Should I buy an Rx8? Unbiased opinions needed.
06-21-2010, 05:45 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Should I buy an Rx8? Unbiased opinions needed.
I straight up love the car, but I from the reading I have done this car has a lot of problems. I just need more info about car care. I live in Buffalo NY, and we get some cold days, so Im not sure if this will be a problem. Any usefull knowledge about how much care is needed for this car would be helpfull. Also, did Mazda extrend the warranty? Does this still apply if I buy used from a private seller?
06-21-2010, 07:07 AM
#4
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
I posted this for someone who made a thread titled "I want to buy by I am scared":
And these ones for a teenager looking to buy an 8 as a first car:
Unbiased is hard to achieve on an enthusiast's forum. A contradiction in facts. Not that any other forum out there is any better, since there is so much misinformation and knee-jerk reaction without research and thought. Your post is further proof of that.
And yes, the extended 100,000 mile 8 year engine core warranty is for the CAR, regardless of the owner. But get as many records from the prior owner as possible in case you have to use that warranty.
It lasts 30,000 miles + the attention span of the owner...
Seriously. Pay attention to it, and you can easily get 100k+ without a problem.
Ignore it, and when the ignition starts failing around 30,000 miles from last replacement, the coils, wires, and plugs will fail in sequence, the cat will get toasted fast, which will cause problems with the O2 sensors and/or the engine seals themselves, etc...
Problems multiply rapidly if ignored on this car, and almost all problems are sourced from not maintaining your ignition in a healthy state.
The clutch pedal assembly is another one, that if it starts to break can be fixed for cheap at a welding shop, more expensive with an entire new one, but if it breaks, you can get anything from clutch stuck engaged, clutch stuck disengaged, clutch stuck partially engaged, transmission damage, master cylinder failure (and trickles to brake failure).
There are other minor things, like tail light moisture in 2004s and 2005, some visors break easily, the e-shaft sensor can get out of sync occasionally, the power steering and fan connectors are right under the coolant overflow hose, so it is prone to getting contaminated and causing problems with power steering and/or fans (simple fix).
As a whole, it's no worse than any piston car out there, but it doesn't suffer neglect easily or cheaply.
Pay attention to it, get it what it needs, and you will spend far less and be surprised at what the fuss is about. Ignore it and you will have a nice looking paperweight happily munching on your cash.
One of the biggest mistakes people make is maxing out their available income with payments on the car, and have nothing left over for maintenance. If this even remotely describes you, back your budget down a bit and allow for maintenance.
If you aren't prepared for that, or if that scares you, then look elsewhere. If that is acceptable to you and you are going in with eyes wide open (as my choice was), then you will be well rewarded by the daily pleasure that can be had from this incredible car.
Seriously. Pay attention to it, and you can easily get 100k+ without a problem.
Ignore it, and when the ignition starts failing around 30,000 miles from last replacement, the coils, wires, and plugs will fail in sequence, the cat will get toasted fast, which will cause problems with the O2 sensors and/or the engine seals themselves, etc...
Problems multiply rapidly if ignored on this car, and almost all problems are sourced from not maintaining your ignition in a healthy state.
The clutch pedal assembly is another one, that if it starts to break can be fixed for cheap at a welding shop, more expensive with an entire new one, but if it breaks, you can get anything from clutch stuck engaged, clutch stuck disengaged, clutch stuck partially engaged, transmission damage, master cylinder failure (and trickles to brake failure).
There are other minor things, like tail light moisture in 2004s and 2005, some visors break easily, the e-shaft sensor can get out of sync occasionally, the power steering and fan connectors are right under the coolant overflow hose, so it is prone to getting contaminated and causing problems with power steering and/or fans (simple fix).
As a whole, it's no worse than any piston car out there, but it doesn't suffer neglect easily or cheaply.
Pay attention to it, get it what it needs, and you will spend far less and be surprised at what the fuss is about. Ignore it and you will have a nice looking paperweight happily munching on your cash.
One of the biggest mistakes people make is maxing out their available income with payments on the car, and have nothing left over for maintenance. If this even remotely describes you, back your budget down a bit and allow for maintenance.
If you aren't prepared for that, or if that scares you, then look elsewhere. If that is acceptable to you and you are going in with eyes wide open (as my choice was), then you will be well rewarded by the daily pleasure that can be had from this incredible car.
You do sounds like you are ahead of the curve.
On your other points, I have a WWP, 2005 GT MT, and grew up in Laurel MD, and daily drive my 8 year round. I wouldn't take it over any other car. Even in heavy traffic, I know without a doubt I would be worse off in another car. And I have one of the heaviest stock clutches in 8s. Enough so that dealers and other owners comment on it constantly. The 8 just makes being on the road so much better.
