RX8 vs. TL Type S
12-28-2007, 12:00 PM
#26
And again why it made sense...its a nice compromise...wonderful chassis, not too bad insurance, practically track ready by default...and four seats...
the 8s are cheaper. i could find a slick 2005 or 2006 for 20k easy. i'd probably lower the 8 with springs, amybe do coilovers. i don't plan to track the car more than one or twice a year...so if i could get by cheaper on shocks/springs I'd do that. sway bars and braces maybe. intake exhasut would be fun, but i hear you don't get much power out othem, mostly just noise.... if/when the car got a clutch id' do a flywheel....but if i get a low mileage car, that wouldn't be for a while. when do the cluthces normally need to be replaced?
i'd try to keep the mods minimal. no way i'd go FI or nitrous. i'd just do suspension to make it handle like it's on rails and maybe exhaust to have it sound cool. i'd find one with the body kit as i think that looks slick. and it would have to be white. i LOVE the white pearl RX8s. the TL-S comes in pearl too..beautfiul color on both cars.
i'll report ack after i drive the cars.
i'd try to keep the mods minimal. no way i'd go FI or nitrous. i'd just do suspension to make it handle like it's on rails and maybe exhaust to have it sound cool. i'd find one with the body kit as i think that looks slick. and it would have to be white. i LOVE the white pearl RX8s. the TL-S comes in pearl too..beautfiul color on both cars.
i'll report ack after i drive the cars.
Replace things to "tweak" feel...track it...tweak...rinse...repeat...
Overall, I'm very happy...I'm sure eventually I will break something...but that's simply the nature of the thing. Some of us like working on cars to an unhealthy degree I guess...
12-28-2007, 12:10 PM
#28
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The -8 is not for you. 5 mile trips are not what this car is made for. You need the TL, which is still relatively fun to drive (if you can get used to those damned touchy brakes and damned lagging gas pedal...), and is better suited for "family" use.
My sister has a TL, and I've driven it quite a bit. It's good for what it is, a "sporty" sedan, but I'll take my 8 over it any day of the week. Then again, I'm single, have a 15 mile commute, and don't really have any need for anything larger than the 8 in the first place. And I like taking trips to the country to the twisties in both the 8 and on my motorcycle. The TL is too civilized for my tastes for that.
My sister has a TL, and I've driven it quite a bit. It's good for what it is, a "sporty" sedan, but I'll take my 8 over it any day of the week. Then again, I'm single, have a 15 mile commute, and don't really have any need for anything larger than the 8 in the first place. And I like taking trips to the country to the twisties in both the 8 and on my motorcycle. The TL is too civilized for my tastes for that.
12-28-2007, 12:11 PM
#29
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i assume her car is the auto with the paddle shifters.... which I test drive. very nice. for a daily driver it is nice. kinda sporty feeling with a lot of luxury appointments. I'd say it is a VERY good job at blending a luxury sedan with just enough "racey"stuff to make it sporty but not LOOK or FEEL rIcey. it still looks classy and luxurious, but iwth just a touch of sportiness.... nice blend of the two without ruinign the overall classiness of the Acura. but yeah, the FWD part of it is was sucks. the next gen TL is rumored to be SH-AWD...then it will be a much more sporty car in the handling dept. i was suprised though, when i test drove it, it really didn't feel like a FWD car that was plowing or had torque steer. and i got to drive it on a twisty road with some good turns and while i wasn't pushign it at the limits, i was at 7/10ths or 8/10s on a few turns and it was a blast. maybe at the total limits it would start to show its true colors and plow/ feel like a torque steering pig when you powered out of low speed turns..but just zig zagging trhough some average speed esses - like your typical small country road..when you arne't trying to race someone, or see "how fast you can go"...but going "quicikly" it was FUN. back seats could fit three kids if you needed it too.
gotta test drive them. i WILL report back.
12-28-2007, 12:26 PM
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To me it sounds like the s2000 or rx8 would be your best bet (as that seems like what you're really looking for -> a fun car).
this may have been stated earlier but if you get an rx-8 you'll need to keep up on the maintanence (i don't mean **** falls apart, I mean things like oil, etc.) The other part I'm worried about is the gas mileage you'll get. Really think about that before you make your purchase.
