RX8s arent doing well, Bye bye new generation RX-7s :(
11-17-2003, 04:34 PM
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RX8s arent doing well, Bye bye new generation RX-7s :(
I been doing a lot of reading and research and based on numbers I strongly believe we can say bye bye to a new generation RX-7.
Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.
Im not really sure what to say or think, even though i strongly think the RX-8 is a great vehicle, if the numbers in claims keep raising due to engine or tranny failures, im pretty sure mazda/ford can say bye bye to bringing in a new generation RX-7.
Insurance claims to replace broken RX-8s is a similar situation as when the third generation RX-7. Even though RX-7 were being sold for $42.000 - $55.000 and a good chunk of money came in, still wasnt enough to cover the money being paid out in repairs and insurance claims to repaid broken RX-7s.
Similar thing is happening with RX-8s. Today, they sell them anywhere from $28.000-$35.000, If we balance that with the amount of FE's taken for repairs with the rate and numbers increasing, i dont think MAZDA will end up making enough money to justify a new RX-7.
These are just plain especulations on my end, i dont know. What you guys think of this??
Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.
Im not really sure what to say or think, even though i strongly think the RX-8 is a great vehicle, if the numbers in claims keep raising due to engine or tranny failures, im pretty sure mazda/ford can say bye bye to bringing in a new generation RX-7.
Insurance claims to replace broken RX-8s is a similar situation as when the third generation RX-7. Even though RX-7 were being sold for $42.000 - $55.000 and a good chunk of money came in, still wasnt enough to cover the money being paid out in repairs and insurance claims to repaid broken RX-7s.
Similar thing is happening with RX-8s. Today, they sell them anywhere from $28.000-$35.000, If we balance that with the amount of FE's taken for repairs with the rate and numbers increasing, i dont think MAZDA will end up making enough money to justify a new RX-7.
These are just plain especulations on my end, i dont know. What you guys think of this??
11-17-2003, 04:47 PM
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I believe your comments are quite premature. How many RX-8's have been sold? How many documented engine & tranny failures do we know of?
At worst, it is too early in the sales cycle to tell if these failures are isolated, or part of a bigger problem.
At worst, it is too early in the sales cycle to tell if these failures are isolated, or part of a bigger problem.
11-17-2003, 04:51 PM
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I thought that I read in the RX-8 book that even though the last RX-7 had problems Mazda still made a profit on the car over its life. It just didn't sell in high enough numbers to make the car worth the effort and at the time it made more sense to put that effort into the high volume models to get the accounts out of the red.
11-17-2003, 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Speed Racer
I thought that I read in the RX-8 book that even though the last RX-7 had problems Mazda still made a profit on the car over its life. It just didn't sell in high enough numbers to make the car worth the effort and at the time it made more sense to put that effort into the high volume models to get the accounts out of the red.
I thought that I read in the RX-8 book that even though the last RX-7 had problems Mazda still made a profit on the car over its life. It just didn't sell in high enough numbers to make the car worth the effort and at the time it made more sense to put that effort into the high volume models to get the accounts out of the red.
As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone.
Is too early to tell, you guys are right, yet if the pattern increases or even stays at the same rate, We might just have to face the same truth.
I hate to say that because i really want a new RX-7
11-17-2003, 05:15 PM
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Honest, RX7FD3, I don't have a problem with you personally - I'd be making the same posts challenging anyone else who came on here spouting such nonsense (and repeatedly doing it!).
That said - as far as Mazda is concerned, the RX-8 is a huge success. Their manufacturing facility is running flat out at full capacity, and they are still back-ordered for months in Europe (where deliveries are only now starting) and elsewhere.
What research and numbers? There have been plenty of numbers posted here (you always seem to forget that this site has existed for over a year, long before you showed up last week) that indicate that sales are steady, and there really aren't that many problems. I don't know how you can conclude from a few people here getting engine replacements (out of the 10,000 or so RX-8s delivered already) that this is a model-killing problem.
Regards,
Gordon
That said - as far as Mazda is concerned, the RX-8 is a huge success. Their manufacturing facility is running flat out at full capacity, and they are still back-ordered for months in Europe (where deliveries are only now starting) and elsewhere.