I know how MD doesn't get much snow usually, then gets hammered every 3-6 years. So movement wise, you can probably survive the winters with 1 set of tires. If you exercise some of the intelligence that you have peaking out from behind the letters, I would recommend working on getting a set of alternate rims and winter tires. The rims can be complete garbage (mine are mismatched
), but it makes any winter condition drivable, and even fun! (as long as you are still clearing the snow with your air dam, but if you aren't, no one else should be on the road there anyway, the government would probably be shut down) If you take this route, buy them sometime between now and September, when the prices start climbing on them again. Get them in the summer when no one is looking and you can pay significantly less.
Cold itself is nothing to worry about unless your ignition system is weak. Stay on top of your ignition system (learn to subconsciously pay attention to the stability of the revs and how smooth, or not, the power band is, etc... Start feeling that hesistation and roughness, and it doesn't go away with WOT runs to redline, your ignition system is starting the downhill. Doesn't mean it will go right away, but the longer you wait, the greater and greater your flood risk, power loss, and mileage drop.
To be brutally honest though, we often make heavy attempts to steer kids (sorry, you are
) away from the 8 as a first car. First cars are usually neglected, abused, and/or wrecked. And we don't imply that it would all be your fault either. My first car last 2.5 months, ending it's life with an SUV landing on it's hood while I was stopped. **** happens. How prepared are you to lose a car that you will probably form an emotional attachment to? (it happens. Everyone either loves or hates this car)
Abusing the 8 doesn't have the same definition as other cars, but, with no real road experience, driving the 8 properly is insanely easy to land you in significant legal trouble. My first day driving my 8 I was up to 123 on I-70 winding through the mountains without any straights before I got woken up from heaven by passing another car like it was standing still, glanced down at the speedo and was shocked to realize how fast I was. Most owners have this same type of experience. If it happens at a bad point, in MD, you are talking arrestable. In most places it's arrestable.
Again, you seem smarter than most teenagers that come on here, and with the money saved up for it, more responsible and probably would take better care of it, but just some things to keep in mind. You can find a great Miata for a few thousand that will help teach you about maintenance while still getting the same handling without nearly the speed potential.
Regardless of your decision, I highly highly highly recommend you get to local SCCA autocross events. Seriously. Even 1 event will help improve your driving. Keep doing it for fun and education though, it's the best bang for the buck that you can have in your own car. Driver mods before car mods.
Good luck.
On your other points, I have a WWP, 2005 GT MT, and grew up in Laurel MD, and daily drive my 8 year round. I wouldn't take it over any other car. Even in heavy traffic, I know without a doubt I would be worse off in another car. And I have one of the heaviest stock clutches in 8s. Enough so that dealers and other owners comment on it constantly. The 8 just makes being on the road so much better.
I know how MD doesn't get much snow usually, then gets hammered every 3-6 years. So movement wise, you can probably survive the winters with 1 set of tires. If you exercise some of the intelligence that you have peaking out from behind the letters, I would recommend working on getting a set of alternate rims and winter tires. The rims can be complete garbage (mine are mismatched
), but it makes any winter condition drivable, and even fun! (as long as you are still clearing the snow with your air dam, but if you aren't, no one else should be on the road there anyway, the government would probably be shut down) If you take this route, buy them sometime between now and September, when the prices start climbing on them again. Get them in the summer when no one is looking and you can pay significantly less.Cold itself is nothing to worry about unless your ignition system is weak. Stay on top of your ignition system (learn to subconsciously pay attention to the stability of the revs and how smooth, or not, the power band is, etc... Start feeling that hesistation and roughness, and it doesn't go away with WOT runs to redline, your ignition system is starting the downhill. Doesn't mean it will go right away, but the longer you wait, the greater and greater your flood risk, power loss, and mileage drop.
To be brutally honest though, we often make heavy attempts to steer kids (sorry, you are
) away from the 8 as a first car. First cars are usually neglected, abused, and/or wrecked. And we don't imply that it would all be your fault either. My first car last 2.5 months, ending it's life with an SUV landing on it's hood while I was stopped. **** happens. How prepared are you to lose a car that you will probably form an emotional attachment to? (it happens. Everyone either loves or hates this car)Abusing the 8 doesn't have the same definition as other cars, but, with no real road experience, driving the 8 properly is insanely easy to land you in significant legal trouble. My first day driving my 8 I was up to 123 on I-70 winding through the mountains without any straights before I got woken up from heaven by passing another car like it was standing still, glanced down at the speedo and was shocked to realize how fast I was. Most owners have this same type of experience. If it happens at a bad point, in MD, you are talking arrestable. In most places it's arrestable.
