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Synthetic Oil....two merged "warning" threads.

Old 06-14-2006, 11:24 PM
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Exclamation Full Synthetic Oil In Rx-8!!

I Got My 8 Like A Month Ago, It Now Has 15700 Miles, Its An 04 With Full Mazdaspeed Bodykit And Spoiler, And 18 By 8.5 Wheels, Anyways, I Did My First Oil Chage Like Last Week, And I Put Full Synthetic 10w30 In It, And To Me It Is Acting A Little Wierd, Aem Cai Sounds A Little Rought On High Rpms, And It Also Seem A Little Slower..... A Friend Of Mine Owns A Rx-7 Turbo Ii, He Told Me To Not Ever Put Synthetic In A Rotary, Because It Does Someting To The Seals Or Something Like That, But He Told Me That Since This Was The First Time, It Should Be Fine, And He Said Not To Do It Again, So What Do You Guys Think, Should I Live It In There, Or Should I Take It Out, And What Type Of Motor Oil Should I Use? My Firend Said To Use One That Was For High Milage Because I Guess It Helps The Seals, Let Me Know What You All Think...........
Old 06-14-2006, 11:44 PM
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Wow. Do you have to capitalize the first letter of each word?

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ight=synthetic

Please do a search next time.
Old 06-15-2006, 12:17 AM
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Wow, Every Single Word Has The First Letter Capatalized. Takes Patience....ugh
Old 06-15-2006, 12:32 AM
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that's crazy...with all the added time it would take to capitalize EVERY word, you probably coulda searched and read through a half dozen threads alone.

suggest you stick with what the manual states, with is neither synthetic NOR 10w30. Kinda dropped the ball on that one. I could understand why it's running irregular

Mugato will be with you shortly, sir.

Last edited by Stavesacre21; 06-15-2006 at 12:35 AM.
Old 06-15-2006, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by VRRX8
I Got My 8 Like A Month Ago, It Now Has 15700 Miles, Its An 04 With Full Mazdaspeed Bodykit And Spoiler, And 18 By 8.5 Wheels, Anyways, I Did My First Oil Chage Like Last Week, And I Put Full Synthetic 10w30 In It, And To Me It Is Acting A Little Wierd, Aem Cai Sounds A Little Rought On High Rpms, And It Also Seem A Little Slower..... A Friend Of Mine Owns A Rx-7 Turbo Ii, He Told Me To Not Ever Put Synthetic In A Rotary, Because It Does Someting To The Seals Or Something Like That, But He Told Me That Since This Was The First Time, It Should Be Fine, And He Said Not To Do It Again, So What Do You Guys Think, Should I Live It In There, Or Should I Take It Out, And What Type Of Motor Oil Should I Use? My Firend Said To Use One That Was For High Milage Because I Guess It Helps The Seals, Let Me Know What You All Think...........

I THINK AS BEFORE YOU ARE AN IDOIT.. OR TARD NOT SURE... DO ME A FAVOR SEARCH YOU OWN POSTS...

AND THEN GET BACK TO US....

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/cumulative-synthetic-oil-discussion-52856/

beers

Last edited by swoope; 06-15-2006 at 12:56 AM.
Old 06-15-2006, 01:08 AM
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Hahaha....If you don't wanna get mobbed by members here, do yourself a favor and DO A SEARCH 1sT!!! It helps alot.......

PEace Out
Old 06-15-2006, 04:22 AM
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since i have put oil in twice i know on the cap it says 5w 20 but i guess thats just me anyone else notice these numbers on the oil cap? lol
Old 06-15-2006, 05:00 AM
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5W30 runs fine in the Renesis. Haven't heard of anyone else putting 10W30 in.........

Synth is fine after it is broke in.
Old 06-15-2006, 09:33 AM
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I think VRRX8 wins the troll away. you guys fell hook line and sinker too!

