8_wannabe

Hey, I feel pretty good shifting the '8 but I gotta confess I've never been "trained" in how to properly use a manual transmission. I just do what feels right. I'd like to open a thread for advice about proper shifting techniques and pointers. This will be hard, but try to keep raging opinion to a minimum and let's focus on generally accepted "best practices" if there are any.

My first question: Say I'm cruisin' about 50 mph and there's a stop sign way ahead. I could keep it in gear and take my foot off the gas, which causes engine braking aka transmission braking aka compression braking. There was another thread on this, and I ended up convinced such braking is bad for the engine.

Or, I could leave it in gear, depress the clutch, and coast/brake to a stop. Being in gear, I can quickly gas it if some emergency condition arises. However, other threads have said leaving clutch in for extended periods leads to increased tranny wear and best to minimize clutch depression wherever possible.

So, alternative three is I put car in neutral, clutch pedal out, and coast to a stop. This is what I usually do. This minimizes wear and tear on my foot as well as the clutch. Is this OK? I actually coast in neutral quite a bit, coming down hills, etc. Since compression braking is "bad" (according to many emphatic people who seem to know) and keeping clutch depressed too long is "bad" (according to a different group of seemingly informed people) then there are many circumstances where coasting in neutral seems to be the best alternative.

I'd like an informed, dispassionate discussion on this devoid of wild-eyed rotorhead rhetoric plus any other good tips and tricks regarding good clutching/shifting techniques.

Thank you and happy driving!

P00Man

"wild-eyed rotorhead rhetoric" - 8_Wannabe


blasjkdfklasdfhasdf8 asdkfjlhasdkfjh LIKE THATS GUNNA HAPPEN, theres no ROTORHEADS around here!

thats beautifully phrased man
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mikeb

what

LL7

Which thread said engine braking is bad? I have never heard this, and would be very surprised if it was true. In fact this is a nice feature of a standard shift trany in my mind. Using engine braking lets you minimize wear on your brakes, lets you drive the car smoother, and prevents brake fade when going down long mountains.

Leaving the clutch in is bad for the throw-out bearing, but I still just sit with my foot on the clutch a lights and have always burned up the clutch plate well before the throw-out bearing, so it can't be that bad.

eccles

Engine braking can be used to augment the brakes, but it should not be used as a substitute. As an Advanced Driving instructor once told me: "Gears are for going; brakes are for slowing."

RX-GR8

i usually use alternative 3 disengage clutch and coast.

8_wannabe

Here's the thread. There's not 100 percent agreement, but the majority seemed to think engine/transmission braking is a bad thing.

plasmar

Option number 3, coasting in neutral with your foot off the clutch, is not a safe way to drive and can leave you unprepared to react to emergencies.

Leaving the clutch depressed is an acceptable way to operate the transmission. Sure it might cause some wear, but I wouldn't expect any issues for 100,000 miles.

LL7

You asked about leaving the car in gear and coasting to a stop, most likely pressing the clutch when the engine revs drop to about 1500. This is what I do to stop. The thread you mentioned is talking about mainly transmission and clutch wear from downshifting back through the gears. I agree this is not necessary wear on the trany or clutch so why do it.

The only valid point brought up in the other thread for my method of driving is the pulling of vacuum during closed throttle engine use, and the lack of fuel provided lubrication. I don't know if this is an issue with a rotary, but I suspect not. On a 2 stroke there is no lubrication of the cylinder except for what comes in through the fuel. On a rotary the engine is externally lubricated, but does burn about 1 quart every 1000 to 3000 miles. I guess this missing oil could cause a problem, but I suspect it is OK just coasting to a stop. Maybe going down a long hill with the throttle plate fully closed this would be bad, but I usually give the engine so gas when I descend a mountain, so I doubt it is a problem. Regarding the vacuum on a rotary, if the engine pulls in a bit of excess oil it is probably good for it since slight oil consumption is a design feature - plus it is not getting oil through the fuel now is it.

mplc

How about some help with shifting the AT. What are the do's and don'ts for shifting in manual drive?

Zio

i drive a 93 mazda 626 so its not a short shifter..

I depress the clutch whenever i want to slow down or when i go to stop, just a habit I guess.

I depress the clutch fully to change gears and i let it out slowly and at the peak i hit the gas a little to slide it into the next gear.

mdmaclean

If going to a stop, as in the first post, I would suggest not downshifting (and creating wear & tear). Just leave it in the gear you were using, and the transmission will downshift automatically if the speed becomes too low.

That is what I do in my wife's Audi. My RX-8 is 6 speed.

Kev

To drive a care defensively, you need to be able to brake, speed up or turn in a nano...

Always drive in gear, always be in a gear that is responsive at the speed you are travelling. Power can get you into trouble if you use too much of it at the wrong time, but it can get you out of danger too.

That second it takes to get into gear and spin up the mill can be a lifetime.

English

I second that.....be in the right gear for your speed, and anticipate what will arise......downshifting is part of driving...manufacturers know this.....and it is built into the transmission.

mr_digital_uk

Coasting is bad driving ... you've no idea how much power you'll have if you need it ...

Change down gears and let the clutch out ....

Get yourself in the right gear for the speed you are doing ...