Aside from that though, it's a wonderful car. I'll be driving mine till it's dust.
this may have been stated earlier but if you get an rx-8 you'll need to keep up on the maintanence (i don't mean **** falls apart, I mean things like oil, etc.) The other part I'm worried about is the gas mileage you'll get. Really think about that before you make your purchase.
Aside from that though, it's a wonderful car. I'll be driving mine till it's dust.
12-28-2007, 12:53 PM
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I was in this same boat.
Although the TL is sporty and has power, it doesnt look like a sports car. to me looks was a key factor. I didnt just want to have fun, I wanted it to look like it was fun from the outside too. I would keep your daily to keep putting miles and drive the 8 on the weekends.
Although the TL is sporty and has power, it doesnt look like a sports car. to me looks was a key factor. I didnt just want to have fun, I wanted it to look like it was fun from the outside too. I would keep your daily to keep putting miles and drive the 8 on the weekends.
12-28-2007, 02:16 PM
#35
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1999 Volvo? 130K?
That's barely halfway through its life. You've got the box-on-wheels end covered.
Get a sports car. If you like the 8 and the numbers work, get it. You could even get a Miata, but you'd be forced to drive that a lot more, giving each of your kids a turn as passenger.
Your 7 mile, 10 minute commute is long enough for the 8 to warm up if you want to take that to work some of the time. I'm sure you'll be putting longer fun trips on the 8, so it will get cleaned out every now and then. Remember to drive the Volvo at least once every week or two so it doesn't atrophy.
Ken
That's barely halfway through its life. You've got the box-on-wheels end covered.
Get a sports car. If you like the 8 and the numbers work, get it. You could even get a Miata, but you'd be forced to drive that a lot more, giving each of your kids a turn as passenger.
Your 7 mile, 10 minute commute is long enough for the 8 to warm up if you want to take that to work some of the time. I'm sure you'll be putting longer fun trips on the 8, so it will get cleaned out every now and then. Remember to drive the Volvo at least once every week or two so it doesn't atrophy.
Ken
12-28-2007, 02:41 PM
#36
I'll snap his neck.
We have an 05 RX-8 AT and an 05 Acura TL AT with nav. I really like both cars, but they are different as many posts have illustrated. I can't compare directly to the type-S, but it has a bigger motor and more aggresive chassis tuning that ours.
RX-8: more tossable, better in the twisties and on a track.
TL: more luxiourous, better mileage.
Another thing to consider is that you will not own anything at the end of a lease. If you can have the same monthly payment for the same length of time, and then own something at the end, I would think that is a better option.
The TL will probably have better safety features and ratings than your older car, so if you are carrying your family around a lot, that might be a consideration.
I would also consider a used Miata for a fun car. Tons of aftermarket support, great handling, top down, etc. And like others have said a used S2000 is a good choice. I don't known much about them, but I believe they have a lot of aftermarket support to help with the "modding" bug.
One thing as far as modding goes: engine mods for the 8 that make a difference, namely forced induction, are going to be more expensive than a lot of other cars. You can get decent FI kits for a Miata a lot cheaper than a decent FI kit for an 8. I think that is due to the smaller market of the 8, rotary community, etc.
If I were you I'd look at car magazine's websites to read reviews of what they thought. For a FWD, the TL handles well, and the type-S supposedly handles the torque steer issue very well compared to most FWD cars.
I use my 8 for a lot of short trips, and so far haven't had a problem because of that, but I only have 18K miles on it. I do make sure to run it to redline at full throttle at least once every day I drive it, and often every time I drive it.
If I forget to check this thread again, feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions for me.
RX-8: more tossable, better in the twisties and on a track.
TL: more luxiourous, better mileage.
Another thing to consider is that you will not own anything at the end of a lease. If you can have the same monthly payment for the same length of time, and then own something at the end, I would think that is a better option.
The TL will probably have better safety features and ratings than your older car, so if you are carrying your family around a lot, that might be a consideration.
I would also consider a used Miata for a fun car. Tons of aftermarket support, great handling, top down, etc. And like others have said a used S2000 is a good choice. I don't known much about them, but I believe they have a lot of aftermarket support to help with the "modding" bug.
One thing as far as modding goes: engine mods for the 8 that make a difference, namely forced induction, are going to be more expensive than a lot of other cars. You can get decent FI kits for a Miata a lot cheaper than a decent FI kit for an 8. I think that is due to the smaller market of the 8, rotary community, etc.
