The RX8 And Mazda
06-12-2011, 10:57 PM
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The RX8 And Mazda
I have been an RX8 owner for 5 years now and have been a member of this forum for a while. Although I don't post a lot, I am constantly reading posts from other members. I have read good and bad things alike about the RX8. I have had problems with mine, just as you have had problems with yours, and some of the problems are the same. It is these "problems" with the RX8 that I want to talk about. Question: Do you think Mazda notices this forum and takes a look at these posts? I dunno.
Before I signed the dotted line for my 8, I was torn between it and the Infiniti G35 coupe big time. They both had advantages and disadvantages over the other. I'm not going to discuss these because we are all smart car people here so I don't need to dwell on the blessings of the 8. I chose the 8 because I had an '83 RX7 and my brother had an '87 RX7 GXL. They both were good cars...no issues until I drove my 7 to death and she couldn't give me anymore. She was an old girl. So being familiar with rotaries, I got the 8, and after the recurring problems and subsequent dealer visits (In which they didn't seem to have a clue as to what to do) a part of me wishes that I wouldn't have purchased it. Over the last five years, the problems just kept coming and I think that we all share some of them: LCD screen going blank so radio and air didn't work, no power steering, charging system warning, condensation in tail lights, engine power losses and on and on. I do think the almighty that my 8 hasn't experienced some of the problems that ya'll's have. Some of those posts are scary. But nonetheless, it all starts to wear on you, at least it does me.
So when the Series II was introduced, I said that Mazda may have finally gotten rid of most of the kinks that plagued the series I, but reading some of those posts, that doesn't seem to be the case. That series is plagued also. So why would Mazda create a car that's a mixed bag? It's athletic as hell, looks darn good IMO, is highly unique but on the flip side, the reliability is suspect to say the least. The Wankel engine is an enigma. It only has three moving parts so it should theoretically be bullet proof, but yet Mazda has to replace engines due to failure. The 8 doesn't have as much power as compared to other vehicles nor is it fuel efficient, we all know that. If it had 225 ft/lbs. or torque and got 28 miles/gallon highway, then maybe I would put up with it's reliability issues. Or maybe not. There are cars out there that get decent gas mileage for sports cars/sports sedans and have torquey engines, and they also have better reliability than the 8. Granted, no car make or model is without problems and none are perfect, but the 8 seems to have an inordinate amount of them. How is the reliability of the other Mazda models? I wonder.
I know some of you may say that I don't understand the 8. Let me squash that.....I do. I understand the importance of oil changes, and not turning off a cold engine because of flooding possibilities so on and so forth. Remember I had a 7 so I do understand the nuances of the Wankel. I also understand that Mazda is the only car company on the planet that uses a production Wankel in a passenger car. So to me, they should be on point all of the time with the rotary because other car makers gave up on it years ago because they couldn't or wouldn't solve the riddle of the rotary so industry eyes are on Mazda and they could be saying, "Glad we didn't pursue that because it's still not right." Years ago, Mazda had an advantage with rotary smoothness as compared to piston engines, but that it no longer the case. I had a Ford Probe GT ('94 V6 engine made by Mazda) that was smoother than my Renesis. I've experienced Toyota Camry 4 bangers that are quieter and smoother than the Renesis so that's no longer a clear advantage. Don't get me wrong, I love the Wankel because of the way it makes it's power. It's an incredibly efficient powerplant, but it's very inefficient the way it uses it's fuel to create that power.
I know that Mazda doesn't have the deep pockets of a Honda, Toyota or Ford, but some things are just not acceptable. The problems that have plagued these vehicles from introduction until now is unacceptable IMO and Mazda has created two series production runs, and they still aren't right. I'm about to pay mine off soon. I have been going back and forth. Do I get rid of it? or do I keep it? I don't know what I will do. I started car shopping a few months ago and have found many that surpass the 8 in build quality, but they should because they are 5 years younger. I think that I will keep my 8 as a reminder of all of the umpteen dealer visits that I had and also, after five years of ownership, her beauty still captivates me. I am disappointed both in the 8 and Mazda as a car company. But I'll get over it. I pray that the RX9 or RX7 is a more competent vehicle and that Mazda will solve all of most of the problems that plagued the 8. If you choose to get one, then I'll be happy for you, but as for another Mazda being in my garage rather Wankel or piston, is highly unlikely. Now let the flogging begin.