Old 06-15-2006, 09:45 AM
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if fully synthetic oil is not good for rotaries, why do they sell Idemitsu, Rotary Engine Racing Oil, (Fully Synthetic by the way)????
Old 06-15-2006, 10:06 AM
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OP do yuo play World of warcaft by any chance? there is a guy in the guild im part of that post like you do on the forums. If you do play World of Warcraft are you in the guild called Tranquility? I had to beg him not to post like you, becuase it made my eyes bleed in RL.
Old 06-15-2006, 12:12 PM
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well i forgot to search, and about the capitol letters, i typed them with the caps lock, and instead of apearing ont he post all capital, they appeared like that
Old 06-15-2006, 12:33 PM
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I can't vouch for what the manual says at this very moment about synthetic or non-synthetic oil but the DVD that came with my 06 says NOT to use synthetic in it.
Old 06-15-2006, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by puch96
if fully synthetic oil is not good for rotaries, why do they sell Idemitsu, Rotary Engine Racing Oil, (Fully Synthetic by the way)????
Its the only synthetic oil specially made and tested for a rotary engine, thats why they sell it. The manual clearly states not to use synthetic in the engine but that synthetic for the trany and diff. is fine. 10w is to heavy, i would use 5w20 like most do on here.
Old 06-15-2006, 02:52 PM
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How many of these do we need? The manual does not clearly or specifically say to not use synthetic. Can't you people read legal-speak. It says that synthetic oil is not recommended. That does not mean to not use it. I don't have all the info on hand, but it can be found if you search for it. RG has a post that sums up a lot of the info and dis-info about synthetic oil. If I find it I'll post it here.

Last edited by Skythe; 06-15-2006 at 03:43 PM.
Old 06-15-2006, 03:41 PM
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I didn't see this anywhere else so I apologize if this has been posted already. Royal Purple added a section to their FAQ page that deals specifically with the rotary engine. I'll just copy and paste it below.



"Rotary Engines

Can Royal Purple Motor Oil be used in a rotary engine?

Yes. A rotary engine is a modified four cycle engine that recommends the use of an API licensed motor oil for street applications.

More information and FAQs on lubrication of Rotary Engines:

In a rotary engine, the oil lubricates the eccentric shaft bearings, thrust needle bearings and rotor bearings similar to a crank and rod bearing of a piston engine as well as being injected into the combustion chambers to lubricate the apex seals, corner seals, and side seals helping to create the sealing mechanism doing the equivalent job of the piston rings.

Royal Purple provides outstanding protection for the e-shaft, rotor bearings, thrust bearings and is suitable for the oil injection system as it has proven to run cleaner than other oils and is an excellent choice for rotary apex seals, corner seals, and side seals.

Mazda makes a statement in the Owner’s Manual not to use synthetic oils in a rotary engine, why do you say that it is OK?

Royal Purple has performed seal compatibility testing on the components used in a rotary with excellent results, including older rotary engine seals dating back to the Cosmo. Royal Purple’s Technical Services Manager David Canitz has been an owner and racer of rotary engine cars and has used synthetic motor oils in rotaries since 1985 with excellent results. He has been trying to find an answer to this Mazda statement for the last 18 years.

In the early development of synthetic oils decades ago, there were purportedly some seal compatibility issues. Today’s synthetic oils do not have the compatibility issues of the old oils. There is no substantiated evidence of seal compatibility issues with Royal Purple.

Here are some facts:

The Mazda Factory racing departments recommend and use ‘synthetic’ oils including the winning 1991 Leman’s 26B 4 rotor Mazda 787B.

MazdaComp USA printed manual (now Mazdaspeed) recommends the use of synthetic oils for racing conditions.

Royal Purple Motor Oils have been used in rotary engines (both race and street) for ten plus years with excellent results.

Royal Purple Motor Oil is compatible with the bearing material, sealing elastomers, and combustion seals used in a rotary engine.


I heard that synthetic oil doesn't burn like mineral based oils and will coat the inside of the engine with deposits.

If this was a problem with synthetic motor oils in general, then all internal combustion engines using a ‘synthetic’ would experience increased deposits on internal surfaces. The opposite is actually the norm.

