gaspony

I'm hoping you all can help me decide. I've basically narrowed it down to these two cars, about the same price, about the same performance in Solo II autocross class B. I also want a car that I can fit 4 comfortably, but the M3 is nice because you could squeeze a 5th person in there if you had to. The M3 is going to have a few more miles on it, but the BMW is known for its engine life. I get conflicting reports on the rotary. When I test drove the RX8 the low end acceleration is pretty poor but up top in the rpm range it is great.
For the RX8 do you think DSC is a must? That is going to add to the cost to get that sports package or do all have this feature.
I haven't really looked into insurance but I would guess they are about the same.
If anybody has owned both I would love to hear from you. Thanks

Outlaws eXtreme

You mean an Older Used model of the M3... what year exactly?

DSC is almost a must.. I would say if money isn't an issue, go for it.

M3 insurance is higher, it's a more expensive, higher powered sports car.

The RX-8 is considered a Family 4 door car.

khtm

There are some people on this board that have done the M3 -> RX-8 switch. Hopefully they'll speak up!

SlowLude

All the E36 M3s that I've seen are used and abused!!! I love Bimmers, but the E36 are becoming more rare and are difficult to find in good condition.

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

E36 M3's have problems during autocross sessions. the oil in the oil pan splashes around so much, the valve train loses lubrication. ultimately causing the valves to tap. there are fixes for them. other than that, they're awesome cars.

gaspony

thanks for the info everybody. Keep it coming. And yes I'm talking about a used E36 M3, hopefully with around 50-60K miles. I would get a 2004 RX8 if I get one, although the new ones are around 25000 invoice and the used seem to be aroun 22000. I don't know if I could get one for invoice but that isn't that big of a difference. I guess with the sports package I'm looking at 26000 invoice. I have seen some 2004's for as low as 20000 but those have been the automatics.
The other issue is that depreciation is going to be more with the RX8. I'm guessing its going to loose half its value in 5 years. I don't know if the M3 will do that.
It is true that it is more difficult to find a quality M3. I thought I found one, but it's carfax said frame damage. Would anybody here buy a car with frame damage if the price is right?

khtm

Anybody would buy anything "if the price is right"

For me, a frame damaged car would have to be very, very cheap. Like half the price of the same car with an undamaged frame.

guy321

Gaspony is too close to asspony, I wouldn't have chosen it as my login.

Outlaws eXtreme

Ya, Listen to gay321, he knows what he's talking about....

Outlaw seXtreme.

GerryL

I was deciding between exactly the same two last month. I came a cross a 2004 6 speed GT for $22k and haven't looked back. I test drove both extensively and felt the RX8 felt lighter and more agile. The E36 definitely had more grunt down low but it was also a little more numb overall in my opinion. The RX8 ends up having about a third of the mileage on it, two years left of factory warranty, a more modern feel and look and better access to the back. Putting all that together, I am very happy with the decision.

MazdaRich

I thought about the M3, but I realized that paying $15,000 for a 9 year old beat on car vs. getting a new one for about $23,000 that has newer technology would be worth it. Not to mention the RX-8 is a proven commodity in BS, while the M3 isn't really at a national level. Don't get me wrong, the M3 is a great car in many ways, but I would rather have a newer car for that kind of money. Especially since the RX-8 is still under warranty. I also didn't want a used RX-8, because most of the quality problems have been worked out by Mazda now. I've had mine for a month and I would rate the quality as extremely high so far. You can get a base model for around $23k if you use the incentives or shop around a little bit.

The DSC is certainly NOT a requirement for this car. The car has so little torque and is so well balanced that it's easy to stay out of trouble. If you drive Solo II regularly, you probably have good enough car control skills that you would just be cussing at the DSC.