Before I signed the dotted line for my 8, I was torn between it and the Infiniti G35 coupe big time. They both had advantages and disadvantages over the other. I'm not going to discuss these because we are all smart car people here so I don't need to dwell on the blessings of the 8. I chose the 8 because I had an '83 RX7 and my brother had an '87 RX7 GXL. They both were good cars...no issues until I drove my 7 to death and she couldn't give me anymore. She was an old girl. So being familiar with rotaries, I got the 8, and after the recurring problems and subsequent dealer visits (In which they didn't seem to have a clue as to what to do) a part of me wishes that I wouldn't have purchased it. Over the last five years, the problems just kept coming and I think that we all share some of them: LCD screen going blank so radio and air didn't work, no power steering, charging system warning, condensation in tail lights, engine power losses and on and on. I do think the almighty that my 8 hasn't experienced some of the problems that ya'll's have. Some of those posts are scary. But nonetheless, it all starts to wear on you, at least it does me.
So when the Series II was introduced, I said that Mazda may have finally gotten rid of most of the kinks that plagued the series I, but reading some of those posts, that doesn't seem to be the case. That series is plagued also. So why would Mazda create a car that's a mixed bag? It's athletic as hell, looks darn good IMO, is highly unique but on the flip side, the reliability is suspect to say the least. The Wankel engine is an enigma. It only has three moving parts so it should theoretically be bullet proof, but yet Mazda has to replace engines due to failure. The 8 doesn't have as much power as compared to other vehicles nor is it fuel efficient, we all know that. If it had 225 ft/lbs. or torque and got 28 miles/gallon highway, then maybe I would put up with it's reliability issues. Or maybe not. There are cars out there that get decent gas mileage for sports cars/sports sedans and have torquey engines, and they also have better reliability than the 8. Granted, no car make or model is without problems and none are perfect, but the 8 seems to have an inordinate amount of them. How is the reliability of the other Mazda models? I wonder.
I know some of you may say that I don't understand the 8. Let me squash that.....I do. I understand the importance of oil changes, and not turning off a cold engine because of flooding possibilities so on and so forth. Remember I had a 7 so I do understand the nuances of the Wankel. I also understand that Mazda is the only car company on the planet that uses a production Wankel in a passenger car. So to me, they should be on point all of the time with the rotary because other car makers gave up on it years ago because they couldn't or wouldn't solve the riddle of the rotary so industry eyes are on Mazda and they could be saying, "Glad we didn't pursue that because it's still not right." Years ago, Mazda had an advantage with rotary smoothness as compared to piston engines, but that it no longer the case. I had a Ford Probe GT ('94 V6 engine made by Mazda) that was smoother than my Renesis. I've experienced Toyota Camry 4 bangers that are quieter and smoother than the Renesis so that's no longer a clear advantage. Don't get me wrong, I love the Wankel because of the way it makes it's power. It's an incredibly efficient powerplant, but it's very inefficient the way it uses it's fuel to create that power.
I know that Mazda doesn't have the deep pockets of a Honda, Toyota or Ford, but some things are just not acceptable. The problems that have plagued these vehicles from introduction until now is unacceptable IMO and Mazda has created two series production runs, and they still aren't right. I'm about to pay mine off soon. I have been going back and forth. Do I get rid of it? or do I keep it? I don't know what I will do. I started car shopping a few months ago and have found many that surpass the 8 in build quality, but they should because they are 5 years younger. I think that I will keep my 8 as a reminder of all of the umpteen dealer visits that I had and also, after five years of ownership, her beauty still captivates me. I am disappointed both in the 8 and Mazda as a car company. But I'll get over it. I pray that the RX9 or RX7 is a more competent vehicle and that Mazda will solve all of most of the problems that plagued the 8. If you choose to get one, then I'll be happy for you, but as for another Mazda being in my garage rather Wankel or piston, is highly unlikely. Now let the flogging begin.