What research and numbers? There have been plenty of numbers posted here (you always seem to forget that this site has existed for over a year, long before you showed up last week) that indicate that sales are steady, and there really aren't that many problems. I don't know how you can conclude from a few people here getting engine replacements (out of the 10,000 or so RX-8s delivered already) that this is a model-killing problem.
Regards,
Gordon
11-17-2003, 05:19 PM
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I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary. This is pure speculation, and I hope it's not the case. I'd love to see a new RX-7, but at this point I wonder if the RX-8 is even going to make it longer than the FD, hopefully the engine thing ends up being a fluke or easily fixed. If it's not a flaw with the design then I think the RX-8 will be successful for the most part, since sales seem to be picking up a bit.
Ike
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Last edited by IkeWRX; 11-17-2003 at 05:22 PM.
11-17-2003, 05:22 PM
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I've heard so much talk on this forum lately about "all these problems" the RX-8 is having. Keep in mind that this forum is dedicated solely for the purpose of discussing the RX-8. Human nature dictates that people will discuss negative issues much faster than they will positive issues. Just because there are isolated problems doesn't mean the RX-8 is a bad vehicle. If you visit any other car enthusiast forum whether it is the 350z forum or BMW forum you will find problems. Does that mean that those cars are bad? Not at all. Every make and model has its own issues. The RX-8 is no exception. Only time will determine the success/failure of a vehicle. So please...no more of this doom and gloom talk about how the RX-8 is a failure. Talk to us in 5 years.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....:D
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....:D
Last edited by allstate; 11-17-2003 at 05:29 PM.
11-17-2003, 05:30 PM
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Re: RX8s arent doing well, Bye bye new generation RX-7s :(
Originally posted by RX7FD3
... Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures....
... Even though mazda is doing great selling RX-8s, just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures....
I'd love to hear where you got your numbers from. Exactly how may RX-8s have been sold worldwide to date? How many of them have come back for failed engines or transmissions?
Reading bad comments on the internet does not make the case, I want hard data to look at. Otherwise I think you're just being fatalistic.
Originally posted by RX7FD3
... As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone...
... As far as number or data Im just guessing and i might be wrong, im just commenting based on how many cars ive been seing in this forum and how many cars have been taken back in the 2 locals mazda dealers alone...
Come ONE folks, this is a BRAND NEW model of car, with a BRAND NEW engine design. You expect it to be 100% perfect from the instant it is released? There is no freakin way! Criminy!
If you really want to predict doom and gloom for the car, FINE, either DON'T BUY IT or SELL IT BACK if you already have. Just STOP trying to bring all of the rest of us, who love the HELL out of this car, down with you!!!
I'm sorry, this is not personal at RX7FD3 or Ike WRX, I'm just getting tired of people who consistantly bash the car.
Last edited by Omicron; 11-17-2003 at 05:38 PM.
11-17-2003, 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by allstate
I've heard so much talk on this forum lately about "all these problems" the RX-8 is having. Keep in mind that this forum is dedicated solely for the purpose of discussing the RX-8. Human nature dictates that people will discuss negative issues much faster than they will positive issues. Just because there are isolated problems doesn't mean the RX-8 is a bad vehicle. If you visit any other car enthusiast forum whether it is the 350z forum or BMW forum you will find problems. Does that mean that those cars are bad? Not at all. Every make and model has its own issues. The RX-8 is no exception. Only time will determine the success/failure of a vehicle. So please...no more of this doom and gloom talk about how the RX-8 is a failure. Talk to us in 5 years.
Now back to our reguarly scheduled programming....:D
I've heard so much talk on this forum lately about "all these problems" the RX-8 is having. Keep in mind that this forum is dedicated solely for the purpose of discussing the RX-8. Human nature dictates that people will discuss negative issues much faster than they will positive issues. Just because there are isolated problems doesn't mean the RX-8 is a bad vehicle. If you visit any other car enthusiast forum whether it is the 350z forum or BMW forum you will find problems. Does that mean that those cars are bad? Not at all. Every make and model has its own issues. The RX-8 is no exception. Only time will determine the success/failure of a vehicle. So please...no more of this doom and gloom talk about how the RX-8 is a failure. Talk to us in 5 years.
