left in 'D' range it works as a regular CVT does, with the engine revving to a sweet spot between ideal power ant torque (while sounding like a manual with a terminally slipping clutch), but slip it into the 'manual' side (which has an up-down selector a la Tiptronic) and it sets the box to use six separate ratios, stepping between them when instructed to do so by the driver. The thing is astonishingly quick to go from one ratio to the next (faster than a Tiptronic 911 by a noticeable margin). Until I drove the Primera with the 'six-speed' CVT, like you I thought of CVTs as more suitable for in-town shoppers than sports cars. The idea of a CVT with fixed ratios (in addition to the traditional 'leave it in Drive' option) seems a bit daft at first, but behind the wheel it can be highly impressive.

On the 31st of last month, Nissan introduced a new model of the V35 Skyline (the car which will be sold in North America as the Infiniti G35) in Japan called a Skyline 350 GT-8, with the eight indicating the use of the Nissan Torodial CVT in 'eight-speed' form. It works much as the one in the Primera does, though with the addition of two additional ratios (the selections make for a real close-ratio box) and steering wheel mounted paddle shifters. Word from a Journalist friend in Japan (with an RX-8 on order) who's driven the GT-8 is that the box would be super in the Mazda. And like me, he's one who normally favors manuals over automatics of any type. Perhaps this is the direction Mazda is thinking for the RX-8s automatic option. The 'eight-speed' idea would indeed be suitable.

Finally to address your first question, regardless of the area of development you might select - save Rotary engine development - Mazda's resources are indeed smaller and with much less deep pockets than the gang at Honda and Toyota enjoy. Mazda is able to narrow the gap with some brilliant and dedicated people, however. But Mazda as a company is in a position where joint development programs are in the company's best interests. The Torodial CVT is a joint development with Koyo Bearing Corporation, for example, along with Mazda developing the block architecture of the 2.0 and 2.3 litre engines going in the Atenza/Mazda 6, NC series Miata and shared with Ford for the current Mondeo as well as upcoming Focus models. Mazda's development of the new engine family allowed them access to the Cosworth casting technology you mentioned, even though the Ford and Mazda engines have different cylinder head design. This is a win/win for Mazda and Ford, since Mazda gets the engine it wants (and at lower per-unit cost from the common block) while the Ford gang get a more advanced engine to replace the Zetec four faster and at lower cost than if they did the engine on their own.

bwob

MazdaNut

I hope (and wonder if they are even aware of) these individuals are keeping an eye on this forum thread. I would love to see the CVT and GPS as optional equipment on the RX-8. This car screams 'James Bond' and as such should have a few cool gadgets a buyer can tack on.

Aznplayer911

Damn Bwob! I didn't even know what the hell a CVT was until now. man...you guys are my hero!

JGard18

bwob, I want to say thanks for the damn informative posts!

as for a CVT, it does seem weird...but I would imagine that it would be beneficial for performance...since you're always in the max torque/hp range...but who knows how quickly the tranny will react.

either way, I want a third pedal, and a center console mounted stick.

NOTA V6

Count me in on that one.

toneytigre

any body have a post on the tiptronic info?? i have yet to see a website without 6-speed. they all seem to say 6-speed.

Apex

Show one thing, build another.


Nuff said.

mazdamax

Everyone seems to want to add complexity and therefore cost to the car. Yes, eventually a clutchless manual may have to be offfered, but for now, I say introduce the car as soon as possible with the simplest transmission options. This car is going to be unique because of the rotary and its "4 door" configuration, a true state-of-the-art transmission can wait.

I want this car for well under $30k. The only "options" I want are: 1) MANUAL transmission 2) Leather 3) CD Player 4) Moonroof or sunroof and 6) Folding rear seats.

I realize a sunroof/moonroof and folding seats may not be realistic because of rigidity issues, but hopefully they'll be offered.

Keep your damn $1000-$2500 GPS, and $3000 sequential shift trannys. I'll use a map and shift myself. Just my $.02. Thanks.

RX - 8

i think that if they are gonna make it, why not make it the best?...i dont mind waiting a little longer to buy a way better car!...especially with the sequential shifter and navigation...also if the price is too higher...the ricers that were gonna buy civics will buy an rx8 and riceriz it..i would rather have a much more unique...something that is as common as my fd

NOTA V6

Then I'd wait for the next RX-7. The RX-8 needs to be a huge financial sucess to gaurantee the arrival of the 4th gen RX-7, and many more sporty cars from Mazda. If the RX-8 sells to a limited market, do you think Ford would be for or against the release of an even more nitch market car that promises even less sales?

The 1st gen RX-7 was pretty cheap for a sports car, even in it's day. Do you see mega ricers everywhere driving them? No. They don't say "Honda" on the side, and do not have V-Tech on the trunk.

Apex

Does anybody realize the potential of the sequential shifter?
It is flawless, even the best race car drivers know that. Many race car types use similar equipment. This is simply a better transmission because we, as humans, still have to tell our left leg to depress the clutch, timing and pressure will always fluctuate resulting in power loss and damage to the clutch/pedal mechanisms and the rest of the drivetrain and drivetrain related equipment. A friggin computer operated clutch, push button (not quite the same but better, more accurate, than a foot pedal) or a system of "compression disks" (Tip and friends) is like giving the machine more control of the redundant or "machine-like" equipment. These systems can also lower the weight of the car depending on it's quality (the weight will increase otherwise). Until a neural interface (^; is created this is the best, safest, and most consistent way to shift through gears (especially 6 of them!).
I might be wrong to some of you...
At least don't dog those who appreciate it.
Heck I won't be able to afford it probably, but I'd like to think it would be a good option on all performance vehicals in the future.

Apex

NOTA V6

The big deal is that such a transmission would most likely cost more, and the savings would be passed along to us, the buyer. I personally wouldn't mind having some luxuries, but I understand why others would.

IMO forget the GPS and cupholder though. Or at least make them an option that is not part of a package. Just because I want a CD player and a moonroof doesn't mean I want Super America cappuccinos and Big Gulps in my car, or that I can't read a map, and am so busy I can't take 3 minutes to pull over and find out where I am. :D

Apex

Ya, your right, I did state that later in the reply, it should be an option but not a standard. The price would get kinda scary.
As far as a cup holder goes, that would be a great standard offer and it wouldn't cause a rise in price.
The GPS could come in handy sometimes, so that should be offered as a option.
By the way, can anyone else confirm that the carbon drive shaft will still be on the car (standard)?With a high rev vehicle we need a light drivetrain assembly to allow the car to gain revs quickly and efficiently.

Apex

spwolf

Not only that, when you are driving too fast on a curvy road that needs all of your attention, changing gears usually takes away some precious time and attention... thats the reason race car drivers use it as well. Of course, cost is always a factor, but we can dream ;-)

Apex

Man your right!
By the way You didn't **** me off on the other thread, it was the comments that Followed.
Also, beer can make a person very cranky.

Thanks for seeing the positive in what I'm saying.


Apex