06-12-2011, 11:52 PM
#4
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Question: Do you think Mazda notices this forum and takes a look at these posts?
It only has three moving parts so it should theoretically be bullet proof, but yet Mazda has to replace engines due to failure. The 8 doesn't have as much power as compared to other vehicles nor is it fuel efficient, we all know that.
Most of the problems you've had have nothing to do with the engine. It's odd that the 8 would have problems like that, since other Mazdas are pretty reliable. The Miata is supposed to be as bombproof as a Honda or Toyota.
If you can meaningfully compare the 8 to other cars, maybe one of the others would be more suitable. When I went car shopping, I got the 8 because there was nothing else comparable. YMMV.
Ken
Last edited by ken-x8; 06-13-2011 at 07:13 AM. Reason: spelung
06-12-2011, 11:57 PM
#5
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I read the whole 'wall'!
Most of your complaints - radio, a/c, tailights, power steering etc. have zero to do with the engine technology, they simply show poor design/engineering.
I agree that the 'engineer' that chose that red l.e.d. display should be shot and pissed on, but how does that affect the Wankel?...it doesn't.
So overall you're saying that the constant trips to the dealer have soured the whole experience, and that bottom line, you wish the car had proven to be more sturdy and reliable in the first place. I get it.
Hug it out - we still love ya!
Most of your complaints - radio, a/c, tailights, power steering etc. have zero to do with the engine technology, they simply show poor design/engineering.
I agree that the 'engineer' that chose that red l.e.d. display should be shot and pissed on, but how does that affect the Wankel?...it doesn't.
So overall you're saying that the constant trips to the dealer have soured the whole experience, and that bottom line, you wish the car had proven to be more sturdy and reliable in the first place. I get it.
Hug it out - we still love ya!
06-13-2011, 08:17 AM
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06-13-2011, 08:26 AM
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I read the whole 'wall'!
Most of your complaints - radio, a/c, tailights, power steering etc. have zero to do with the engine technology, they simply show poor design/engineering.
I agree that the 'engineer' that chose that red l.e.d. display should be shot and pissed on, but how does that affect the Wankel?...it doesn't.
So overall you're saying that the constant trips to the dealer have soured the whole experience, and that bottom line, you wish the car had proven to be more sturdy and reliable in the first place. I get it.
Hug it out - we still love ya!
Most of your complaints - radio, a/c, tailights, power steering etc. have zero to do with the engine technology, they simply show poor design/engineering.
I agree that the 'engineer' that chose that red l.e.d. display should be shot and pissed on, but how does that affect the Wankel?...it doesn't.
So overall you're saying that the constant trips to the dealer have soured the whole experience, and that bottom line, you wish the car had proven to be more sturdy and reliable in the first place. I get it.
Hug it out - we still love ya!
Last edited by rx8it; 06-13-2011 at 08:39 AM.
06-13-2011, 08:53 AM
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Props to the OP from me. This is one of the few "wall of texts" I DID read simply because it was paragraphed properly.
To address your post, OP, I get where you're coming from. There are some fitnment issues that bother me, like the creaking of the door panels and various trim pieces that annoy me; however, for me, the driving experience just dominates everything.
tl;dr - props for writing english properly. Driving experience > all, for me.
To address your post, OP, I get where you're coming from. There are some fitnment issues that bother me, like the creaking of the door panels and various trim pieces that annoy me; however, for me, the driving experience just dominates everything.
tl;dr - props for writing english properly. Driving experience > all, for me.
06-13-2011, 09:19 AM
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The first two years of owning my '04 was were filled with service visits for the TSB issues you mentioned. But once past that, things were pretty quiet for me for the next 5+ years. Most of the "fixes" weren't just bandaids, but were actually revised parts so the problems haven't returned. I give credit to Mazda for trying to make things right.
The engine, yes it's kinda ashame us oldies have had problems. Mine was just replaced at 79,000 miles. But on the other hand, I credit Mazda for standing behind the rotary and replacing it for free. And while I've been in for service many more times than with my Civic (all those TSBs early on), the 8 hasn't really cost me much more to "fix" things.