Conventional four cycle motor oils will typically leave deposits of carbon and ash when injected into the rotary apex seal, corner seal, and side seal areas. Royal Purple’s motor oil actually burns cleaner due to the synthetic base stock being free of contamination and many of the additives being ‘ashless’. This may not be true for all synthetics but Royal Purple has been proven to work extremely well in rotary engines.

Royal Purple’s formulation of synthetic hydrocarbon motor oil does burn at the nominal combustion temperatures experienced in both street and racing applications, whether normally aspirated, turbocharged, or supercharged. (500 – 1700° F idle to race rpms typical combustion temps)

Will the synthetic oil effect the oil seals?

No. Royal Purple’s Motor Oil is fully compatible with the elastomers found in rotary engines as well as more conventional piston engines. The oil seals, housing seals and other elastomers used in rotary engines typically consist of Buna N, Nitriles, Neoprene, or Viton materials which are also commonly found in piston engine cars.

I hear that synthetic is ‘thinner or lighter’ oil, is there a greater possibility that the oil will leak between the seals?

No. If an engine’s sealing surfaces are in good condition, synthetic oil should not cause any leakage. However, if an engine has marginal seals, there is a 50/50 chance the seals will leak less or more. A synthetic motor oil is going to have similar viscosity to that of a conventional motor oil – except at extreme temperatures. Due to a flatter viscosity curve, at low temperatures it will not thicken as much (easier winter cranking) and it does not thin out as quickly at higher operating temperatures (better oil film at higher rpm).

Should I go longer or shorter between oil changes?

Royal Purple recommends that the maximum oil drain / filter change interval listed in the Owner’s Manual be followed while under warranty (new RX8). For SA, FB, FC, FC Turbos, and FD rotaries, extending drain intervals from two to five fold is possible if desired. Since the rotary engine injects oil through the use of a metered oil pump, either adding oil into the carb base plate air / fuel mixture or directly injecting oil into the rotor housing, rotary engines will consume oil of one quart per 1000 – 3000 miles. It is important to maintain the proper crankcase oil level in your rotary engine if you decide to extend oil drain intervals.

If I pre-mix my fuel for the rotary engine, do I use the same ratio as with mineral based oils? Does it burn at the same rate?

In an ideal world, the rotary engine metered oil pump should inject an ashless oil designed to burn in the combustion chamber and use a four cycle oil in the crankcase for the eccentric shaft, rotor bearings, and thrust bearings. For the street, Mazda simplified the OE system to use just one oil, that being a typical four cycle oil for both the e-shaft as well as the combustion chamber. Royal Purple recommends using our standard TCW III 2 Cycle Oil if the metered oil pump is still enabled. The two cycle oil being added to the fuel tank is in addition to what Mazda designed to inject and acts as a supplement or insurance. Depending on which engine, the level of modifications (street port, Bridgeport, peripheral port, nitrous, turbocharged) and application, the typical mix ratio could vary from 200:1 to 800:1.

For a pure racing application where the metered oil pump has been disabled or removed, again based on the actual engine and modification level, the ratio could vary from 150:1 to 600:1. For this application, we recommend our Racing 2 Cycle TCW III product or the standard 2 Cycle TCW III can also be used.

A stock FD twin turbo 13B with the MOP oil injection system can typically use about one quart per 1500 miles under hard street driving. If this vehicle is getting 15 mpg, the gasoline to oil ratio is 400:1. If the oil consumption on this vehicle reduces to 1 quart per 2500 miles and fuel efficiency increases to 20 mpg, the gasoline to oil ratio increases to 600:1. The stock metering oil pump is a great system as it varies with throttle position (load on the engine). Pre-mixing has to be calculated for the ‘worst case’ that will be seen by the engine for that fuel load. Under racing conditions, that’s wide open throttle at racing rpms. This means that at idle, the ratio may be slightly fat (rich)."