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

DSC is definitely *not* necessary on the 8, the car is naturally well balanced, such that with sensible use of the gas pedal, you can control the car extremely well in most conditions, save for a sprinkle of the frozen stuff :o

Armaant

I used to have a 325is and I put a chip in and cold air intake. drove that for a few years then switched to the rx-8. I personally think the rx-8 handles better then the bmw and obviously has more power. Of course the M3 is a different story but the major problem I ran into was when something would go wrong with the car. For a bmw if anything breaks your out of pocket alot and trust me on this because i poured alot of cash into keeping that car running. Secondly maintence for the bmw is alot as well. I would definitley go with the rx-8 as you would get it new with warrenty. Thats what I did and i dont regret the decision.

Matt RX8

I think they are both great cars and you can't go wrong with either one if you can find a good used one with no surprises.

I have many friends that have the E36 M3 and some that have also turboed them to 400+ whp. I'm also a BMW club member and do their autocrosses and driving schools. The M3 has faster straight line performance but the two cars are both very capable for autocross and track events.

The M3 is definitely a "boyracer" car so it may be harder to find a clean one.

I was in a similar situation and I went with the RX-8 because I wanted a new car with a known history. At the time, I was looking for a car to take to the track and I didn't want any surprises with the car when I'm driving at high speeds around a track. I had also had some recent disappointment with the 330i that I'd bought used which soured my taste for used cars.

If you get the BMW, definitely join the BMW Car Club of America (if you are in the USA). They are a great club and put on some great driving schools. I've met a ton of great people through my local chapter and I wish that Mazda had a similar club.

get the DSC if you live anywhere it snows or rains much. besides the xenon headlights that come with the sports package are a must IMHO.

knight7

iTrader: (1)

if you got the money get the M3 there is no car that can compared. the rx8 its amazing no where near as good, specially the support part from Mazda.

Ike

I grew up racing M3s and while they're great cars, they are much better suited to a real track than they are autox. If I wanted something to autox I'd take an RX-8 hands down. At this point in their life cycle the E36 interior is dated so you're not getting the luxury of a BMW. They're also quite expensive to maintain and most you find are going to need work, if they don't need it now they probably will soon.

If the RX-8 ends up not being your cup of tea and you want something with more low end power consider a different cars besides the M3. It sounds like you're on a budget and the M3 is not a car for someone with little disposable income IMO.

Im_DANomite

iTrader: (1)

one thing i have to agree with here is the cost of keeping the M3 maintained. any kind of repair on the bimmer is going to cost you a lot more. some things to look for on the E36 (not much) the rear shock mount usually starts to split, front ball joints have play (most bimmers will around 50-60k), on-board computer display is either missing pixels or the bulbs are burnt. i forget which years, but some of them came with plastic water pump blades, plastic gets brittle. seat belt locks throw airbag lights, usually they build up some sort of resistance over the years (elec. resistance). that's all i can really thing of at this point. very solid car and should last very long depending on how well it's been taken care of. both the rx8 and m3 are awesome cars, and i really can't tell you which one i like better. but if you are planning on selling later on, i would get the M3. a 4 door E36 M3 is a prime choice...oh, and remember there are two different motors!!!

Eazyeight

My roommate / best friend has an E36 M3 that I have driven and ridden in frequently (almost daily) and, IMO, the 8 beats it in just about all categories. The M3's interior is very 90s, as far as console design, lighting, colors (this one has a funky orange), etc. Also, riding in the back of the M3 is AWFUL, whilst my other 6' 4" roommate can ride very comfortably in the back of my 8. The M3's exterior is also dated; without a body kit it looks very plain and doesn't attract much attention. The M3's suspension/handling pales in comparison. Regarding speed, my roommates car is quicker off the line, but I catch up as speeds increase and 1/4 mile times are essentially equal.

The E36 M3 is a great car, and I was very impressed with it when he bought it last summer, but, in my opinion, the 8 is a better car.

RX-Hachi

I'm a former E36 M3 owner. Bought my M3 new in '98 and sold it in 2004 in order to get the RX-8. In fact, I picked the RX-8 over the current E46 M3 and money wasn't the primary reason. I'm very happy with my choice and have no regrets about not getting the E46 M3, nor do I miss my old M3. I think that says something about how good the RX-8 really is.