It's a very unique car, as even aside from the engine I don't think it shares many of it's parts with anything else, so I expected minor problems to be honest. I figured I was a "beta tester" when buying my '04, but the warranty covered the initial problems. And once the warranty ran out, Mazda still made things right by extending the rotary warranty and even covering the clutch pedal snappings.
So I dunno, in some weird way I feel like Mazda and I went on a joint design adventure over the last 7 years. They did their part, and I did mine. They learned a lot, and I've been had the privilege of driving the most fun car I'll ever own.
06-13-2011, 03:10 PM
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Most of your complaints seem pretty minor. You can't expect cars in the 20k-30k price range to be flawless, especially a sports car. Compromises are made in certain areas to achieve the low price and thats typically where these minor issues come from. You would be hard pressed to find a new car that doesn't have some sort of minor issues/recalls in this price range. Go read other car forums, they all have some sort of common issues to read about. Sure there are more reliable cars in the price range, but they likely dont have the same level of performance/sportiness. Its a tradeoff, you have to decide whats more important to you.
The engine problems, you're right those were out-of-the-norm. But you didnt have that problem. And S2's aren't having those issues (unlike what you said), so Mazda has worked to resolve them. In fact I haven't had any issues with my S2 in over 1.5 years and 15k miles.
About the dealerships, Ill give you that, they do suck....
The engine problems, you're right those were out-of-the-norm. But you didnt have that problem. And S2's aren't having those issues (unlike what you said), so Mazda has worked to resolve them. In fact I haven't had any issues with my S2 in over 1.5 years and 15k miles.
About the dealerships, Ill give you that, they do suck....
06-13-2011, 04:03 PM
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I don't understand fuel consumption complaints. It's a sports car, it's not going to get great gas mileage. What other car can/do you run around in at redline and get god gas mileage in?
06-13-2011, 04:38 PM
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Mr.ThunderMakeR pretty summed it up. I know quite a few people (just locally) that owned Series I Rx-8's that now have Series II RX-8's and they have been problem free. Also, I am on this site a lot and honestly I have only seen a few problems with Series II cars and mostly they have been minor issues with bluetooth, seats, etc.
OP,
I do feel your pain. My Rx8 will be 8 years old next month and she had just about every problem the RX-8 could have in her 126,000 mile lifetime. But, I stuck with her and I love her dearly. I could go on and on about the problems and some of them do have permanent fixes but these days I try and concentrate on what has held up well (paint, body panels,interior, suspension, rear end, transmission) after seven years and how the car still drives like a dream after 126,000 miles of hard use in South Texas.
OP,
I do feel your pain. My Rx8 will be 8 years old next month and she had just about every problem the RX-8 could have in her 126,000 mile lifetime. But, I stuck with her and I love her dearly. I could go on and on about the problems and some of them do have permanent fixes but these days I try and concentrate on what has held up well (paint, body panels,interior, suspension, rear end, transmission) after seven years and how the car still drives like a dream after 126,000 miles of hard use in South Texas.
06-13-2011, 04:52 PM
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OP you have to remember the fact that Mazda is the only carmaker with the wankel in production actually hurts it. You hae to think that there are thousands of production cars out there today (being produced today) with R&D going into the piston engines fixing the bugs on those. There is only one car being produced today with the wankel and R&D going into the rotary. So obviously the piston engines are going to be more advanced and quite frankly I am surprised at how advanced the rotary is today since so few cars have had it in it. Can you imagine how advanced the rotor would be today if it sold as much as the piston engine?
06-13-2011, 06:47 PM
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We drive a true Exotic that is still in it's infancy......it's changed a lot since my first. The size has changed fractionally but the power has more than doubled and the fuel economy has improved at the same time. Mazda builds the car around the rotary and sure we would all love more power and it will come. People drive in my car and say how can I like the ride? My Wife says "There's a Butt for every seat". The Rotary is not for everybody and I understand because their passion is not the same as ours.
06-13-2011, 08:46 PM
#17
My car has not had a single problem (other than tail light water that takes 3 1/2 minutes to fix) and I have had it from 55K to 93K. I know people with civics that have issues (a/c stops, clutch, belts/timing...ect.). It all just depends on how well you maintain your car and how lucky you are.