If I were you I'd look at car magazine's websites to read reviews of what they thought. For a FWD, the TL handles well, and the type-S supposedly handles the torque steer issue very well compared to most FWD cars.
I use my 8 for a lot of short trips, and so far haven't had a problem because of that, but I only have 18K miles on it. I do make sure to run it to redline at full throttle at least once every day I drive it, and often every time I drive it.
If I forget to check this thread again, feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions for me.
12-28-2007, 03:52 PM
#37
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wow. thanks for all the info and suggestions.
my volvo at 130k is still going strong. my mechanic said it will run to 200k no problem. teh thing has gobs of torque and pulls like a freight train. it weights 3200 lbs or so and has 250ish hp (T5 model with a cat back exhaust!) torque figures are up there aroudn 250 and it comes on hard at low rpm...3k rpm and you are going fast. totally different than the 8. but on turns/twisties - teh Volvo is NO FUN AT ALL. HORRID.
the RX8 or S2k would satisfy me "sports car" urge. the S2k would be totally mipractical, I coulnd' really take kids in it anywhere. it would really be a toy - for me to drive to/from work on fRidays, on weekend drives by myself (which I don't get to do very often as I have 3 kids) - or if my wife and had a sitter and went out to dinner - we could take the s2k.
an RX8 would have the similar fun tossable nature of the s2k but the back seats would give it more usability. i could get 2-3 kids in it, or my wife and a coule of kids...never could get the whole family...but there are times where one of us (*me or wife) go somewhere and take just one or two kids..and the other stays home with the other kids...so for those trips to the store, across town etc...the 8 would have much more usability. still could not take the whole family anywhere in it...but for the rare times where I got to sneak away for a few hours to drive, it would still be fun.
the TL-S would just replace my volvo and basically be a daily driver that could sort of be fun to drive, but it wouldn't really be a true sports car.
the bad part about dumping my 99 volvo is that while it's got 130k on it, it 's still running nice and it's paid off. as a sale or trade i'll get at most 2500-4000 out of it which isn't a whol elot...but as a spare car, it's inherent worth to me is more than that. it's almost at a point where it makes more sense to keep it and use it than to get a few grand out of it. there are going to be times where i don't want to put miles on my SUV but i need the big back seats..or i'll have to take some commute somwhere and not take a nice car, etc etc...and having a decent car, but one that is sort of a beater/not worth a lot of money, etc... is nice to have. if i couls sell it and get 8-10k for it, that would be enough money to make a big dent in another car payment..but 3k.... i can just take 3k out of my bank and use that mney to pay down the loan/down payment and save my volvo as a third car. i guess what i'm saying is the cr is worth more than 3k to ME, but on the open market...tha't all i'm gonna get for it. so might as well keep it.
if i keep my volvo, it makes less sense to get another 4 door sedan. it would be more fun to ge a pure sports car. i'd love a boxster or somethign, but no thanks i dont' want the used porsche and the associated repair costs.
my volvo at 130k is still going strong. my mechanic said it will run to 200k no problem. teh thing has gobs of torque and pulls like a freight train. it weights 3200 lbs or so and has 250ish hp (T5 model with a cat back exhaust!) torque figures are up there aroudn 250 and it comes on hard at low rpm...3k rpm and you are going fast. totally different than the 8. but on turns/twisties - teh Volvo is NO FUN AT ALL. HORRID.
the RX8 or S2k would satisfy me "sports car" urge. the S2k would be totally mipractical, I coulnd' really take kids in it anywhere. it would really be a toy - for me to drive to/from work on fRidays, on weekend drives by myself (which I don't get to do very often as I have 3 kids) - or if my wife and had a sitter and went out to dinner - we could take the s2k.
an RX8 would have the similar fun tossable nature of the s2k but the back seats would give it more usability. i could get 2-3 kids in it, or my wife and a coule of kids...never could get the whole family...but there are times where one of us (*me or wife) go somewhere and take just one or two kids..and the other stays home with the other kids...so for those trips to the store, across town etc...the 8 would have much more usability. still could not take the whole family anywhere in it...but for the rare times where I got to sneak away for a few hours to drive, it would still be fun.