If you value lightweight agile handling and a certain driver/car/road harmony, you will not be dissapointed with the 8.

But having said that, the E36 is a great car as well. It's hard for me to compare them truly objectively, as one is still relatively new and the other is something I owned for 6 years. The E36 has more low end grunt, but the RX-8 revs like crazy. And as long as you keep it in the upper revs, it feels just as fast as my old M3. Handling wise the cars are very close, but there's that special harmony that the Mazda seems to have, so I'd give it a slight edge.
Then there's looks. For me, the RX-8 is the clear winner with a sexy new wave shape. The E36 M3 is classic BMW, but dime a dozen. Something I never liked about the E36 M3 was that it was too similar to a plain jane 325i or 328i.

gaspony

thanks for all the great info especially the "asspony" thread, that was very useful
It least if I **** off somebody I can say they aren't creative if they use *** pony.

The backseat was a big concern because if it is uncomfortable then that sucks (refering to the M3). I was also wondering if you could really put three people back there (in the M3) or if that center seatbelt is just for show. I've test drove/rode in the 8 and the back is amazingly huge, but strickly a two person back seat. If you look at the dimensions the 8 has the M3 beat by about 10 cubic feet in person room but I didn't know if a lot of headroom was being counted or what.
Also does anybody think that a 325 could be competative in D Stock or is it a strickly DSP car. If so I don't think I want to shell out the cash initially to make it even remotely competative if I were to get a 325, plus I want this to be my daily driver and would like to add slowly (like shocks, sway bar, maybe a little more aggresive alignment and then tires). I thought about a 330 as well but that back seat is strickly two person as well and I'm going to be paying the same as the RX8 for a 3-4 year old car with 60K miles. i figured if I want a car that seems to do really well in its class that has a functional back seat the 8 wins hands down when comparing it to the 330ci.

guy321

Glad I could help. .

StealthFox

id pony up the money for the 8 which will be a tad bit more b/c of the warranty and it will be less of a PITA which i assume is what you're looking for because the car will be your daily driver. for raw autox performance its a tossup, their both OK.

ElusiveFX

I've got both!

E36 325is with 99' M3 Engine Swap/M Tranny Conversion and tons of other mods...

I put over $18k in modifications into E36, and i still wasn't happy with it. The thing is with an E36, your always going to have those little things go wrong with it and since its a BMW, those little things cost an arm and a leg to fix. I've owned my E36 for 4 years now and just this past April I picked up an Rx8, because I needed DSC-LSD- and something reliable. Not to mention i got a hell of a deal on my 8...

BasenjiGuy

Go with the 8. I loved my '94 325is but I do not recommend buying a used BMW if you don't have $2 to $3k per year put aside to maintain. I think the E36 range is one of the best cars ever made and they are great all-arounders. But a new RX-8 is cheap to buy and own, other than gas mileage, which still isn't as bad as an SUV. In the long run you're going to be much better off with a 8 and a warranty.

clyde

If competitiveness in autocross is a concern and you want to compete anywhere above the local level, cross the 325 off your list. Except at the odd National Tour or Pro Solo where DS entries are really, really light, it won't have a chance against the E46 330s or Integra Type Rs (not to mention the E90s once people start running those).

The E46 330Ci is proven in DS (and the 330i should be able to do just about as well depending on a few things), but even with that car, you'll spend a lot more time driving around its weaknesses than you would be driving to the RX-8's strengths. Having autocrossed on both sides of the fence, what I'm sure of is that regardless of what level you're competing on, the RX-8 will be a whole lot more fun to run than any Stock classed E36 or E46 (whether it has an ///M badge or not). The RX-8 has proven to be a competitive B Stock car this year at the National level. It may not be "the" car for the class, but I wouldn't let that stop me...especially if I was cross shopping it with an E36 M3.