I think that about sums it up nicely! Thanks Royal Purple!

RG

I've even using it for a many years now. Even Racing Beat recommends Royal Purple although before they did, they used Amsoil.

Everyone should understand that I don't say that you should not use conventional oils. I'm just against people saying that you shouldn't use synthetics. That's a rumor that needs to go away. One reason why I use RP is because they obviously know a thing or 2 about rotaries. It's obvious by looking at their FAQ page. They obviously understand what goes on in a rotary and have actually gone to the trouble to test in them.

I do have to laugh at the people who claim that Idemitsu is somehow specialy formulated for the rotary when other synthetics aren't. I have to ask, what makes it so special? We all know that what makes a motor oil a motor oil is the additive package. The base stock couldn't cut it on it's own. All oils use basically the same types of additives just in different proportions. It definitely can't be them that is special. What about the base stock? Could that be it? What makes a synthetic a synthetic is the base stock oil. Idemitsu is a group IV PAO. So is RP and several others. That can't be it. So what is it that makes it so special and safe for rotaries? I'll let you in on the big secret. Shhhhh...... Mazda endorses it because one of their guys had a hand in formulating it with Idemitsu. That's the secret. There's nothing special about it other than that. Last I checked it's what it's made out of that counts, not who did the mixing.

There is one thing that stands out about Idemitsu. I've seen an oil analysis of it which is why I crack up at the claims hat it is good and others aren't. It contains unusually high levels of molybdenum. Many other oils contain this as well. Just not in as high a quantity. Does this make it rotary compatible? Nope. As I said other oils have it as well so that can't be it. Why the large amount? They developed this oil for racing and not street use. For racing they wanted extra lubricating ability. Makes sense, it's for a race car. Molybdenum however will settle out over time. What will happen if you use this in a street car that doesn't get oil changes as often? Where do you think this molybdenum will go? Does that sound like something you want in your street engine just because it is "rotary formulated"? That's an oil I'd save for the track.

The whole point is that nothing makes a synthetic bad for a rotaries and conventionals good. This is the 21st century. 30 years ago there may have been issues. Use whatever oil you want. That's fine. Let's just stop continuing to spread false rumors that synthetics are bad. They aren't and evidence strongly suggests they are better.

RG if you are reading this, where is that post you made where you talked about talking to the guy from the race division from Mazda and how they use Valvoline, and you mentioned how people were wrong about using the reasoning that race engines get rebuilt all the time?
Old 06-19-2006, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightshoe
Its the only synthetic oil specially made and tested for a rotary engine, thats why they sell it. The manual clearly states not to use synthetic in the engine but that synthetic for the trany and diff. is fine. 10w is to heavy, i would use 5w20 like most do on here.
Can you point it out ? where does it "states" ?

Its pretty obvious that you cant even read.
Old 06-19-2006, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VRRX8
I Got My 8 Like A Month Ago, It Now Has 15700 Miles, Its An 04 With Full Mazdaspeed Bodykit And Spoiler, And 18 By 8.5 Wheels, Anyways, I Did My First Oil Chage Like Last Week, And I Put Full Synthetic 10w30 In It, And To Me It Is Acting A Little Wierd, Aem Cai Sounds A Little Rought On High Rpms, And It Also Seem A Little Slower..... A Friend Of Mine Owns A Rx-7 Turbo Ii, He Told Me To Not Ever Put Synthetic In A Rotary, Because It Does Someting To The Seals Or Something Like That, But He Told Me That Since This Was The First Time, It Should Be Fine, And He Said Not To Do It Again, So What Do You Guys Think, Should I Live It In There, Or Should I Take It Out, And What Type Of Motor Oil Should I Use? My Firend Said To Use One That Was For High Milage Because I Guess It Helps The Seals, Let Me Know What You All Think...........
Do you mind to ask your friend what was the "Seals" are made out of? and the Synthenic Oil that has problems with the "seals" ?

