this sucks - Mazda says 1 qt of oil consumed/ 600 miles
 

Well the final answer from Mazda is in.
Oil consumption on the RX-8 is 1 quart per 600 miles. And Mazda states that's GOOD. :eek:

In regard to your inquiry, the RX-8 comes equipped with a RENESIS
rotary engine, and it requires regular inspection of the engine oil
level. Please note, the warranty says the "normal" oil consumption is
1 quart per 600 miles. However, the RENESIS rotary engine is a compact,
high performance engine, and oil consumption is good, and it is
expected.
Lisa Lasky
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business




What B.S. The Renesis engine sucks. :mad:
Now before you say 'typo' think, if it is 60 miles then you better not travel
to the store without a gallon of oil in the trunk. If its 6000 then why are all the
forum members and myself adding oil at 1000 to 2500 miles.

Besides I have read two articles on the internet (one listed below), stating that the Renesis rotary uses ½ the
oil of a conventional rotary. IF THAT IS TRUE then we have all been lied to by Mazda or have defective engines that burn too much oil.

I keep in mind that my 1981 RX-7 used 1 quart per 3000+ miles, no matter the oil weight or how fast or hard it was driven.!!! So now Mazda has engineered and oil guzzler engine.

http://www.carmemories.com/cgi-bin/viewexperience.cgi?experience_id=624
Reduced Oil Consumption

In a rotary engine, oil is supplied directly to the interior walls of the combustion chamber to lubricate the "apex" and "corner" seals. Engineers kept the paths which supply oil in the RENESIS as small as possible, and we have redesigned the oil supply nozzles to improve their efficiency. With these enhancements, the RENESIS consumes about half as much oil as a conventional rotary engine.

Who cares? It's not like oil is that expensive. Just suck it up. You should have known about the oil consumption problem before you bought your car.

By the way, I've driven about 12,000 km (~7500 miles) and have had to add 4.4 litres of oil. That's about $10 CDN. And I drive HARD.

khtm's True. I don't understand the big deal. Oil is cheap, and not every rx8 eats oil the same. I add about half a quart every 600 miles.

Mine seems to burn about 1/2 quart every 1000 miles.. Get over it.. Your supposed to take care of your car not neglect it

#1. This engine is much better economy wise then a 81 rx-7.
#2. This engine doesn't suck it won engine of the year its first year out.
#3. It is a SAFE idea to keep oil in the trunk cause you never know. The harder you run it the more oil you will burn.

My 8 has 4,000 miles on it now and I have not had to put oil in besides getting oil changed at 3,000 miles. If you don't beat the car your oil consumption is low.

Huh? Who said at every 60 miles that you need to add a gallon of oil? Certainly not me. It's about 1000 to 2500 miles depending on how hard you drive the car.

Oil consumption in a Rotary engine is normal, in a Piston engine, its bad. The 600miles number provided by Mazda is simply to cover their asses however, the typical consumption should be higher than that. In a legal sue happy society today, they need to do everything to cover their asses to avoid law suite.

The first couple thousand miles my oil consumption sucked BIG TIME! It scared the hell out of me......"give it time" is what my dealer told me........as time passed, things set in and the apex seals set. Now with 8k I run through a quart about 2500 - 3000 miles at a time.

the point 'folks' is that MAZDA says the consumption is better (1/2) of the old rotary.

well the old rotary got 3000 miles before using 1 quart

so 'someone' is mis-representing BIG TIME the car when they say the consumber is better than the standard rotary.

I had no problem with 1 quart per 3000 miles, but 1 quart per 600 really sucks.

I bought my car, and put 2k miles on it, then drove it across the country adding another 3.5k miles. I added 2 Quarts of oil for the whole 3500 mile trip. It's really not that bad.

-Rupes

I can't recall anyone on this forum who has actually had to add a quart every 600 miles. As noted above, the 600 number is probably just to insulate Mazda from silly lawsuits. You should be able to go many more miles before actually having to add a quart.

since i got the M flash it is less than 1/2 qt low between oil changes every 3000miles .before M flash 1/2qt every 1000 miles.

3/4 quart of oil every 3000 miles for me.

I've gone 1300 miles and my oil level is fine. Just checked it a few days ago.

When I bought my car last year I was having to put in about 1 quart every 550 miles. I was a little upset using that much oil. I talked to the service rep and he said that it is normal for that usage but mine was definitely the only car he know using that much oil. I read the forum and every one was saying they were getting 1500 to 2000 miles before adding a quart so I just kept driving it. At around 5000 miles my oil consumption starting going down. I now use a quart about every 1500 to 2000 like most on this forum. So if you are using a lot of oil and the car is new hang in there and it should start getting better.