the TL-S would just replace my volvo and basically be a daily driver that could sort of be fun to drive, but it wouldn't really be a true sports car.
the bad part about dumping my 99 volvo is that while it's got 130k on it, it 's still running nice and it's paid off. as a sale or trade i'll get at most 2500-4000 out of it which isn't a whol elot...but as a spare car, it's inherent worth to me is more than that. it's almost at a point where it makes more sense to keep it and use it than to get a few grand out of it. there are going to be times where i don't want to put miles on my SUV but i need the big back seats..or i'll have to take some commute somwhere and not take a nice car, etc etc...and having a decent car, but one that is sort of a beater/not worth a lot of money, etc... is nice to have. if i couls sell it and get 8-10k for it, that would be enough money to make a big dent in another car payment..but 3k.... i can just take 3k out of my bank and use that mney to pay down the loan/down payment and save my volvo as a third car. i guess what i'm saying is the cr is worth more than 3k to ME, but on the open market...tha't all i'm gonna get for it. so might as well keep it.
if i keep my volvo, it makes less sense to get another 4 door sedan. it would be more fun to ge a pure sports car. i'd love a boxster or somethign, but no thanks i dont' want the used porsche and the associated repair costs.
12-28-2007, 04:20 PM
#38
1935 lbs. FTW!
I could second the Miata+TL-S combo. My brother drives an 01 CL-S handed down to him when my dad got an 06 S2000. After daily driving my Miata and weekend driving the Elise it was actually quite comfortable and relaxing to drive the automatic CL with plush heated seats, Nav and quiet interior plus good torque for 0-30 off the line acceleration.
The Miata is tons of fun, cheap to maintain, cheap on gas and insurance and can be found for 3-5K all day long in good shape. It'd be nice to have the best of both worlds. FYI after I bought the Miata in April 2007 my RX-8 only put on an additional 1.200 miles over the next 6 months. It sat in the garage basically until I sold it in November and was no longer fun to drive.
Of course you can't go wrong with a used S2000 either. I love our 00 as well as dad's 06 and they're both dead reliable.
The Miata is tons of fun, cheap to maintain, cheap on gas and insurance and can be found for 3-5K all day long in good shape. It'd be nice to have the best of both worlds. FYI after I bought the Miata in April 2007 my RX-8 only put on an additional 1.200 miles over the next 6 months. It sat in the garage basically until I sold it in November and was no longer fun to drive.
Of course you can't go wrong with a used S2000 either. I love our 00 as well as dad's 06 and they're both dead reliable.
12-28-2007, 04:37 PM
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driven against a TL type S. Beat him in straight line. No need to race one in the twisties because that WON'T be fair. That's like an 8 trying to race an EVO in a drag race. TL S just can not keep up with an 8.
I say get an 8 and a Subaru Legacy. Legacies have a ton of tuning potential, go in the snow, and are quite nice IMHO.
I say get an 8 and a Subaru Legacy. Legacies have a ton of tuning potential, go in the snow, and are quite nice IMHO.
12-28-2007, 04:39 PM
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I don't think you could even start to compare the two, but it seems many people already have. They are two different cars, for two different reasons.
RX8 - Twisties & Auto-X
TL-S- Night Out In Town Luxurious
RX8 - Twisties & Auto-X
TL-S- Night Out In Town Luxurious
12-28-2007, 05:09 PM
#41
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I so agree with you on that one, 23109VC. The older Volvo cars get, the less and less they become fun to drive. We also have a Volvo sedan - a '95 Volvo 960 - running now at about 160k. It's actually still running fine although the shocks needs to be replace since the ride is getting a bit bouncy. But it's still a reliable car in getting us from point A to point B. No engine troubles what so ever. My wife bought the sedan back in '94 and boy was it a blast to drive - both in short and long trips. Later on I bought a '98 Dodge Ram 1500 truck to replace my '85 Toyota Celica GTS. This was when we used to live in SoCal. Two kids later and moving up to Seattle, we traded in the Dodge for an '03 Honda Odyssey. By then the Volvo wasn't a fun drive anymore. My wife and I purchased an '06 RX-8 6MT Grand Touring because we wanted something fun. Plus we already have the Volvo and Odyssey all paid off. I originally wanted to get a 350Z, but since we occasionally wanted to bring our two kids too when we want to have some fun - we opted for the RX8. So along with the RX8, we still have the Odyssey and Volvo in our collection. We could've traded in the Volvo when we got the RX8, but decided to keep it and use it for daily drives. We are actually planning to trade in the Odyssey for a CX9 since our kids seem to have graduated from the "minivan stage." And then we'll be trading the Volvo for an Acura TL Type-S, which my wife loves so much after we test drove one a few months back. I'm definitely keeping the RX8 and plan to give it to my son once he gets into high school. But after reading about the new Nissan GTR more and more, its getting really hard for me not to think about trading in the RX8 for the new Nissan GTR. 
