rx8 over the fd
 

Up until a few weeks ago, I was planning on getting a jdm fd for the spring. The interior was fine and it had everything that I wanted to get in a car. Excellent handling, lots of power and a cool look. But it was actually one of the guys on this forum hercules that was posting on the rx7 forum that got me thinking. He was getting rid of his m3 for an 8. And it was the top gear video that really did it for me. Something that's able to keep pace with a 350z and m3 is a real sports car and come with a great price.

I was sold on the interior too. Way nicer than the fd's. I've always liked the rx8's exterior looks but never thought I would get one so I stopped looking. But after getting a raise at work and reading about how the 8 it's a practical sports car (except mpg), I've found what I was looking for.

So tomorrow I'm going to test drive a used 04 black gt and I'm planning on driving it home. It's got 8600kms on it, and going for 26k CDN. I'll be able to bring the price down a bit but it's everything I wanted in the 8. So tomorrow when I bring it home I'll be sure to post some pics.

Cool, and BTW, welcome to the club! Where about's are you located? (Please update your profile)

Good choice and can't wait to see some pics!

the 8 hasnt got that much more "useable" room over the fd 7.....
13BTT > 13B Renesis ;-)

Except for the fact that I can take my wife and 2 daughters on a 300 Mile trip on the 8 with enough clothes to last us the week and travel comfortably.

I Dare you... ...I Double Dog Dare You... ... I DEFY you ...

...to try that in an FD :Eyecrazy: :)

And if you do, please post pictures... It'd be hilarious to seehow you contort 2 people into the hatch, but please make it college buddies, and not your kids, Social Services wouldn't take to kindly to that :hahano:

no where in his first post stating he will be taking his wife and kids in the FD....
there are rental car companies out there for driving trips ;-)

I know, I'm just poking holes in your comment about usable space
(and trying to use a quote from the old Sprite "Show them my motto" commercials which I thought were hilarious)

But Why would you rent a car you don't enjoy for a driving trip when you have a car that you love to drive that could take you there smiling all the way?

Just to clear one thing up - I think we've all seen the top gear video, and we know the 8 is not as fast as the 350z and m3. More fun? Maybe! Just keep that in mind though. The fd is faster and more mod-able.

check the TG laptime board again.....

dude, i went away for 3 nights and i struggled to fit my suitcase and other bags in my boot and backseats :Eyecrazy:

My 8's N/A but I imagine if you would drop a turbo (turbo guys correct me if I'm wrong) in an 8, you'd get the best of both worlds. The reliability and "practicality" of the Renesis and a new car and the nuts of the FD. Like I said, I'm N/A so I'm not all that sure about turbo 8s, but seems like the only thing the FD has over the 8 is it's nuts?

Come on now, this has been discussed time and time again. The Top Gear tests are not only a bit unreliable (different conditions) but the track is rather tight thus benefiting the 8.

Keep this in mind - the rx8 is more of a compromise of sedan and sports car whereas the rx7 is more of a pure sports car.

If reliability is a key part of this purchase, do not purchase the rx7.

I'm a former FD owner. Blew it up twice with small mods.

The 8 is more fun to own, period.

Great choice with Brilliant Black, just don't forget to figure in some snow tires up there.

The 8 and the Z were tested on the same episode. Top Gear doesn't go out and test one car at a time as they come through the door. That'd be a grossly inefficient way to do the shooting-- instead, they're tested in batches. Notice on some TG time trials you can see a row of cars just barely on-camera waiting to be tested. Therefore there is a chance that the 8 and Z were tested on the same day with the same driver (why switch Stigs in the same day?) This of course doesn't apply to all of their tests, but perhaps it does for cars featured in the same episode.

And Top Gear never claims that their tests prove which car is faster on the road... just around their track, which likely did favor the 8 the same way VIR favored the Z in Car and Driver's "Lightning Lap." The same argument you're using could be reversed to use against the Z in that test.

That does not make it unreliable. That only means YOU sir were an unreliable owner. Don't spread false word.

I was easily able to put 2 suitcases (rollable, carry on type), a backpack, a briefcase, a portable crib and a umbrella stroller in the trunk (boot).
The only things we took with us on the passenger compartment were a small cooler for the baby's formula, and my 4 year old's special "Blankie" (and a couple of toys for them)

I don't have the optional spare tire though

Nice stab, but you're wrong. :spank:

Never one to spread false words on cars, just pure honesty.
I purchased my '93 FD new. Treated it better than my 2 previous wives.
I have always had my dealers maintain my Rotaries. (BTW, I've previously owned 3).