Now back to our reguarly scheduled programming....:D
11-17-2003, 05:33 PM
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Re: RX8s arent doing well, Bye bye new generation RX-7s :(
What I think is this: you don't post any references to any information that forms the basis of your speculations (which are confusingly stated in factual form).
just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.
This sounds ridiculous... where are you getting this info from?
just as many as they sell in numbers, similar numbers are coming back for repairs due to transmition or engine failures.
This sounds ridiculous... where are you getting this info from?
11-17-2003, 05:38 PM
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Anyone should know that engine failures reported on this forum are a very poor representation of how good or bad the RX8 rollout has been thus far.
Like I have said in other posts when people get all worked up over posts explaining someones bad experiences..........
Before message boards were around, there would be no way of knowing that a guy in Bangor Maine had an engine failure or a bad tranny showed up in Australia. It is the very nature of this format that shows "random" data. It is by no means scientific, and should not be interpreted as a problem in manufacturing. I would venture to guess that the RX8 is considered a success even in a quality control standpoint.
It would never occur to me to make a post that basically said that the RX8 has been plagued with issues in its short life as a production vehicle. First of all.....a message board is RX7FD's source of data......enough said on that.
Those who are here to be constructive, learn and share knowlege that they know to be accurate, are an asset to the forum. Those few who want to be "the messenger" of information, but really know very little about the very car this forum is supposed to be about, are bringing the level of quality down for everyone.
Like I have said in other posts when people get all worked up over posts explaining someones bad experiences..........
Before message boards were around, there would be no way of knowing that a guy in Bangor Maine had an engine failure or a bad tranny showed up in Australia. It is the very nature of this format that shows "random" data. It is by no means scientific, and should not be interpreted as a problem in manufacturing. I would venture to guess that the RX8 is considered a success even in a quality control standpoint.
It would never occur to me to make a post that basically said that the RX8 has been plagued with issues in its short life as a production vehicle. First of all.....a message board is RX7FD's source of data......enough said on that.
Those who are here to be constructive, learn and share knowlege that they know to be accurate, are an asset to the forum. Those few who want to be "the messenger" of information, but really know very little about the very car this forum is supposed to be about, are bringing the level of quality down for everyone.
Last edited by Gyro; 11-17-2003 at 06:04 PM.
11-17-2003, 06:20 PM
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Gee, i didnt mean to **** anyone off. I didnt state facts, i clearly said "it seems" and i said is my own opinion and i also said that this is solely based on the number of RX-8s going bad on the forum.
Calm down you guys, damn. Rotary owners have been known for being nice and not stock up or aggresive towards outsiders. I keep getting that feeling in this forum.
Anyways going back to the topic. It was just especulations on my end and i said that more than once so i wouldnt get this type of verbal assalt from forum members.
I really like the RX-8 and I am an RX-7 owner who will be buying an RX-8 as well. No reason to get nasty with me.
I agree, is too early in the game to come up with numbers or especulations, 4-5 years down the road it would be fair thing to look at, The purpose of this thread is to seek for opinion on this matter or may be even feedback of those whose cars have gone down.
Opinion is appreciated. Thank you or are we all here to see who answers threads in the most nastiest way possible.?
Calm down you guys, damn. Rotary owners have been known for being nice and not stock up or aggresive towards outsiders. I keep getting that feeling in this forum.
Anyways going back to the topic. It was just especulations on my end and i said that more than once so i wouldnt get this type of verbal assalt from forum members.
I really like the RX-8 and I am an RX-7 owner who will be buying an RX-8 as well. No reason to get nasty with me.
I agree, is too early in the game to come up with numbers or especulations, 4-5 years down the road it would be fair thing to look at, The purpose of this thread is to seek for opinion on this matter or may be even feedback of those whose cars have gone down.
Opinion is appreciated. Thank you or are we all here to see who answers threads in the most nastiest way possible.?
Last edited by RX7FD3; 11-17-2003 at 06:22 PM.
11-17-2003, 06:28 PM
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RX7FD3, your heading is deceptive...