Again, you seem smarter than most teenagers that come on here, and with the money saved up for it, more responsible and probably would take better care of it, but just some things to keep in mind. You can find a great Miata for a few thousand that will help teach you about maintenance while still getting the same handling without nearly the speed potential.
Regardless of your decision, I highly highly highly recommend you get to local SCCA autocross events. Seriously. Even 1 event will help improve your driving. Keep doing it for fun and education though, it's the best bang for the buck that you can have in your own car. Driver mods before car mods.
Good luck.
Most problems that crop up in the 8 start very small and get serious because they aren't addressed. For example coils start going bad, plugs then start getting fouled from excess unburnt fuel, unburnt fuel rapidly degrades cat life, clogged cat can over stress the seals and over cook the O2 sensors, localize heat too much which accelerates oil breakdown and increases engine wear...
Most of the owners that remain trouble free are trouble free because they keep on top of their oil changes, their oil level, and their ignition health.
Then again, that stuff is like taking cholesterol medication and regular exercise for your heart. They help prevent problems, but it doesn't eliminate risk and it doesn't mean that you still won't die of a heart attack. Mazda factory QC over the engine tolerances has improved quite a bit, but it is entirely possible to be sitting on an engine waiting for any chance it can to fail. It's also entirely possible to completely ignore all the recommendations and get 160,000+ miles out of the engine (one owner came on here thinking her engine was blown, come to find out it was just badly flooded, but she didn't know anything about rotaries and still had it healthy at 160,000 without doing what she should have)
It very is much like a heart, or lungs, or whatnot. All you can do is reduce the risk of failure.
Cooling and Lubrication are 99% of the battle to keep these engines healthy. Mazda didn't have enough of either from the factory, a flaw that puts us behind the curve. Several mods that are common can go a long way towards improving engine live. Namely the ReMedy water pump and thermostat, BHR ignition upgrade, COBB AccessPORT (for the part that allows you to monitor temps and set a lower threshhold for the radiator fans). Even removing the cat and going with a midpipe helps I think, as it helps keep heat away from the engine, and you don't have to worry about a clogged cat causing more problems. My engine was perfect until my cat failed, and it's never been right since. In spec, not replaceable point, but not back to the above average that it was.
That being said, I had the engine fail in my 2002 Corolla. THAT was a shock. A massive shock, one I took years recovering from financially. Completely unexpected. I would 100% take the failure I know is possible than one that I have no idea might be coming.
That plus the Rotary is cheaper to pull and rebuild than any piston engine. Even a rebuilt engine bought whole is cheaper. But you also have the warranty. 100,000 miles, 8 years for the engine core. (if you are in that and outside powertrain, a "free engine" will still cost you ~$500 for all the fluids, gaskets, etc... associated with the engine, but not part of it)
Mazda made the 8 incredibly easy to work on, and insanely expensive to get someone else to work on. Coils are 20 minutes for the untrained with a 10mm socket wrench and $140 in parts, $300 is the lowest I have seen a dealer charge, $500-$700 is common. Plugs are $80 in parts and 10 minutes for the untrained with a plug socket and a few ratchet extensions. Dealers are $300-$500. Plug wires are $110 to $300 (depending on quality), and less than 5 minutes to change, no tools needed (though removing the intake makes it easier) A full brake job at a dealer, or just about any other shop, will run you $1200+, $500 or less doing it yourself. Even other stuff like suspension components (struts, springs, sway bars, end links) are really easy to remove and install compared to other cars. Engine components are too, like the water pump, thermostat, alternator, air pump. If you need something replaced, there is probably already a DIY on here, and tons of friendly advice to help you along the way, plus Columbia MD is a hot-bed of 8s, lots of local help. Most of us don't need much of an excuse to find a reason to wrench on an 8. We just love it. Beer is a common currency for help, but you have 4 years to go before you can start legally trading in it
Most of the owners that remain trouble free are trouble free because they keep on top of their oil changes, their oil level, and their ignition health.
Then again, that stuff is like taking cholesterol medication and regular exercise for your heart. They help prevent problems, but it doesn't eliminate risk and it doesn't mean that you still won't die of a heart attack. Mazda factory QC over the engine tolerances has improved quite a bit, but it is entirely possible to be sitting on an engine waiting for any chance it can to fail. It's also entirely possible to completely ignore all the recommendations and get 160,000+ miles out of the engine (one owner came on here thinking her engine was blown, come to find out it was just badly flooded, but she didn't know anything about rotaries and still had it healthy at 160,000 without doing what she should have)
It very is much like a heart, or lungs, or whatnot. All you can do is reduce the risk of failure.