It was pretty well known that there was a problem with "OLD" synth oil that was like 20 years ago ? but we're in 2006 now I dont understand why are people still buying ideas thats from like 20 yrs ago.

Its just like Renesis have way more power than a 13B N/A. what is this ? its called Technology. and it applies to everything, including Synth Oil, oh. and it's already better than Dino oils.

Im not going to say I know everything, cuz I cant. but at least I think its safe to say that Synth is a yes for Rotary. If you're still afraid. get some Name Brand, well known Synth Oil then.
Old 06-19-2006, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Skythe
RG if you are reading this, where is that post you made where you talked about talking to the guy from the race division from Mazda and how they use Valvoline, and you mentioned how people were wrong about using the reasoning that race engines get rebuilt all the time?

it is disscused in the seven stock area... lots of info there... if you cant find it pm me and i will find it for you...

what it says is syn is fine for a rotary... they had some problems with mobil 1 a long time ago...

beers

Last edited by swoope; 06-19-2006 at 10:28 PM.
Old 06-19-2006, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps
Do you mind to ask your friend what was the "Seals" are made out of? and the Synthenic Oil that has problems with the "seals" ?

It was pretty well known that there was a problem with "OLD" synth oil that was like 20 years ago ? but we're in 2006 now I dont understand why are people still buying ideas thats from like 20 yrs ago.

Its just like Renesis have way more power than a 13B N/A. what is this ? its called Technology. and it applies to everything, including Synth Oil, oh. and it's already better than Dino oils.

Im not going to say I know everything, cuz I cant. but at least I think its safe to say that Synth is a yes for Rotary. If you're still afraid. get some Name Brand, well known Synth Oil then.

glad you got here before me... saved me lots of typing..

beers
Old 06-20-2006, 04:37 AM
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Cool

Originally Posted by VRRX8
well i forgot to search, and about the capitol letters, i typed them with the caps lock, and instead of apearing ont he post all capital, they appeared like that
Its cool man. Its just that the guys that have been on here form some time for get this is still a new car and people are discovering this car everyday. Just search around bring some threads back from the dead by posting in them after all this is a MSG board
Old 06-20-2006, 05:59 AM
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ya know.... I REALLY could care less what kind of oil a person wants to put in their own car. If they want to put baby oil in it, then okie dokie~fine by me.

With that said, there is no way in hell I'd ever put synthetic oil in a vehicle that does not specifically call for it. Why take the chance?
Oh yeah....
Old 06-20-2006, 07:29 AM
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At my Mazda Dealership they performed an oil change on my 8 using syntec blend (semi-syntec).... Would this be acceptable????
Old 06-20-2006, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by nycgps
Can you point it out ? where does it "states" ?

Its pretty obvious that you cant even read.
its states "Syntheic oil not recommended" take it how you wish. Its not recommended to jump off of a bridge either, but go for it.
Old 06-20-2006, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightshoe
Its the only synthetic oil specially made and tested for a rotary engine, thats why they sell it. The manual clearly states not to use synthetic in the engine but that synthetic for the trany and diff. is fine. 10w is to heavy, i would use 5w20 like most do on here.
What makes it so special? Chemically, what is it? I've seen an oil analysis on it and it doesn't have anything that any other synthetic oil doesn't have in it so what about it makes it special? I'll answer that one. MARKETING!

What do you mean 10W is too heavy? Are you referring to 5W30 vs 10W30? If so you do realize that the high number is what viscosity the oil is at when hot right? The lower number is means that when cold it behaves like an oil of that weight when cold. The high number means that the oil only thins as much as an oil of that weight. These numbers confuse people because they assume oil viscosity stays the same with temperature. All oils thin with an increase. A very hot 30W oil is actually thinner than a very cold 5W oil. 10W can not be too heavy unless you are trying to start a cold engine in the artic circle. At running temperatures the low number has nothing to do with it. Only concern your self with the top number. Here in Houston I have run straight 30W oil before. At operating temps it is the same as a 5W30 or a 10W30. It's only when cold that it is thicker.

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