cstokes24

I am considering getting a bike. I was running through some forums and came across the following thread about an RX8:

http://www.riderforums.com/showthread.php?t=34311

I love the comments people make about the 8. My favorite is the "afterwards he probably had to stop and add a quart of oil"....

BTW: The guy was doing something wrong if he couldn't keep up.

9291150

It wasn't a real Ninja 600, rather it was a vertical twin 650, not a fast bike but a sub 12 second bike nonetheless, so that 8 must of had serious mods. Even though that particular bike tops out at only 130, it still gets there real fast.

daisuke

the 8 will pull away from a lot of things if it's already rolling. I've pulled away from an evo from about 5 or 10 mph up to 60, after that I let off, I know he would have smoked me after that tho. The long gears in the 8 make it pretty capable in that sense.

IcarusX8

There was this one time last summer when I was out driving and some guy in a 650r was next to me...........................

chickenwafer

iTrader: (9)

The 650R's aren't that quick. They aren't the full-on crotch rocket, just a parrell-twin. But they are light and have a peppy powerplant. Stock for stock, of course a 650R will pull on a stock RX-8, duh, it's a bike.

I would bet a turbo RX-8, or even one spraying a decent shot of nitrous, would pull on a 650R on the top-end, however.

It is funny to see some of the comments on that site. I used to ride a Suzuki GSX-R750, so I know the mentality that "no car can corner with a bike", but some of those people really have to experience the cornering prowess of the RX-8 (or any modern sports car for that matter)

Juice

iTrader: (1)

Bikes are slow in a corner, its a fact.

Where they gain is the fact that they are lighter which helps brake quicker, and accelerate faster. Cars can carry more speed in a corner, but the bikes will ultimately be quicker since they are able to get in and out of the turn quicker.

I wouldn't consider this speed an attribute of good handling, as it doesn't really deal with handling so much as power and braking ability.

9291150

Bikes are slow in corners? Comparing a normal sportscar to a normal sportbike, you'll find them very similar in minimum cornering speeds, with a slight edge to the car. The gap becomes wider once you compare, for example, race bikes to winged race cars, but that's not what we're talking about.

9291150

Mobile

I own bikes and an RX8, there is no question that a bike will pull a car in a straight line/light bends. However when it comes to heavy cornering - the car will always have the edge. It all comes down to grip. A car has 4 tires plus a wide wheelbase, giving you much more available grip - which is what cornering is all about. You can attack corners at higher speeds, and be more aggressive with braking and throttle.

Also something to note with bikes. It takes a good rider to get performance from a bike - it's more about the rider then the machine. Take braking for instance. A typical motorcycle comes in around 400/450 pounds. You have two huge disks on the front wheel, plus another on the back wheel - giving you a massive amount of stopping power (to match the accelerating power). However it takes a good rider to squeeze out the performance of the braking system - unlike a car you can't just stomp the brake. There is no traction control, no ABS, and you have to deal with such factors and suspension load, weight transfer and road conditions. Just grab the brakes and kiss your *** goodbye as the front tire tucks under the sudden weight transfer to the front. A good rider on an older bike could out-brake a average rider on a superior machine - no so with cars.

This translates to all components of riding. You have to run a much finer line on a bike as you don't get the opportunity to recover the same you get in a car. Once you commit to a corner line and you are in a full lean - if something comes up in the corner (gravel/dog/pot hole), you can't just turn the wheel more, and you can't hit the brakes (your suspension will want to stand up and off the road you go) - your options are very limited and it takes a good rider to ride the fine line of options available.

VolcomStoneX

+1, i have a 03 suzuki 600 its pretty fast for me, sometimes, but this is my first bike too, i wanted a ninja next...

my first ever speeding ticket was like 1 month ago, going 120 on the toll road, but the cop dropped it to 82, phew...got 2 tickets that night..lol FTW!