My mods were merely a CAI and Cat-Back. The rest was bone-stock due to warranty concerns.

Mazda replaced defective Apex Seals, a leaking boost controller and malfunctioning fuel pump. Finally a loose Turbo flange toasted some electrical wiring.

Maybe I should have gone in-depth with my statement in clarifying that my mods were mild and not the blame for my FD's demise.

Believe me, I loved the car and took extra good care of it, but again I state that for a $52k pure sports car, it was not reliable even as a weekender.

Although only a few FD's had the severe problems that mine did, I remain faithful to the rotary and will always own at least one, even if it's not a 2-seater...

BTW: I have never flooded a Rotary.

You sure about that $53k number AdRock? For that, you should have had TWO '93s.

I put ~100k miles on my '94 FD before getting my '04 RX-8, and to the original point of this thread, the '8 is a MUCH more useable car. Still miss that all-out performance wallop of the FD, but the rock-hard ride, crappy interior and minimal space for anything larger than a loaf of bread are just memories now.

Um... sorry about the mis-identification above. Meant to address AirLock instead.

I caught that, it's cool... name similarities...
Yup, $52.8 bottom line (I cheated, included taxes, financing, etc) to be exact, off the showroom floor.

My retired daily-driver FC (still running) has 210k orig. miles though.

For now. It's been around longer than the RX-8.

I hate to say it but as gorgeous as the FD is, it's not a reliable car by anyone's standards. It is inherently flawed and very few of them have ever made 100,000 miles. Not even stock. The small twin turbos were very complex. With over 70 vacuum lines and numerous actuators to make them work properly, it didn't take much to cause that system to not transition smoothly. The vacuum lines are all rubber as most cars are and they get brittle and break, crack, etc... The engine bay of the 3rd gen is very hot and this happens fairly quickly. Let me quantify that by saying it may still take several years but they still get brittle before they would in other cars.

The small twins spin very fast. On prespool of the 2nd turbo, it can momentarily hit 150,000 rpm. The bearings on those go out fairly quicky. I've seen them gone in as little as 30,000 miles but mearly all with a very rare few ever making 50,000+ before needing to be rebuilt.

The engine coolant seals were changed from the 2nd gens. They proved to be unreliable. Mazda later added a small metal heat shield to their rebuilt engines and their over the counter seal sales. The seals would fail and water would leak. This was a huge problem with these cars as the miles go up and most of them will suffer this fate at some point usually well under 100,000 miles.

Those cars has inadequate cooling ability. They'd overheat in traffic in warmer climates. There is just no excuse for that! People that tracked them would really have issues unless this was worked out.

If you want a reliable FD, rebuild the engine with different coolant seals, dump the stock twin turbos and complete replace the coolant system with a better one. Until this is done, that is one of the least reliable cars you can own in the longterm.

Just commenting on the whole Top Gear lap times as mesurement of any cars performance but yeah, I'm sure the z and 8 were most liklely tested in the same conditions.

When it comes down to it though, the reason the 8 does well is because the track is tight (relative to many other tracks) Is this bad? No, its great for the 8. When comparing the times to other cars on this track, however, the 8 appears to do better than an 8 would do on many (if not most) other tracks. The rx8 is a bit low on power (as we all know) when compared to other sports models thus making any track with straights to be the 8's downfall (driver dependent).

Like it or not, most tracks are not as tight as the top gear test course. Because of this, the 8 may be outperformed by cars like the Z when they can stretch their legs. The wording stated above my original post make the rx8 appear to perform as well as the m3 and Z, I was just reminding that this is only so because the track is so tight, throw in a striaght or 2 and the times would most likely change.

A very well-informed post.

As true as this is, the RX8, in my mind, will never have the same mod-ability as the FD. The compression is far too high - 10.0:1 + boost = I would NEVER feel comfortable making much power. No matter who the tuner is, I don't think I'd ever be comfortable really hammering on it like I can while N/A.

The RX8 also lacks peripheral exhaust ports...which is just not as efficient for a tubocharged car. Much less direct-flow..slower spool..etc..

i wouldn't be scared of compression ratio, high comp doesn't equal 'not boostable', the s2000 is at 11:1 and has been cleanly boosted.

