sure? how about an lotus elise with 350whp?

I realize I'm probably oversimplifying, but I have always expected a stock Renesis to behave under boost like a street ported REW.

If it came stock that way, sure ;) You know as well as I do how silly the PSI argument is. The results achieved in the last 3+ years by tuners has been anything but impressive.

Your argument was not the progression of this engine over the past 3 years. It was that the RX-8 doesn't respond well to forced induction. Pick one, and stick with it.

So if what's happening with the Renesis isn't impressive, what is? Is 335whp @12psi on Cali pump gas? I thought that was very good. Or should it have been closer to 400whp with the same conditions?

I think you should measure progress based on this car, and the historical progression of the rotary community and performance enhancements. In that context, the RX-8 is doing fine. If you're not measuring it against that, imo, it's pointless.

Compare an FI RX-8 to turbo rotarys of the past then. Or maybe compare it to some of the other competition like the Z that has turbo kits pushing 650+ whp. In this day and age with turbo kits out there that can push 1000+ whp in 4 cylinder cars I fail to be impressed with the progression of the RX-8 with FI.

Yeah, with turbos the size of manhole covers and engine internals made of solid brawn, resulting in about the same daily driveability as the space shuttle. I'm impressed too. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about potential, not what you deem as a good daily driver.

don't kid yourself, the FD is NOT reliable. I love the FD to death but they are HIGH maintenance.

Didn't go through the rest of the thread. A great response.

Wait. I saw a comment abut guitarjunkie and someone else making good gains from porting alone -- can I get some numbers??

I haven't seen anything over a 10-20whp gain from porting. That is laughable in comparison to the gains that porting can make on past 13B's -- however, this could also be taken as Mazda has done it's work on the ports already.

You should have read the rest of the thread. The comment the guy I was quoting made, made it sound like a few simple mods MADE his FD blow up - he clarified later on that he didn't mean that at all. You fail.

Z owners have the luxury of being able to purchase stronger internals and lower compression pistons, etc...to get to that point. Out of the box, without a rebuild, it's not gaining more significant amounts of power than a Renesis gains at similar pressure ratios. Is the Z creating more power? Yes. But so what the Z has always historically been a more powerful car. Every Japanese competitor - Supra, Z, 3000GT, etc...has always created more power. If we're getting into rebuilding engines, and such, then we should just throw in a 20B and start all over again. But then I'd be using "ricer math" correct...I recall you using the same line in the past to shoot down others. :rolleyes:

Compare it to previous rotary turbos...the previous engines had the benefit of lower compression for more boost, safely on pump gas. The only reason low compression was an option before was because of the FC turbo or FD. Do you see a factory forced induction RX-8 anywhere? How about aftermarket low compression rotors that are for sale?
But you wanted a comparison:
The Pettit Twin Screw SC is boosting to about 8psi. It also suffers from parasistic drive losses in the upper rpms of at least 35hp. (check the compressor maps from OpconAB on a Lysholm2300AX or Autorotor420). Despite, the Renesis is putting down 265whp, and they are only using a GReddy catback.

The FD, ran the sequential turbos in a 10-8-10psi boost pattern. It produced ~210-215whp. Could the Pettit SC be more efficient than the sequentials? Yes. But not that much more to account for such a difference in power given similar pressure ratios, and the exact same displacement.

Or here's another article:
http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_rx8power.html


The irony of this is that for years now I've read everywhere on this forum you telling people to accept the RX-8 for what it is. Yet here, you're setting standards that are higher than what it is. So which is it?

http://0wn3d.dk/owned/owned15.jpg

You can always swap in earlier-model RX7 rotors :)


Which is what I would do, if I had plans for a port, rebuild, and turbo. But turbo'ing the RX8 is so ill-logical...peripheral port is so much better for turbo cars..


Sure, if I had 10,000 laying around, I'd dive into a turbo system for my 8. But the more I think about it, if I REALLY had 10,000 lying around, I'd save up just a little more, and buy an FD instead.

If I had the money laying around, I'd try that. But from comments by Amemiya, and others, they aren't compatible.

I think a few months back we had a member that was using FC turbo rotors - not sure what ones - that had been modified. But I haven't seen him post about how that's been going.

another diference to take in, its that the 350z engines that fail when pushe over 400 rwhp fail because the engine its not strong enough, none of the renesis that have fail are due to the engine not being strong enough but because of bad tuning and lean conditions.

the renesis will be capable of close to 500 rwhp with out internal work, just give it time

Everything I have seen says they need new internals well before the 400whp mark

The Renesis will be limited in its current form by its compression ratio, but that bar is high enough that most people will not be affected by it so who cares. if 400WHP isn't enough for you, we need to talk....seriously, short of full out drag racing how the hell are you going to use that in any fashion other than burning up tires.

If you want a dyno queen go buy another car. Supra's and EVO's can give you all the dyno sheet love you need....and about 500lb of extra weight.

if you buying cars based on there absolute top take no prisoners tuning potential only, your an idiot.

I'd debate that anyday. Tuning matters more than anything.

what internals? even if it did, there aren't any save for ceramic apex seals, which are more for High RPM racing, they don't give you any real extra protection from detonation.

^^^
Pretty sure he was talking about the VQ engine from Nissan.

he was refering to my post about the vq engine needing better internal's for anything above 400 rwhp

The VQ is a nice torquey engine, but it is fragile for sure. Just go to freshalloy.com and read the posts. Nismo makes some great parts for it though, so if your willing to go there you can build a monster with it.

Frankly, the 350Z would be better off with about a 300lb weight reduction than a turbo. I really hope the next version weighs less.

Ah OK, I thought he was talking about a rotary too. It's pretty funny to say the Renesis can't get impressive power numbers but then to see an engine twice it's size like the Nissan needing to be strengthened to get over 400 hp. Who's pathetic now?

you'r right a 350z with 300lbs less would be a great car