Juice

iTrader: (1)

OK, maybe I should have said slower in corners compared to cars. Considering the topic of this thread, I just assumed that is what we were talking about. In any case, you agree that cars have the edge. Wether its slight or not, cars are faster than a bike while turning. Obviously, comparing a 1000cc superbike against a civic, the bike will be faster, not really a fair comparison though. Average to average, like RX-8 to 650R, the car will be faster.

My point is that bikes don't handle as well as everyone thinks. Put against a decent car, they aren't as fast through a corner. I'm not trying to put bikes down, just trying to clear misconceptions that people have regarding the handling "prowess" of a motorcycle, which really has nothing to do with handling but power/brakes. Yes, they are ultimatley going to be faster, not because they can turn faster, but because they can brake and accelerate faster.

Mobile

I disagree with you regarding motorcycle prowess - do you ride? Handling and corner speed are not one in the same. While it is true that a car is faster in cornering because of available grip (see my post above) - this does not mean a car "handles" better then a bike. On the contrary, a sportbikes feel and handling is much more hooked up then an average (or better then) sports car - this is the nature of the machine, they are light as a feather without even a whisper of anything close to body roll. You get an experience closer to that of a racing machine, very very tight. This is what makes them so enjoyable to ride through corners even though you may be able to time better in a car.

Also your comparison of the 650R to the RX8 in not accurate. A 650R is considered to be a below average sportbike. It's the civic of the sportbike world.

Uncivilizedracer

I say get a R6 or a GSX600 for your first bike - if you want something slower get a ninja ZZR600 or a cbr600. But like the fact that in a straight line the only car i was beat by on the track was a twin turbo supra (no suprise there) but he was putting 690 to the ground. But you never want to get a bike that your going to hate cause its slow later on get a good one and get it tuned down till you learn how to ride it. And if you get a guy that knows how to ride a bike i can see a bike out cornering a car anyday, but your average joe on a bike trying to hit corners i doubt it!

Juice

iTrader: (1)

Most people consider how well and how fast a car/bike corners its handling, which is why I put it in those terms (more on this below)

This is all that I was trying to say, except the last part (explanation below). I tried saying this in my first post, but the wording leaves alot open to interpretation.

Very true. A bike does feel better than a car as it is just a more raw machine. I don't consider feel a part of handling though. Feel is subjective to the driver/rider. In this way, something that handles badly can still feel good to someone or the other way around.

Handling is usually measured using 3 standards that most people can relate to, skidpad, figure 8 and slalom. The car with the fastest times/speed/Gs is considered the better handling car. It has nothing to do with feel or opinion, but numbers. Most people have the misconception that a bike will be a better handler than a car measuring it this way, but the fact is, it usually isn't. There are exceptions, but the average is in favor of the car.

Yes a sportsbike will have a faster track time 90% of the time. Does that mean it handles better? NO, it is simply faster than a car when braking/accelerating which makes up for its shortcomings elsewhere. I tried to convey this in my first post.

I only used that comparison as that is what the thread is about.

Uncivilizedracer

^ Well done!

SayNoToPistons

iTrader: (8)

"the RX-8. what a POS. "
Says the guy who drives a WRX...

RMZ290

Corner speed with a good rider on a sport replica is much higher in any car. Put a rx8 on a road course with a race rep. and the bike could probably lap it in a few laps. No comparison.

The Baby ninja referred to in this post is not exactly high performance. They have low power, more weight, crappy suspension and narrower tires compared to their race replica cousins. They are targeted at entry level riders looking for a bike thats easy to ride but has sport bike looks.

I have a xr650r (single cylinder dirt bike) supermoto with a plate, and it will outrun the 650 ninjas, even on knobbies.

Mobile

We are comparing bikes to cars here; this is apples to oranges and a certain amount of subjectivity has to be allowed. Again, I ask do you ride? Something tells me that you don't.

Feel was only part of what I referenced, you ignored everything I said about being light and having no body roll and being closer to a race machine - a bike is extremely tight. Thus giving a sportbike better handling and feel. Handling and feel go together - if a car has poor feel, then the ability to handle the car suffers.

Your comparison stated that the RX8 was an average sports car, and the 650R an average bike. I simply pointed out this was wrong.