Cooling and Lubrication are 99% of the battle to keep these engines healthy. Mazda didn't have enough of either from the factory, a flaw that puts us behind the curve. Several mods that are common can go a long way towards improving engine live. Namely the ReMedy water pump and thermostat, BHR ignition upgrade, COBB AccessPORT (for the part that allows you to monitor temps and set a lower threshhold for the radiator fans). Even removing the cat and going with a midpipe helps I think, as it helps keep heat away from the engine, and you don't have to worry about a clogged cat causing more problems. My engine was perfect until my cat failed, and it's never been right since. In spec, not replaceable point, but not back to the above average that it was.
That being said, I had the engine fail in my 2002 Corolla. THAT was a shock. A massive shock, one I took years recovering from financially. Completely unexpected. I would 100% take the failure I know is possible than one that I have no idea might be coming.
That plus the Rotary is cheaper to pull and rebuild than any piston engine. Even a rebuilt engine bought whole is cheaper. But you also have the warranty. 100,000 miles, 8 years for the engine core. (if you are in that and outside powertrain, a "free engine" will still cost you ~$500 for all the fluids, gaskets, etc... associated with the engine, but not part of it)
Mazda made the 8 incredibly easy to work on, and insanely expensive to get someone else to work on. Coils are 20 minutes for the untrained with a 10mm socket wrench and $140 in parts, $300 is the lowest I have seen a dealer charge, $500-$700 is common. Plugs are $80 in parts and 10 minutes for the untrained with a plug socket and a few ratchet extensions. Dealers are $300-$500. Plug wires are $110 to $300 (depending on quality), and less than 5 minutes to change, no tools needed (though removing the intake makes it easier) A full brake job at a dealer, or just about any other shop, will run you $1200+, $500 or less doing it yourself. Even other stuff like suspension components (struts, springs, sway bars, end links) are really easy to remove and install compared to other cars. Engine components are too, like the water pump, thermostat, alternator, air pump. If you need something replaced, there is probably already a DIY on here, and tons of friendly advice to help you along the way, plus Columbia MD is a hot-bed of 8s, lots of local help. Most of us don't need much of an excuse to find a reason to wrench on an 8. We just love it. Beer is a common currency for help, but you have 4 years to go before you can start legally trading in it
Unbiased is hard to achieve on an enthusiast's forum. A contradiction in facts. Not that any other forum out there is any better, since there is so much misinformation and knee-jerk reaction without research and thought. Your post is further proof of that.
And yes, the extended 100,000 mile 8 year engine core warranty is for the CAR, regardless of the owner. But get as many records from the prior owner as possible in case you have to use that warranty.
06-21-2010, 02:57 PM
#5
Zoom Zoom Addict
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas Hill County
Posts: 454
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More cars is better. I have several cars. Hard to find one ride to do it all. Rx8 is pain level 10. If you want gravy get something else. If you want an exotic ride that sweet to drive then do it. Get a cheap roller pos first for a bakup vehicle. Then get the RX8. If Rx8 is your DD need extended warranty or phat wallet.
06-21-2010, 04:17 PM
#6
Registered
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You'd think that as much as people say "search" that the mods would just put a FAQ in this particular sub forum as much as it gets these questions.
You can keep doing something over and over again, but if its wrong, it doesn't really matter how many times you repeat it.
You can keep doing something over and over again, but if its wrong, it doesn't really matter how many times you repeat it.
06-24-2010, 08:04 PM
#7
You'd think that as much as people say "search" that the mods would just put a FAQ in this particular sub forum as much as it gets these questions.
You can keep doing something over and over again, but if its wrong, it doesn't really matter how many times you repeat it.
You can keep doing something over and over again, but if its wrong, it doesn't really matter how many times you repeat it.
And it's a hell of a lot more fun, too.
I've just done basic maintenance using good oil, oil filters and plugs.
YMMV.
06-24-2010, 08:11 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HAHA Exactly what I was going to say word for word for the first part. An enthusiast forum is no place to ask; however, I'd scroll around and see what people are saying about the car, things they enjoy... want to change, etc. That should give you a good idea of if you do or don't want it. I'm certain that you have no doubt read reviews on the car view Car and Driver and Motortrend. So my next advice is just peruse.
06-24-2010, 09:35 PM
#9
Registered
06-24-2010, 09:43 PM
#10
If you have an updated starter
A V8 huge *** battery and
BHR coils for hotter spark
check the oil regularly
you should be fine
ahh.... Buyer BEWARE on all used cars.