I have 4300 miles and have added just 1 qt.

Who cares? Why are so many RX-8 owners whiners? Add a little oil once in a while and ENJOY your RX-8. Feel the smooth high-reving engine, toss it around a mountain road and the oil "issue" becomes trivial. If your happiness with a car depends on perfection, look elsewhere, though I doubt anyone with that mindset will find it.

Talk about misinterpretation! :rolleyes: sandia8, that '1 qt per 600 miles' would be the MAXIMUM consumption Mazda would consider in the normal range, before warranty work would be approved. You seem to be assuming that because you got an e-mail from Mazda stating the warranty limit on consumption, that we all will be experiencing consumption of 1 qt per 600 miles??? Did you deliberately choose to ignore the dozens of posts detailing the actual oil consumption being experienced by forum members, which are always much less than 1 qt per 600 miles?

Regards,
Gordon

Lets see, I just finished a trip of about 700 miles and used maybe 1/8 quart. Oh yes, I ran the dragon 3 times very hard. So what is the problem?? :)

Another internet mechanic. Meh.

There are even piston engines that consume oil - the Integra Type R has oil injectors that fire into the cylinders to cool the pistons over 8,000 RPMs. I've always been PROUD to have a car that actually uses oil. Adding oil is a badge of honor.

I have been using 400:1 premix since the first tankfull, and in 6000 mile my 8 was low by 1/2 quart at every change (3000 miles), now have 7000 miles on it.

oh goodie - ANOTHER thread about the Renesis oil consumption.

I saw we ban this guy. :rolleyes:

Maybe someday Mazda will get enlightened and add a external oil source so crankcase oil won't be used. It would solve two problems; one, having to burn used oil and second not having to check oil so often. You could *idiot light* the tank and add a quart that would last for months. Having to check oil at 600 mile intervals isn't acceptable in a modern day car. When the Rotary becomes as maintenence free as a piston engine is when the rotary will become more universally acceptable.

That's jumping the gun to state the rensesis is crap because it uses potentially that much oil. You bought the car, you should have done your homework and accepted what its maintenance requirements were. You sound like the people that buy BMW's, and think because they just bought a 80K car that it doesn't need oil changes or any general maintenance.

And this car is better on burning oil than my previous two rotarys, but not by much. Either way, like near everyone else, I could care less.

The more accepted the rotary becomes the more vehicles we may see useing it. Wouldn't it be great if there were more companies doing development on it besides just Mazda? If the Renesis had just a small percentage of the development that the piston engines have had over the last years who knows what performance, gas mileage,oil consumption et.al. would be second nature with the rotary. Rotary Miata, Rx7, Rotary Boats, Rotary Airplanes etc. etc.. the possibilities are endless. It just has to take all the good qualities of a piston and refine those into a Rotary.

Your 1st thought is actually a great idea! :) One wonders why they don't do that, but then again, it's an additional cost, not really needed. Convenience wise, it sounds cool, but maybe they need to have hot oil or ???.

The 2nd statement is just nonsense. In the 1st place the rotary engine will likely never become 'universally' anything. It is unique and justly so, it possesses unique benefits and responsibilities that go with them. It doesn't have to be 'like' pistons engines, it isn't a piston engine (example: jet engines are not like psiton engines, yet they are 'accepted' on their own merits). So that is an arguement non-starter IMHO.

After reading some of the responses I see you do not get it.
It’s not that the Renesis consumes oil (we all knew that)
not that I did not do my homework (I did and owned a RX-7) ,
it’s the same old same old. YOU ALL BEEN LIED TOO BY
MAZDA, and are too stupid to know it. Mazda says a 50 % improvement
when in reality there is a 30-50% increase in consumption.

Why? You ask!
Most likely because they were trying to COVER THE 250 hp
LIE. You see, Mazda NOW says 10w-30 oil is just fine in and Renesis, the 5w-30 is for performance only!!! 10-30 is probably perfectly good for the rotary!!!!!!
So were they trying to use the lightest oil available UP TO get the 238 HP
So the reduced HP would not look so bad.? Maybe
What would the HP be using 10-30 in Phoenix summer heat (197)

huh? 197?

anyway - who cares? you know the facts since you did the research, so why do you care what mazda said or didnt say or misrepresented...

car companies misrepresent the truth all the time

Ahhhh!!!!! The sky is falling! It's a big Mazda consipiracy!!! We should all file a class action lawsuit because my RX-8 consumes a whole quart of oil in 3000 miles!!! I've been LIED to!!!!