Use engine braking ... it's a natural thing to do ...

Put it in neutral and take your foot off the clutch when you are at a standstill

Racer X-8

After reading all of this, I'm thankful to God that I have survived over 30 years, about 1/2 million miles of driving with such bad habits, yet such a good driving record. Mostly driving manual trans.

Coast out of gear if you want to. It's fun & saves much gas. I've never had an emergency that requires acceleration during a coast, always the brakes.

The only time I didn't do this is when the car shared the engine oil with the transmission. The transmission relied on oil pump circulation to circulate the oil thru the trans. The oil pump ran on engine rpm's, & so, idling while coasting @ high speed wasn't good for the trans. (Doesn't apply to the 8)

Downshift & engine-brake if you want to. It saves brake wear muchly. I don't usually downshift very harshly, like into a gear that would rev up to 8k, but if I were racing, I would. Downshifting is an integral racing maneuver, minimizes upsetting the set of your suspension into a turn & when it's time to power out of a turn, the clutch is out, you're in the right gear & ready for the gas. Combine with brakes for hard entrance prep into turns.

Engine controls design accounts for downshifting. I'm not sure yet what the 8 does, but I'm sure that Mazda knows that people will downshift the 8 & they have done the work on this.

One thing about driving with a clutch that hasn't been mentioned...never...never...never sit still by using the clutch to keep you from coasting backwards. Use the brakes please. Talk about clutch wear! I so hate to see someone doing this!

BlueAdept

I don't agree, having disassembled a number of clutch assemblies you will find that the bearing which allows you to release the clutch is typically poorly lubricated and under quite a lot of stress when the clutch is depressed.

Also, I do agree that putting the car in neutral is bad... I once got in the habit of doing that, and found out why it's bad! Somthing unexpected WILL happen and you cannot react... Don't do it.

Engine braking is certainly not good, but I'm not convinced it's bad... I would not change down to brake... just leave the car in the gear you were in, and use the brakes... you won't be causing wear... unless you were doing 9000 RPM at the time you decided to slow down... At that point of course, I imagine you'd want to slow down quickly anyway.

8_wannabe

Ok, here's the tally so far. Not counting the comments on AT, and having to interpret what I think a few of you are saying:

5 votes for engine braking
4 votes for leaving it in gear but clutch depressed
2 votes for putting in neutral and coasting.

I'll add my vote to #3 since I find it more enjoyable and easier and, as the man said, any "emergency" I've found during coasting required brakes not gas.

So with my vote, the count is 5-4-3.

BlueAdept

How would you clasify my comment....

I vote for NOT Engine braking, but DEFINITELY not coasting in neutral or with the clutch down... just leave it in gear while you brake,,, but use the brakes!... you'll get a tiny bit of engine braking, but I'm not condoining changing down for no purpose other than to get more engine braking.

8_wannabe

I counted your vote as engine braking. You don't seem to like either of the alternatives but you dislike that one the least. What you describe is def not coasting, it's leaving it in gear while slowing, augmented by braking. Admittedly I hadn't thought of this and I guess it takes a little coordination between the two feet. don't you start to lug if you leave it in 6th and get down to 20 mph or so? How does it feel using this technique? Seems like sooner or later you gotta pop into neutral and coast. Guess I'll have to try it sometime.

BlueAdept

You will very rarely be cruising in 6th and then suddenly brake smoothely to a standstil... typically you will be going very slow by the time you get down to idle... and will most likley be stopping... so disengage the clutch and drop it into neutral just as the engine reaches idle as you're about to stop...

If you only slowed a little, but now you're in the wrong gear, change down as you finish braking.

Edit: Of course if you've got to stop suddenly in an emergency, you'll just disengage the clutch and stand on the brake... it's a natural reaction and not a bad thing in that case...

Ophitoxaemia

why so concerned about brake wear? brake pads are cheap, and after i did them for the first time i wondered how shops can charge for that. so a good pair of pads is $60-$120 and last 40K+. thats pretty cheap compared to fooling with your motor.

depreciation on this car will be on the order of $10,000 in 40K miles, so saving say $100 on brake pad wear seems immeasureably small. this car has some fiick!ng awesome brakes! time to enjoy them!

also the motor is *not* protected from overrev on downshift, hit the wrong gear (like 2nd instead of 4th) and rev it to 15K, boom.

dont leave the clutch in longer than you have to. ive got 100K miles so far on my stock clutch in my 94 probe GT.

or just do whatever you want! its your car afterall!

james

Racer X-8

Downshifting is free.

Rotors also cost money.

If you downshift into too low a gear, you're stupid. :o

If you don't downshift, you should have bought the automatic & thus forgo the drudgery of having to shift the gears all by yourself.

Digisan

When slowing down I rev match and drop down a cog or two (or three) depending on the conditions. I coast once in a while if I see a red light way in the distance, otherwise I rev match. Rev matching takes a bit of practice, but it's a worthwhile technique to learn.

D-san

BlueAdept

More than a "worthwhile technique" I'd say you can't drive smoothly without being able to do a decent downshift... even double clutching if you're really getting enthusiastic, you KNOW that people outside the car can tell when you get it just right!

However, you shouldn't downshift simply to get additional engine braking, that's insane!