turbotaz

So I thought I was all set on a Cooper S. Then I heard that the Mazda RX-8 was now available through my work's S-plan discount. I can get a Mazda RX-8 with the GT package for a tick under $28K. That is only a $3K more than a similarly equipped MCS (assuming no discount on MCS) for a $31 sticker car. I am seriously considering it, though there are some obvious drawbacks. First, it's more money. Reliability is questionable and so is the resale value, so I would end up leasing. There is no standard spare tire and no runflats. 18'' tires are a lot more expensive to replace than 16'' if one is to reguarly take the car to auto-x. On the other hand, it is a rear wheel drive car with 50/50 balance, which should be a bit more fun at an auto-x. It has more rear seat space and more trunk space. The rear doors make it easeier to put child seats in the back. The back seat area is probably also safer for the occupants since it is not so close to the rear bumper.

My requirements for a car are that it be sporty, suitable for auto-x, and would fit 2 adults and 2 kids in child seats for short trips. Both the mini and RX-8 suit that purpose just fine.

Any additional thoughts/suggestions?

julian

yikes, two childs seats in either car would not be the easiest. i guess it's ok as long as it isn't their main mode of transportation.

you said you'd lease the rx but you didn't clariy if you get a mini, would you buy or lease? i'm not a fan of leasing so if you buy, then i'd say get the mini. unless you don't keep your cars longer than 3 years anyway.

i thought the mini with 16" wheels also had run flats?

the s-plan for a base rx is just under 25k but you probably knew that already.

turbotaz

I should clarify. The mini has 16'' and has runflats, which I view as a benefit for street driving. Having no spare seems like a strange idea, but I do not want to lose the trunk space and to spend the additional $ for the spare.

If I go with the Mini, I would buy and keep it for a very long time. Judging by the current demand, the resale value on it should remain good.

If I go with RX-8, I would lease. The fact that RX-8 is already readily avilable for under MSRP plus the negative publicity relating to the HP issue makes me worry about the resale value of the RX-8. Also, the longetivity of the Renesis engine is not known, so I do not see owning it past the warranty period.

And yes, this will not be the primary family car, but kids need to fit in it when I want to go for a short drive in town and do not want to take the family car.

Gord96BRG

Kids and kid seats fit fine in the back - adults fit fine! My 15 yr old son is 6'0", and is comfortable behind me (5'10"). My 5 yr old's booster seat fits fine on the other side. NO problems.

If you're going to autocross - just get light 17" wheels and tires - ultimately cheaper than buying 18" tires repeatedly, and lighter too (I got 17x7" Konig Holes for winter wheels, and they're 6 lbs each lighter than the OEM wheels). If you want, burn off the OEM 18s first, buy runflat replacements (the RE-040 in OEM size are available as runflats), then get the 17" autocross wheels/tires.

Questionable reliability? I'll dispute that completely - I've got over 6K miles on mine, and it's been completely reliable. Except for some people who've had engines replaced (between 20 to 70 out of 14K RX-8s produced, and even then many weren't failures but tiny leaks that never disabled the car), there are very few problems that will be reliability related. You'll actually find that reliability and quality are much more of an issue on the MCS!

Depreciation? Check out how older RX-7s and Miatas have held their value - they are among the lowest for depreciation. Mazda sports cars hold value very well. Further, while the 3rd gen 93-95 twin-turbo RX-7 motor wasn't that durable and was prone to cooling problems, earlier normally aspirated rotary Mazdas were considered bulletproof and very long-lived. There's no reason to expect less from the normally aspirated RX-8, since the issues from the last RX-7 were all addressed.

Lastly - drive both! See which is more satisfying to drive... :D

Regards,
Gordon

DisneyDestroyer

Gonna have have to agree with Gord here, I'd say the 8 is better for everything you've mentioned - better back seat space for the kids / seats, better performance, and better reliability. Check out http://www.mini2.com/forums the "Faults and Fixes" section to see just how bad the mini's reliability is.

As for depreciation, keep in mind that you're already getting a 5k bonus on the 8 because you're starting out with the s-plan discount.

s13lover

Runflats aren't cheap to replace and they don't handle as well as non runflats.

downshift

Turbotaz,

I suggest that you test drive both side by side and see for yourself which one is more fun for you. I've done that and felt that the MCS' steering is wonderful. However, I think the RX-8 excels in the other areas, particularly the shifter feel, pedal placement and better NVH (noise, vibrations, harshness) damping. But then, the MCS has other niceties like auto climate control. Test drive both, and then determine whether the RX-8's fun to drive ownership outweighs the price difference and the worries on reliability.