Dude, if all you have to do is sit around and worry about this, you need to sell your RX8 and get a life. Immediately.

"The 2nd statement is just nonsense. In the 1st place the rotary engine will likely never become 'universally' anything. It is unique and justly so, it possesses unique benefits and responsibilities that go with them. It doesn't have to be 'like' pistons engines, it isn't a piston engine (example: jet engines are not like psiton engines, yet they are 'accepted' on their own merits). So that is an arguement non-starter IMHO." Now, Now.. I'm just saying that if Mazda wasn't the only one carrying the torch we may have seen developments in the rotary that would make it more feasable for use in a wider array of applications. The engine never had the development that pistons engines have had and obviously it's still in its infancy compared to piston motors. With the same development, who knows, it may have become the standard and.. oh well, no need to beat that point to death. Fact is, the little old grandmother may love the looks of the 8 but having to add oil, watch out for flooding and less than attractive gas mileage may prevent her from owning one. Unless you have something against little old granma's. Personally seeing an old granny driving an 8 would be just great by me. Put's it in perspective.

I vaguely remember that other sports cars like m5 and m3's have relatively high oil consumption... does anyone know how much?

1qt/6000mi doesn't really sound like a rotary. 1qt/3000 would be nice... but why bother with topping off when its about the same interval as an oil change? that rate seems like basically piston consumption.

1.5 quarts...4000 miles...about 0.5 qts every other week...not bad I'd say. My $0.02 (qts) :D worth...

Dude, can you read? do you drive an 8?
I've had to add 1 qt in over 3,500 miles of driving. And a statement by a company -MNAO- directed to a consumer is nothing else than the deed of a good ol' lawyer.

whatever, i just hit 3,000 miles and I've only had to top up with one quart of oil over that period.

Those 3,000 miles included two 900 mi road trips from SC to VA and back and a lot of city driving here in Charleston. HWY mpg on those trips averaged 22-23, and CITY mpg (checked today) was 17.7.

nothing shocking here. i knew when i bought it that it was going to burn a little oil, just the nature of the rotary beast. And my mpg results pretty much mirror what was on the window. I'm more than satisfied.

I have owned now 8 rotary cars in 25 years.
The RX-8 by far uses LESS oil than all the others.
In the 8 I may not ever have to add oil before I change it at 3000 miles unless I do a track day or something.

DUDE - go read the forum rules NOW, before we ban you (see the FAQ button at the top right of the page). It is against forum rules to be abusive to forum members and will not be tolerated. You want to call everyone here stupid? Go elsewhere. If it weren't against the rules, you would have had a dozen people saying "fuck you, you're the idiot, now get lost" by now.

In reality? You're still ignoring all the posts from people who state from experience that the Renesis oil consumption is nowhere as high as 1 qt in 600 miles, more like 1 qt in 2500 - 3000 miles? THAT is reality.

Re oil weight - you really have not got a freaking clue. The real reason, in FACT, why Mazda North America Operations specifies 5W20 while Mazda groups outside North America specify 5W30 is due to Corporate Average Fuel Economy reasons. Absolutely nothing to do with power. The lighter oil makes a miniscule reduction in fuel consumption due to less internal friction. Ford dictates the 5W20 for this reason, and this reason alone.

Now go read the rules, lighten up, lose the stupid conspiracy theories, and behave (or else).

Regards,
Gordon

You are to PICKY!!!! What you need is a good old Honda Civic. One with a big wing and a hood painted black to give it the carbon fiber look. Yeah that sounds like the dream car for you.

so what is the 197 degree summer like, does your car melt outside??? :D

ROFLl!!!! Im glad some people here still have a great sense of humor!

wow, this gets better every day.. Well people all depends on ur driving habits like eveyone knows.. more highway more oil IE more RPM's.. enough said.. ;)

What a thread! I just can't decide who's the bigger drama queen... <reads the forum rules>

the 197 refers to HP not tempratures in phoenix.