It implied that you had actual information, not just speculation. For those like me, that don't always read the posts, please change it to something more accurate like, "Why I think the RX8s arent doing well and why there will be no new generation RX-7s"
It implied that you had actual information, not just speculation. For those like me, that don't always read the posts, please change it to something more accurate like, "Why I think the RX8s arent doing well and why there will be no new generation RX-7s
"
11-17-2003, 06:55 PM
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My RX-8 is friggin' perfect. An ECU reflash is the only thing I would change. Reliability isn't an issue with my particular car.
One case of bad news is worth 1000 cases of good news. (Nobody complains when there isn't anything wrong)
One case of bad news is worth 1000 cases of good news. (Nobody complains when there isn't anything wrong)
11-17-2003, 07:13 PM
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I think it's all going to end very badly for Mazda and the Rotary.This is pure speculation, and I hope it's not the case. I'd love to see a new RX-7, but at this point I wonder if the RX-8 is even going to make it longer than the FD
I do however think the engine issue is more than just first year problems that most cars experience. Besides we're just going to get a bunch of responses from RX-8 owners that have had their car a whopping 5k miles and haven't had any problems...
11-17-2003, 07:18 PM
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Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.
This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.
VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...
I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.
There is no market for the RX8.
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.
This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.
VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...
I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.
There is no market for the RX8.
11-17-2003, 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by RaidenSky
IkeWRX and SkylineManiac ought to be brothers. They make little compliments about the RX-8 to avoid getting totally flamed while throwing in unsupported, negative comments about the RX-8 in what seems like some attempt to convince us our cars are crap.
IkeWRX and SkylineManiac ought to be brothers. They make little compliments about the RX-8 to avoid getting totally flamed while throwing in unsupported, negative comments about the RX-8 in what seems like some attempt to convince us our cars are crap.
11-17-2003, 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Captain_Ron
Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.
This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.
VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...
I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.
There is no market for the RX8.
Backorder in Europe? LOL? That must be a joke?
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km! They would have to price the RX8 at $5,000 Euro for anyone to buy it.
This summer I went to Europe, and half of what I saw is either diesel or economic gas.
VW = All Diesels.
Audi = A3 Diesel, A4 Diesel, Avant Diesels...
Benz = Every Class has diesel except CL/SL/SLK I think
Toyota = Amazing diesel engines ect...
I was staying at a Hotel and Germany this summer, was talking to the owner about cars and he was complaining about his Passat TDI only got 5.8L/100km. The RX8 is 18L/100km.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.
There is no market for the RX8.
Do you have any other sweeping statements to make, or did that one exhaust you?
11-17-2003, 07:42 PM
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I can't believe I'm plunging into this, but...
So what about all those BMW 316's, 318's, 320's, 325's, and 330's
(not to mention all the entry level Mercedes-C and E class) I saw flying all over the autobahn/autostrasse in Germany, Italy, France, and everything in between while I was over there for 3 years? Oh, yeah, and I'm talking about those cars as GAS powered, not diesel. Not to mention a number of Opel's, Alpha Romeo's, and of course, the VW's that will compete in both price and gas mileage with the RX-8. These are popular cars in Europe and I'm sure the RX-8 will be popular, too, despite the fact that Europe's gas prices are insane.
There are many little 3 cylinder gas and 4-6 cyl. diesels over there, but there are just as many 4-6 cyl performance oriented engines/cars that blow thru gas just as much as the RX-8, if not more.
Say you're wrong! There is no doubt in my mind the RX-8 will be competitive.
Who in Europe would buy a 18L/100km!
People who have money in Europe just buy M3, M5, 5 Series, CLK, CL, A6, A8.
(not to mention all the entry level Mercedes-C and E class) I saw flying all over the autobahn/autostrasse in Germany, Italy, France, and everything in between while I was over there for 3 years? Oh, yeah, and I'm talking about those cars as GAS powered, not diesel. Not to mention a number of Opel's, Alpha Romeo's, and of course, the VW's that will compete in both price and gas mileage with the RX-8. These are popular cars in Europe and I'm sure the RX-8 will be popular, too, despite the fact that Europe's gas prices are insane.
There are many little 3 cylinder gas and 4-6 cyl. diesels over there, but there are just as many 4-6 cyl performance oriented engines/cars that blow thru gas just as much as the RX-8, if not more.
If it sells in Europe, I don't know what to say.