G8rboy

I can't comment on the reliability of the RX8 yet, but as for the Mini, I almost traded my Miata in when the 'S' came out. My buddy bought a 2002, and while he loved it when it was running, it was in the shop quite a bit. The blower had to be replaced twice, and other assorted little nagging problems kept it coming back.

I think that in most cases, a well-maintained naturally aspirated engine will have a more problem-free life than one with forced induction... even something new like the renesis rotary.

-Sean
http://theswamp.com/miata

WTF no turbo

Yep the mini does not have a good track record already read consumer reports it didnt do to well.

poison123

Just picked up a 2004 Mini, with Lux package, and runflats. The throttle is a little funky, but as it gets broken in it'll feel better. The mini will keep its value alot better than the RX8 easily, as far as handling goes, the Mini is a Go Cart. THis was for my wife, and the its seriously got me thinking of a Cooper S with Works Package. If you honestly want a pretty unique car, go with the Mini.

turbotaz

I did that, and I just can't seem to make up my mind. Perhaps I need to go back and test drive some more

The mini has great handling, but it is ultimately front wheel drive. The lack of limited slip diff is a shame. The engine is fast, but no faster than my previous cars (Audi Allroad, New Beetle Turbo). The overall package is a blast to drive though, and the interior quality/design is superb.

The Mazda is rear wheel drive, has perfect balance, and feels much faster than any car I've owned in the past. The short-throw shifter is sweet. The seating position is new to me, and seems like something I will have to get used to. The interior is nicely designed, but not as sweet as the Mini, in my opinion.

Thanks for all your comments. Maybe I will flip a coin or something.

Lawerence

It really depends on what you want.
I mean the two cars really arent even in the same class.
Most people cross shopping will be looking at the g35, 350z, S2k, and possibly evo, Sti and IS300.

I will say the RX8 definitely outshines the mini in handling.
But from the original mini to this one...im a little disappointed. Only because of the weight though. The new mini weighs 2800lbs (200 less than the 8 approx.) but that is alot of prok for a MINI. If it weighed 23-2500lbs I would say go for the mini 100%...but it doesnt.

Now if you are tight on money the mini is definitely a better choice.
CHeaper payments, cheaper insurance, and better gas mileage all add up to a cheaper car. (yes the first minis had problems [the first batch of rx8s have thier own problems too], and now they have been all but fixed)

So if money is a factor get the mini cooper works, which is slightly faster than an 8.

If its not...id go for the 8, or even take a look at IS300s. They are very nice cars, that can be bought for under sticker price.
RWD V6 4 doors, that come with lexus quality (better than both) and lexus resale value...but umtimately its your decision.

viggen

However, there's no comparison... I also looked at both. Beauty is, both cars are fun and special. However, there really isn't much of a comparison, as long as price isn't an issue.

From my evaluation of both cars, RX-8 is clearly the sports car of the two, although the MCS handling is superb.

Re: quality, several MCS test drives reflected a lot of squeaks and rattles and rather modest acceleration (hard to believe it's supercharged, but then, it's a tiny engine at 1.6l).

Re: fuel economy, the MCS owners board shows the same mpg issues we complain about on ours!

Last, both cars seat four, but I find the RX-8 more practical. Good sized trunk, easier to get in out of the back seats. I have triplet daughters and I fit two car seats back there just fine, plenty of room and rear door access is a revelatio. You'll kill yourself trying to get your kids in and out of car seats in the back of a Mini -- trust me I tried it...

Last, IMHO, the RX-8 is a very desireable sports car; for me me the MCS was also desireable and fun, but a littlke to "flash in the pan" for me...

bureau13

A couple comments. I don't think anyone can really comment too much on longterm reliability of the 8...either way, we just don't know yet.

As for the MCS being the unique one of the bunch...I don't know. I see a LOT more Minis running around here than I do RX-8s. I suspect that'll change but....not yet.

jds

poison123

I see ton's of RX8's in Georgia, and 90% of them are on the lots waiting for someone to buy them.

Skyline Maniac

I have seen both Mini and RX-8 in action at local AutoX chapters. Base on my impressions, both would be excellent cars on tight courses. The Mini is more nimble and handles quicker, but the RX-8 has more stability and corner exit power if you have it in the right gear. Practicality wise the mini backseats are strictly for kids, and the RX-8 could really benefit from a fold down rear bench. Both models have been having some trouble early on in the model year. The fact that Mini is backed by BMW doesn't seem to help any!? If the price being equal, I would say the RX-8 has an edge over the Mini S~ 6MT RX-8 can be had for under $25k in many places now, it's really a pretty sweet deal. IMO That's the right price for the car to begin with.