If you do not know how to buy used.. you will get screwed
A V8 huge *** battery and
BHR coils for hotter spark
check the oil regularly
you should be fine
ahh.... Buyer BEWARE on all used cars.
If you do not know how to buy used.. you will get screwed
07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey i live in nyc i have a brilliant black GT model with powdercoated gold 40th edition rims. fully stock and the clutch is going to be replaced this week. let me know if your interseted
07-12-2010, 07:03 PM
#14
Hooked on go-fast crack
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Canada's capital
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm on my second RX-8. Both have been very reliable.
My first one was a year round DD, went through 3 Canadian Winters without a hitch. Never, ever failed to start.
My second one I bought used, it had never been wintered and I'm continuing by only driving it summers. It has been perfect so far.
Having said all that, I would not recommend someone buy this car if they are stretching their budget just to afford the purchase price. Some people have had rough luck with theirs, and that might not be so bad if you can afford it and have a second car, but if it is your only transportation and you're broke, it would suck. If you can afford to buy both this and a reliable DD, you will have a fantastic sports car for little money.
FWIW, my "reliable DD" isn't even insured right now, since the 8 is so reliable. It is nice to know though that if ever there was an issue with the 8, I woudn't be stuck for long since I could get it back on insurance within a day.
My first one was a year round DD, went through 3 Canadian Winters without a hitch. Never, ever failed to start.
My second one I bought used, it had never been wintered and I'm continuing by only driving it summers. It has been perfect so far.
Having said all that, I would not recommend someone buy this car if they are stretching their budget just to afford the purchase price. Some people have had rough luck with theirs, and that might not be so bad if you can afford it and have a second car, but if it is your only transportation and you're broke, it would suck. If you can afford to buy both this and a reliable DD, you will have a fantastic sports car for little money.
FWIW, my "reliable DD" isn't even insured right now, since the 8 is so reliable. It is nice to know though that if ever there was an issue with the 8, I woudn't be stuck for long since I could get it back on insurance within a day.
07-13-2010, 06:47 AM
#15
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
Someone bumps an opinion thread that was already ended to attempt to sell their car, outside of the correct sub forum I might add, followed by another, and 2 people responding to comments made months ago as if it was overnight...
07-13-2010, 07:26 AM
#18
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
Chill pill? IS that the matrix blue or red one?
Or maybe you are referring to cooling down? I guess I'm hot then. Maybe turning up the AC would work better? Maybe you should come take my temperature
And time flies, didn't you know
It's been 22.07 days since the OP started, which was LAST QUARTER! And since a quarter = 3 months, clearly it is months ago
I still stand by my point though, considering the thread was started and ended in 3 days, and the OP is unlikely to return
Or maybe you are referring to cooling down? I guess I'm hot then. Maybe turning up the AC would work better? Maybe you should come take my temperature
And time flies, didn't you know
It's been 22.07 days since the OP started, which was LAST QUARTER! And since a quarter = 3 months, clearly it is months ago
I still stand by my point though, considering the thread was started and ended in 3 days, and the OP is unlikely to return
07-15-2010, 03:32 AM
#19
my honost answer to the should i buy a sports car is this. all of them have expensive tires, like 200-500 dollars a piece. all performance cars have parts that break often on them. all of them get crap gas mileage. I know the rx 8 had its issues and a lot of people complain about them being in the shop a lot. All of my vehicles have been this way. I had a roush mustang cobra that was totaled by a drunk driver. I still own my 1958 porsche speedster and I must have put 15,000 worth of repairs in the years ive owned it, and of course the rx 8 with its 500 dollars just to do coils, wires, plugs, and oil. the 750 dollars for an oem clutch/flywheel full assembly. now the tires are cheaper on my rx 8 than other car ive owned which is a plus. If you buy any sports car, from any of the big names or even small names like lotus expect to dump lots of money into it. not only for things you need or have to have, but for things you want and have to have on it. brembo brakes cost me 2500. didnt need them, but they sure do work beautifully. Ive refused to touch the driver side sun visor. my front air dam was taken out by someone else's exploding tire off a boat they were pulling at 85mph, didn't anyone ever teach people that trailer tires get way to hot to pull at speed. I am in the process of ordering another one. catalytic converters, tpms sensors, head light fog, rear light gold fish tank, cabin air filters "which the manual says if you chose that option even though its standard on all rx8's," and other things that always manage to go out on every car no matter what. the corvette comes with the slime fix a flat instead of a spare, but if you use it you get to buy a new pressure sensor because it slimes the sensor too. If your that worried you should do an owner ship cost of each vehicle, and then decide based on how much you want to spend, and what kind of driving you want to do. straight line, hills, curves, the car you buy should mimic the type of fun you want to have.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