Juice

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I have ridden friends motorcylces in the past (04 R6, 03 CBR600F4i). I got my license when I was 19 (23 now), but I couldn't afford my own bike because insurance was too much so I chose to put it on the back burner as I would much rather have a car I can use year round. Here in CT, there is really only 7-8 months out of the year that it would be nice to have a bike.

As for body roll, a bike doesn't have body roll in the same sense as a car does because it only has 2 wheels. Technically it does roll, but it is counteracted by having to lean into the turn. If you made a right turn and didn't lean, it would tip over to the left and you'd be on the ground in an instant. Is this not body roll? Body roll is just weight transfer, which a bike has just as much of as a car. You can't counteract body roll in a car like you can on a motorcycle though.

Again, feel has nothing to do with numbers which is what 99% of the people consider when thinking about handling. Some subjectivity should be allowed, but by your standards feel is half if not all of what handling is. Does that change what the bike/car can actually do? Maybe it feels better through a turn, but it doesn't change the fact that it isn't actually better.

EXAMPLE:
I FEEL my car handles better than a 911 because the 911 is too rear heavy and can tend to oversteer whereas my car has perfect balance and is totally neutral. Does that make my car the better handler? I think not.

ONE MORE TIME! When you bring feel into it, it makes everything a personal opinion which can be good if you are looking for opinions, but really doesn't have anything to do with fact.

As to the lightweight/race machine stuff. I agreed with you, like I said and you seemed to have overlooked, a motorcycle is a more raw machine. This doesn't change the fact that it is slower in corners than a car.

Faster around a track yes, but slower in corners. That is my whole point, and can be read in my first post.

Mobile

Riding a motorcycle and having experience on a motorcycle are two different things. You have just written so many incorrect statements that I almost don't know where to start. Since when does a motorcycle body-roll when cornering? You certainly don't counteract it by leaning. A motorcycle stays up when moving because of the forces created by the spinning wheels. A motorcycle steers at high speed by counter-steering because of this force.

I don't know where you got the idea that if you made a right turn and didn't lean you would fall over. At speed this would not be possible because of the spinning rotational mass, and in a low speed situation it's possible to just turn the handlebars. If you had any real experience on a bike you would know that you can make a right turn and lean to the left or right or not at all if you wanted to - any of those options would keep you up-right.

You not only think a bike has as much body roll as a car, you think that you lean on a bike to counteract said body roll? Wow. Please stop posting about things you clearly know nothing about. Your last post just made me realize that I am truly wasting my time responding.

I won't bother responding once again regarding what handling is - not much point. I will say that it's not what I feel, it's what the vehicle allows the driver to feel that counts - that's part of the equation of handling. How good you are at picking up these q's usually dictates how capable a driver you are. If a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to hear it, does it still make a sound?

9291150

^ Don't worry Mobile, Juice is actually better than most cagers and their knowledge of bikes.

I'm impressed by the number of 8 owners who also ride, nice to see.

Uncivilizedracer

^^ It only makes a sound if it falls on a rabbit or something like that , isnt that how the rest of it goes lol. Ill have to agree with Mobile centrifugal force is what you need to read up on when it comes to corners and to lean or not to lean on a bike, having one and experiencing that you will come to learn this and the importance of it . . . . . IM bored now !

RMZ290

I would think that car would have to be able to pull over 1 g on a skid pad to even have a fair chance. Add to that that a motorcycle can outbrake and out accelerate just about any car, and the rx8 has no chance in hell.

You've obviously never come anywhere near the limits of the bikes juice. I can corner much faster on any race replica I've ridden, when the rx8 would probably just begin to brake loose. Anybody can corner a car fast, but it takes skill and experience to do it on a bike.

RX26b

Actually, you were right the first time - the 8, without question, is by far better balanced than the 911, and is, in fact, the better handling machine.

Btw, how do cycles do in braking from triple digit speeds - road or race vs. like-kind cars?

flip702

On a side note... draggin' knee is always fun!