Also I was under the impression that the motor was the only Japanese Mazda part on the car and the rest was Ford. I may be wrong.
Finally I just want to know, why would you buy a car that is performance based as a daily driver? I am but that's just because I have no regard for practicality and I can also do a lot of my own work on the car. Just get one of those extended warrantees that covers all this and enjoy the car.
Also I was under the impression that the motor was the only Japanese Mazda part on the car and the rest was Ford. I may be wrong.
Finally I just want to know, why would you buy a car that is performance based as a daily driver? I am but that's just because I have no regard for practicality and I can also do a lot of my own work on the car. Just get one of those extended warrantees that covers all this and enjoy the car.
06-13-2011, 10:38 PM
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Most of your complaints seem pretty minor. You can't expect cars in the 20k-30k price range to be flawless, especially a sports car. Compromises are made in certain areas to achieve the low price and thats typically where these minor issues come from. You would be hard pressed to find a new car that doesn't have some sort of minor issues/recalls in this price range. Go read other car forums, they all have some sort of common issues to read about. Sure there are more reliable cars in the price range, but they likely dont have the same level of performance/sportiness. Its a tradeoff, you have to decide whats more important to you.
The engine problems, you're right those were out-of-the-norm. But you didnt have that problem. And S2's aren't having those issues (unlike what you said), so Mazda has worked to resolve them. In fact I haven't had any issues with my S2 in over 1.5 years and 15k miles.
About the dealerships, Ill give you that, they do suck....
The engine problems, you're right those were out-of-the-norm. But you didnt have that problem. And S2's aren't having those issues (unlike what you said), so Mazda has worked to resolve them. In fact I haven't had any issues with my S2 in over 1.5 years and 15k miles.
About the dealerships, Ill give you that, they do suck....
06-13-2011, 10:45 PM
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My car has not had a single problem (other than tail light water that takes 3 1/2 minutes to fix) and I have had it from 55K to 93K. I know people with civics that have issues (a/c stops, clutch, belts/timing...ect.). It all just depends on how well you maintain your car and how lucky you are.
Also I was under the impression that the motor was the only Japanese Mazda part on the car and the rest was Ford. I may be wrong.
Finally I just want to know, why would you buy a car that is performance based as a daily driver? I am but that's just because I have no regard for practicality and I can also do a lot of my own work on the car. Just get one of those extended warrantees that covers all this and enjoy the car.
Also I was under the impression that the motor was the only Japanese Mazda part on the car and the rest was Ford. I may be wrong.
Finally I just want to know, why would you buy a car that is performance based as a daily driver? I am but that's just because I have no regard for practicality and I can also do a lot of my own work on the car. Just get one of those extended warrantees that covers all this and enjoy the car.
06-13-2011, 10:47 PM
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Props to the OP from me. This is one of the few "wall of texts" I DID read simply because it was paragraphed properly.
To address your post, OP, I get where you're coming from. There are some fitnment issues that bother me, like the creaking of the door panels and various trim pieces that annoy me; however, for me, the driving experience just dominates everything.
tl;dr - props for writing english properly. Driving experience > all, for me.
To address your post, OP, I get where you're coming from. There are some fitnment issues that bother me, like the creaking of the door panels and various trim pieces that annoy me; however, for me, the driving experience just dominates everything.
tl;dr - props for writing english properly. Driving experience > all, for me.
06-13-2011, 10:56 PM
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True, the Wankel spins like a top but the 370Z gets ~ 26/highway, the 335i ~28/highway. Heck even the FD which was a more powerful car got ~25/highway.
06-13-2011, 11:01 PM
#22
It wasn't meant to be a daily driver, my friend. It was meant to be a "weekend" "look at me" car. My daily was a Probe GT until it got totaled by an idiot who was reading a book and driving at the same time. Things happen and the 8 became the daily driver. But the thing is, I don't drive it hundreds of miles a day only about 20.
06-13-2011, 11:09 PM
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I'm pretty sure that's only because the mpg rating system was different in the 90's. The FD wouldn't get 25mpg in today's ratings..rotaries are just not fuel efficient (yet).
06-13-2011, 11:29 PM
#24
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