Piston engine compression is not the same as rotary engine compression.

Sure you can add FI, but neither the S2K nor RX-8 respond all that well to it.

That's interesting, I thought ~8psi and a bit above 300whp on a car that is providing ~180whp NA is a great return.

+1, Agree

+1, Agree * 2

I would not be inclined to agree with you. Especially since many have said the Rx8 can not be turbo'd safely...Mazsport did it. Many have said it can not be ported and get good gains...guitarjunkie + rotarygod are both doing it.

As the days go by more and more is being done. This car will stay in my line up and will be a monster eventually. :Freak_ani :)

You gotta remember, Kall's got a show car. She's probably got like 6x 20" woofers and some amps in her trunk.

*hee, hee. I said, "her trunk" hee, hee."

very well said and inform post, but....

He did say JDM, the jdm fd is very diferent than the US version, it has less than half the vacuum lines, the cooling sistem was improve, the turbos are diferent ( 1999+) it has almost no emisions equipment, etc.The jdm FD's that are rolling around here are very trouble free.

But I really think the rx-8 is a better choice, it is more comfortable and usefull, brakes better, the power can allways be added

take it from me I own boht, get the 8

LMFAO!!! I'm not too sure about the S2000 but the RX-8 comment is downright laughable!

what is it going to take? a 600 whp renesis?

people are getting 400+ whp from the renesis, I can asure you to get more than that in a 13b-REW you have to spend a lot of $$$$$.

VERY GOOD POINT

(Dont know the answer) Are there any Rx7 engines that are turbo'd hitting 400wHP with no internal modification? Internal mods do not include fuel system and ignition system. I mean apex seals, porting, etc. :Freak_ani

the 8 is like a steady girlfriend that knows how you like it. the 7 is the blonde secritary that you just wanna bone.

*sigh* I really want a 7 but love my 8

yes, you could get 400+rwhp without internal work, with the right turbo, intercooler, ecu, injectors, exhaust,etc. So you are looking on a $5,000 investment at least, this is to do a relyable car, there are ways to get there cheaper but you are going to blow! The best way to get 400 whp is to do some internal work.

my fd used to have a single turbo and all of the mods above and some more (427 rwhp with pump gas) and I took it all of the car and went to an almost stock set up (330 rwhp), the car was not only scary fast but it was almost imposible to drive for more than a couple of hours.

AND IN THE WET!! NO TRACTION CONTROL!!! :Eyecrazy:

That's a good point. I have no experience with the newer Jspec cars so I can only hope that they improved it over the years.

Back in 2000-2001, Ari at Rotary Performance was really heavy into drag racing his FD. I'm not sure if he still is or not. He ran around for over a year on a stock Mazda remanufactured engine. No internal work, all stock seals, no porting, nothing. He boosted it with a Greddy T76 up to 26 psi and ran a 75 shot of nitrous. He had an upgraded fuel system, stock intake manifold, and a Haltech ecu. Good tuning got him 620 rwhp and he ran it an entire season without blowing it up. That setup got him into the 9's with a stock transmission!

out of the 50+ fd in my country (very small one) only 3 are us spec, my brothers car mine and a VYM thats siting in a garage right now getting a 20b.

Ari is one hell of a tuner!

26 psi without a pined engine?

Yeah, because the results have been so impressive thus far... :boring: Maybe I should be placing more emphasis on blaming the ECU though.

What results impress you :Wconfused At the given pressure ratios the Renesis is performing as would be expected.

Holy Sh*t!! I would be more than pleased to get about 1/2 of that performance in my 8. Stock tranny? That's pretty impressive too.

What is the greatest power output from a Renesis so far?

I got it, and man it's a great car to drive!! I didn't think it was much of a head turner but I was wrong. I was a little hostile about the lower hp, but it's really not as bad as I thought it would be. Hauls just like my mx6 did. Anyways right now it's in the shop getting the heater fixed and going through an out of province inspection done. Hopefull I'll have it back by the end of the day and will post pics tomorrow!

I haven't seen any 13B do what Scott has made a Renesis do at the same boost levels. I'm not too sure why that's not impressive? Power numbers are still going up and will continue to do so. I guess we need to give it about 285 hp or so at 19 psi for it to be impressive. :rolleyes:

LMAO!!!

you know nothing below 350 hp is impressive.