Anyways, sorry for the long write up. Just thought I'd let you know what my current "car situation" is at the moment before I tell you my recommendation to you.
I say keep your Volvo and get the RX8. It'll save you some money and maybe in the future once you got more money saved up, it'll be easier for you to trade in the Volvo and get the Acura TL Type-S you also wanted. Then you can have both of them.
Cheers.
And then we'll be trading the Volvo for an Acura TL Type-S, which my wife loves so much after we test drove one a few months back. I'm definitely keeping the RX8 and plan to give it to my son once he gets into high school. But after reading about the new Nissan GTR more and more, its getting really hard for me not to think about trading in the RX8 for the new Nissan GTR. Anyways, sorry for the long write up. Just thought I'd let you know what my current "car situation" is at the moment before I tell you my recommendation to you.
I say keep your Volvo and get the RX8. It'll save you some money and maybe in the future once you got more money saved up, it'll be easier for you to trade in the Volvo and get the Acura TL Type-S you also wanted. Then you can have both of them.
Cheers.
12-28-2007, 06:01 PM
#43
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the TL forum would point out how rx8s lose their value quick, eat gas, blow engines, have no torque, and are slow.
Pretty much every other car forum says all of the above when the 8 is mentioned.
Pretty much every other car forum says all of the above when the 8 is mentioned.
12-28-2007, 06:57 PM
#44
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i'm one person on here that has the rx-8 and an '05 acura TL.
seriously, if you just want the "toy" factor, go with S2k. i would've, but i need a 4 seater now. and if you are just driving to work by yourself with your new car, then the 2 seater can definitely be easier on the gas. and chicks love convertibles. not only that, the S2k is also 50/50 weight dist and is a lot more fun and handles better.
TL- if you are selling your sedan and getting another 5 seater to replace it. the TL is a VERY nice car. and for a professional 35 y/o, this car is what you bring for nice night out of town. the TL will handle just as well as the 8, given its aluminum sub-frame (acura/honda also has a few tricks up there sleeve) , but the chase will just not be the same. both TL and the 8 are awewsome outta the box. and its hard to modify either. if you do, its more of a preference thing...
lets face it, the rotary engine is NOT for everyone. we can be enthusiasts, but that doesn't mean we have to pitch the sale to everyone else...
so believe me, go with the TL for ur replacement. get a S2k if ur keeping the sedan and need a "toy". the 8 should be last on ur list as its only a 4seater; a good suitable car for someone thats a mechanically inclined rotary enthusiast and may consider a family.
seriously, if you just want the "toy" factor, go with S2k. i would've, but i need a 4 seater now. and if you are just driving to work by yourself with your new car, then the 2 seater can definitely be easier on the gas. and chicks love convertibles. not only that, the S2k is also 50/50 weight dist and is a lot more fun and handles better.
TL- if you are selling your sedan and getting another 5 seater to replace it. the TL is a VERY nice car. and for a professional 35 y/o, this car is what you bring for nice night out of town. the TL will handle just as well as the 8, given its aluminum sub-frame (acura/honda also has a few tricks up there sleeve) , but the chase will just not be the same. both TL and the 8 are awewsome outta the box. and its hard to modify either. if you do, its more of a preference thing...
lets face it, the rotary engine is NOT for everyone. we can be enthusiasts, but that doesn't mean we have to pitch the sale to everyone else...
so believe me, go with the TL for ur replacement. get a S2k if ur keeping the sedan and need a "toy". the 8 should be last on ur list as its only a 4seater; a good suitable car for someone thats a mechanically inclined rotary enthusiast and may consider a family.
Last edited by TrochoidMagic; 12-28-2007 at 07:16 PM.