Think of it this way
you start with 250 hp,
that gets reduced to 238 for some reason
then you use regular 87 octance vs high tech,
the grade of gas mazda quotes 'is only for performance and not necessary'
then you skip the special Japan minerial oil and use what
mazda says is just fine 10w-30 or what the car really requires 10-30
because the engine is set to run so bloody hot it needs oil coolers
(probably to stos the hard starting and flooding issue since the manualchoke
has gone bye bye and noone would buy a car that fails to start as much as the RX-7 did)
and then drive the car at some place above sea level.
What HP do you think you would get? won't be 238.
as members have said, 'hp to the rear axles' would be a tad lower (like maybe 197)



Mazda 'gordon' says 10w-30 is issued by 'most delearships!
Mazda 'gordon' says 10w-30 is fine on the RX8,
5w-30 was only for performance purposes and not required!
and 87 octane is just fine according to mazda.
And Mazda quoted the 600 miles per quart - NOT ME - JUST FORWARDING WHAT
YOU DO NOT WANT TO HEAR IT APPEARS

Perhalps Mazda went to a lot of trouble to use high octane,
low vescousity oil and test the car at sea level so they could even get
close to the 238 hp so those of you who were so into HP would not
get a pair of roller skates

Sandia, your not understanding. Mazda quotes 600 miles to a quart as MAX consumption. There's a lot of epople posting here they dont use that much as it is, yet you need to make up a conspiracy theory to justify it?

and as was stated above the 5w-20 oil is recommended because of corporate avg fuel economy rules. using it returns slightly better fuel economy numbers. and what ever oil is used during testing HAS to be recommended to the consumer. that's all that's it get over it.

Have to even quote myself... :rolleyes:

My first comment: I like Sandia's little "Z2" thing.
Second: Not all RX-8s and neither were/are RX-7s all the same.
Third: Take any Mazda (or Kia, or Toyota, or Mercedes-Benz, et al) customer service comments that are responses to inquiries with a grain of salt. Same for service advisors and salespeople.
Fourth: First gen RX-7s feasibly used more than 1 qt per 500 miles in some cases. Most of the four that I owned were in the qt / 1000-3000 mile range. Don't even remember what the 90 2nd gen conv. used. But a friend still drives it albeit with a ported engine now so I could find out what is now at well over 200K miles. Was in TX and drove it a few weeks ago -it had 230K or more miles now.
Fifth: The Renesis oil consumption will vary based on how hard you drive it and your particular engine. The same type of driving will return different results in different cars. Get to know yours. What mine does is irrelevant to another owners.
Sixth: The fact that the Renesis r uses x quarts per y miles for owner z when driven in manner m at temperature t in atmospheric conditions a doesn't mean it's a bad engine or engine design. Change r,z,t or a and x and y will likely change.
Seventh: Whether Sandia 8 has owned an RX-7 or not and if in fact did and experienced some version of the above equation with said RX-7 whether it was a 12A bought new, with 250,000 miles or was a 13B bought new or had 250,000 miles does in no way affect said above formula for a Renesis engine.
And finally, if I can gain 30HP or even 3HP by changing to a different weight or brand of oil or oil that is bought on Friday the 13th in a yellow bottle while wearing a clown outfit with size 16 shoes - please inform me of what oil to use to attain this HP gain just by using different oil - I need to be enlightened... just IMHO as always, and YMMV (or, more likely ... Your Mileage WILL Vary)
and.... P.S. When I took mine to the Dragon (both times)I brought along an extra bottle of oil. I think I used the whole quart over the course of the weekend, adding the last bit before departing the area for the trip home. If a RX-8 (or RX-7) owner plans to do a day or two or three of hard driving bringing oil along will be as necessary as refueling. It's a fact, Jack.

I can read what Mazda said, and I know that not each owner will get the 600 miles per quart usage. But some probably do, my 8 is damn close to that.
But any current usage under 3000 miles is poorer than the old rotary engine. FACT!
I plan to use 10w-30 or even 10-30 and try to stop this oil consumption problem


FYI
My old vehicle was a NEW 1981 Rx-7 (12a of course)
No bloody oil cooler needed
Drove it (full out) 130,000+ miles over 13 years
Used 1 qt per 3000 miles period!
Changed the oil every 3000 miles (43 times at least)
SOLD THE CAR – IT WAS STILL WORKING JUST FINE
(the car worked just fine as long as you did not let the manual choke
go in , as it wanted to automatically, until the engine warm)
if the choke was allowed to close, the car ‘would not start until the engine was 100% cold) no matter how long that took – seems mazda has never fixed that problem – totally

another reason of me wanting to change the oil in my car is the preference in the brand of oil i want. i have no idea what the dealer might use and just wouldn't want to take the chance with something i paid good money.

the hp number of 250 is most likely a crank hp number. this number will then trickle down to 238 because of the linkages and shaft parts the power must go thru before actually reaching the rear wheels. they need to stop saying the crank hp anyway. i have an '01 r1 with 150hp and an '02 r1 with 153hp. both of these are crank hp. (both bikes have between 135-140 rear wheel horsepower)

yamajj