12-29-2007, 10:47 AM
#46
The MT is a whole nuther ballpark than your interpretation on a daily driver basis.
12-29-2007, 10:53 AM
#47
12-29-2007, 12:08 PM
#48
I'll snap his neck.
I think the comparison I made holds true with either tranny:
"RX-8: more tossable, better in the twisties and on a track.
TL: more luxiourous, better mileage."
Or were you referring to something about the short trips?
My statement in that FI options for the 8 are generally expensive also holds true regardless of the tranny.
Given his posts, I think he's made up his mind to go with the 8. Which I think is a good choice for what he wants. After all, it is a chance to own a rotary, and a lot of people never get to have the experience of doing that. And he will be able to keep it in really good shape as he'll have another car to drive when the weather is bad. And he'll actually own the car when he is done paying for it, unlike the TL which he'd be leasing.
12-29-2007, 11:27 PM
#49
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The new TL-S is really, really quick. I had a CL-S 6 speed at the same time I had my MT 04 RX-8, and the handling of the RX-8 was light-years ahead of the CL. The CL was quicker off the line though - and an 03 CL-S is no match for a new (07 or 08) TL-S.
I disagree with the people who have said that an RX-8 would beat a new TL-S in a drag. The previous-gen, sure... but not the new one.
However, if you're looking for a fun car, there are few that can compare to an RX-8. You should also realize that if you're not planning on putting lots of miles on the car, and you take good care of it, you might go for years with no serious issues. I certainly did.
For the last year of my RX-8 lease I had a brand-new STi to drive - and I still got behind the wheel of the RX-8 about half the time. I love my STi but the RX-8 really is that good.
Good luck with your decision - you've got your eye on some fantastic automobiles.
I disagree with the people who have said that an RX-8 would beat a new TL-S in a drag. The previous-gen, sure... but not the new one.
However, if you're looking for a fun car, there are few that can compare to an RX-8. You should also realize that if you're not planning on putting lots of miles on the car, and you take good care of it, you might go for years with no serious issues. I certainly did.
For the last year of my RX-8 lease I had a brand-new STi to drive - and I still got behind the wheel of the RX-8 about half the time. I love my STi but the RX-8 really is that good.
Good luck with your decision - you've got your eye on some fantastic automobiles.
12-30-2007, 01:03 AM
#50
1935 lbs. FTW!
The new TL-S is really, really quick. I had a CL-S 6 speed at the same time I had my MT 04 RX-8, and the handling of the RX-8 was light-years ahead of the CL. The CL was quicker off the line though - and an 03 CL-S is no match for a new (07 or 08) TL-S.
I disagree with the people who have said that an RX-8 would beat a new TL-S in a drag. The previous-gen, sure... but not the new one.
However, if you're looking for a fun car, there are few that can compare to an RX-8. You should also realize that if you're not planning on putting lots of miles on the car, and you take good care of it, you might go for years with no serious issues. I certainly did.
For the last year of my RX-8 lease I had a brand-new STi to drive - and I still got behind the wheel of the RX-8 about half the time. I love my STi but the RX-8 really is that good.
Good luck with your decision - you've got your eye on some fantastic automobiles.
I disagree with the people who have said that an RX-8 would beat a new TL-S in a drag. The previous-gen, sure... but not the new one.
However, if you're looking for a fun car, there are few that can compare to an RX-8. You should also realize that if you're not planning on putting lots of miles on the car, and you take good care of it, you might go for years with no serious issues. I certainly did.
For the last year of my RX-8 lease I had a brand-new STi to drive - and I still got behind the wheel of the RX-8 about half the time. I love my STi but the RX-8 really is that good.
Good luck with your decision - you've got your eye on some fantastic automobiles.
I think the 03 CL-S with 6spd and LSD would handle a stock RX-8 MT in any drag race. Those cars were running low to mid 14's @ 99 mph. The fastest RX-8 I've ever seen was a mid 14 @ 95. With comptech headers/intake the CL-S gained about 30 whp and ran a 14 flat @ 100+ mph.
The RX-8 is just about the slowest RWD sports car you can get (short of the Miata) as far as acceleration goes, just face it. I got my *** handed to me by a new GTI with 4 high school kids in it from a 20 mph roll to 100 and it wasn't even chipped, now that's sad.